newsbuff

Uhh, yeah, that's not real....

As I read the IA about the 4th alarm with maydays in the Bronx yesterday (thanks ryang), I am confronted with strong concerns and reservations about how that would happen anywhere in the suburbs. This is not a paid/volunteer issue. This is a major incident response issue because no matter what your pay status, we've cultivated a recipe for failure in this region with absolutely no standardization, abysmal leadership/management training programs and experience levels, and no means to effectively coordinate the response.
Some are probably already cracking their knuckles and gearing up for a keyboard battle but before you do, take a deep breath and let me finish my thought.
Yesterday in the Bronx, a fire in ordinary buildings that we have all over our suburbs, resulted in the initial response of more than 40 "interior" (and I hate that distinction but more on that later) firefighters (4 E, 1 S, 3 L, 1 BC, S/C 1/1, plus 10-75 response). How many of our departments can honestly say we can put that many qualified, trained, and equipped FF on the road in the first three minutes?
Within five minutes, the 2nd alarm results in another TWO DOZEN fully equipped FF responding. All from the same agency, with the same training, SOP's, equipment, and leadership. Wow, who can beat that?
SIXTY-FIVE fully qualifed FF in five minutes with an appropriate span of control and properly trained supervisors for each resource. Imagine that?
I'm sure that some will argue that you don't need 65 FF for a job like that and they can do it in their agency with far fewer resources but my point is wouldn't it be nice to know that you have that many qualified guys at your disposal in a staging area a few blocks away and not 20 minutes and a dozen dispatches later?
Now, the other shoe drops. With all those resources already on scene and operating. With several highly experienced and qualified chiefs running the show, there's a collapse and multiple maydays.
What would you do as the IC?
What would you do as the attack officer supervising the missing FF?
Do you have training for that scenario?
Do you have a pre-plan for that?
Are there SOP's for the actions of everyone on the fireground when it does happen (and regrettably it will happen)?
In the Bronx, it resulted in the response of another SEVENTY-FIVE firefighters/company officers with at least another half dozen very experienced chief officers and support resources up the wazoo.
All this was coordinated by the County communications center (FDNY Bronx Radio). It wasn't the local police desk trying to coordinate all the requests from the field while answering the switchboard and trying to dispatch seventy different resources. It wasn't a dozen different PSAP's all doing it their own way. It was part of a plan! (Some will undoubtedly argue that it isn't a good plan or it is overkill or whatever but my point is there is a plan and a standardized response!).
The chief officers that handled this fire probably have at least 12-15 years of experience as an officer backed up and supported by alot of training, drills and exercises. (FDNY has one of the elaborate exercise programs I've ever seen).
What do we have?
What do we require of our officers?
How do we get them the experience they need for this type of incident?
How experienced are they?
Are there any SOP's so dispatch knows what to do when the mayday is transmitted?
The FDNY response and resources is without question unique but how would we handle this kind of response? In a simple 3 story frame house fire that spread to similar exposures. This wasn't a high-rise. This wasn't a big factory. This was a row of buildings like almost any town in the Hudson Valley, Fairfield, or north Jersey.
It's time to stop the petty bickering and organize. If we won't consolidate we should at least agree on training, equipment, and response policies so when the other shoe drops on you there's a fighting chance for the trapped members!!!
It's 2012. The time for 90+ different dispatch points in Westchester is long gone We need a single coordinated 911 center for police fire and EMS in every county with properly trained professional 911 call-takers and dispatchers doing their jobs.
Put the ego and attitide and bravado aside and start lobbying for what is best for not just now but the future!

It is a shame that no where in this article is this individual identified as a VOLUNTEER Firefighter. I am working to have that corrected.
The issue of reckless driving is much more prevalent in the Volunteer Fire Service than on the career side. This is not to say that there haven't been instances of career Firefighters driving recklessly. However, the overwhelming majority of these instances are on the volunteer side. That is something that the public should be aware of so that those who are served by career departments are not overly concerned and so that perhaps pressure may be brought to resolve this recurring problem with volunteer firefighters which has cost many lives and injuries.

IMO i believe they are aware of them, but choose not to use them for the fear of not having "total control" over "their scene." From the outside it would almost appear to be some kind of little man syndrome that haunts them. While this is not true for some depts in the county, it is for quite a few.

The sense of entitlement and self importance expressed by many of the posters on this thread is, unfortunately, not surprising. We are public servants, not the other way around guys. A fair days pay for a fair days work. Or, in the case of volunteers- volunteer, which means to do something with no expectation of compensation.
In my opinion. if there is a clearly advertised "deal" or "discount" for Fire / EMS / Police, go ahead and take it. If you need to ask for it, or persuade (aka intimidate, embarass or coerce) someone to give it to you, you have demeaned yourself and discredited your profession.
It is heartening to see from reading this thread that I am not alone in my feelings on this.

When you possess the knowledge to help a situation either through intervention or providing HELPFUL information to responding parties your position as a passenger changes to responder, and for that your fare has already been paid for through hundreds of hours of training and experience. In many cases the hours of experience is in the ten's of thousands. If you look at the ridership on the train, I can guarantee you that when it hits the fan you will see about 99.9% of the riders heading in the right direction, you need those of us who would be heading in the opposite direction there, especially if it is you that needs it.

There are 3 tank cars total the fire brigade has. All have 10,000 gallons of water and high volume pumps. They are kept in Harmon, Brewster and Stanford. The key with these tank cars is to request them as soon as you think you may need them. Keep in mind the crew has to hitch these up and they have a daily inspection before they go out on the rail so it could take a little while

Date:4/10/12
Time: 22:22
Location: 45 Riverview St. Martin's Trailer Park
Units Operating:
Verplanck: 2491, 2492, 2493, E128, E126, 83B1
Montrose: E121(standby)
Buchanan: U12(standby)
Cortlandt VAC: 8811, 88B2
Peekskill: 39M1, 39M2
Westchester: C&O Zone 4
Description Of Incident: Active trailer fire in a trailer park
22:22 Dispatch for Verplanck with Tri-Village for possible fire
22:27 2493 reporting working trailer fire in Martin's Trailer Park
22:28 2491 request an expedite on EMS
22:29 2491 request Mutual Aid EMS for a burn victim with smoke inhalation
22:42 83B1 enroute to HVHC with 1 female ALS with 39M1 & 39M2 onboard
22:43 2491 advising fire is k/d, Request C&O
Reporter: newsbuff, PEMO3
All times Approx.

Date:4/10/12
Time: 22:22
Location: 45 Riverview St. Martin's Trailer Park
Units Operating:
Verplanck: 2491, 2492, 2493, E128, E126, 83B1
Montrose: E121(standby)
Buchanan: U12(standby)
Cortlandt VAC: 8811, 88B2
Peekskill: 39M1, 39M2
Westchester: C&O Zone 4
Description Of Incident: Active trailer fire in a trailer park
22:22 Dispatch for Verplanck with Tri-Village for possible fire
22:27 2493 reporting working trailer fire in Martin's Trailer Park
22:28 2491 request an expedite on EMS
22:29 2491 request Mutual Aid EMS for a burn victim with smoke inhalation
22:42 83B1 enroute to HVHC with 1 female ALS with 39M1 & 39M2 onboard
22:43 2491 advising fire is k/d, Request C&O
Reporter: newsbuff, PEMO3
All times Approx.

Date:4/10/12
Time: 22:22
Location: 45 Riverview St. Martin's Trailer Park
Units Operating:
Verplanck: 2491, 2492, 2493, E128, E126, 83B1
Montrose: E121(standby)
Buchanan: U12(standby)
Cortlandt VAC: 8811, 88B2
Peekskill: 39M1, 39M2
Westchester: C&O Zone 4
Description Of Incident: Active trailer fire in a trailer park
22:22 Dispatch for Verplanck with Tri-Village for possible fire
22:27 2493 reporting working trailer fire in Martin's Trailer Park
22:28 2491 request an expedite on EMS
22:29 2491 request Mutual Aid EMS for a burn victim with smoke inhalation
22:42 83B1 enroute to HVHC with 1 female ALS with 39M1 & 39M2 onboard
22:43 2491 advising fire is k/d, Request C&O
Reporter: newsbuff, PEMO3
All times Approx.

Date:4/10/12
Time: 22:22
Location: 45 Riverview St. Martin's Trailer Park
Units Operating:
Verplanck: 2491, 2492, 2493, E128, E126, 83B1
Montrose: E121(standby)
Buchanan: U12(standby)
Cortlandt VAC: 8811, 88B2
Peekskill: 39M1, 39M2
Westchester: C&O Zone 4
Description Of Incident: Active trailer fire in a trailer park
22:22 Dispatch for Verplanck with Tri-Village for possible fire
22:27 2493 reporting working trailer fire in Martin's Trailer Park
22:28 2491 request an expedite on EMS
22:29 2491 request Mutual Aid EMS for a burn victim with smoke inhalation
22:42 83B1 enroute to HVHC with 1 female ALS with 39M1 & 39M2 onboard
22:43 2491 advising fire is k/d, Request C&O
Reporter: newsbuff, PEMO3
All times Approx.

Go to the 1:20 mark.
Watched this, and immediately thought of that Armonk car fire video.
ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PPE, because you just don't know what might happen next.

Go to the 1:20 mark.
Watched this, and immediately thought of that Armonk car fire video.
ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PPE, because you just don't know what might happen next.

Date:3/27/2012
Time: 13:15
Location: 1646 Wenonah Trail, Mohegan Lake
Frequency: Multiple
Units Operating:
Mohegan: L35, E252, E253, 2261, 2262, 2268, 226-38
Mohegan VAC: 69B1
Yorktown: R16, 2533
Peekskill: R134 FAST
Buchanan: U12, 2551
Westchester: Batallion 17
American Red Cross
Weather Conditions: Sunny, Cold
Description Of Incident: Working fire in the basement of a 2 story, 20X30 wood frame house.
Reporters: newsbuff, 99subi, drgripsthrowawaytowel
Writer: newsbuff
13:15 L35, E252, E253 dispatched
13:20 226-38 o/s reporting a working fire, 10-75.
13:20 Mohegan VAC, Yorktown FAST, BAT17 dispatched
13:20 L35, E252, 2268 o/s
13:23 Request Con-Ed
13:25 Per 2533, unable to assemble FAST, could could fill a different company, if the IC needed.
13:35 Peekskill FAST Dispatched
13:36 69B2 responding
13:41 Per command, 20x30 2 story wood frame, heavy fire in the basement, 2 L/S/O
14:04 Per command, fire extension to the attic
14:29 Per BAT17, fire K/D
14:42 Per 2261, situation u/c
15:24 Pert BAT17, all mutual aid in service, command turned over to 2261.
Any further, Please PM

Date:3/27/2012
Time: 13:15
Location: 1646 Wenonah Trail, Mohegan Lake
Frequency: Multiple
Units Operating:
Mohegan: L35, E252, E253, 2261, 2262, 2268, 226-38
Mohegan VAC: 69B1
Yorktown: R16, 2533
Peekskill: R134 FAST
Buchanan: U12, 2551
Westchester: Batallion 17
American Red Cross
Weather Conditions: Sunny, Cold
Description Of Incident: Working fire in the basement of a 2 story, 20X30 wood frame house.
Reporters: newsbuff, 99subi, drgripsthrowawaytowel
Writer: newsbuff
13:15 L35, E252, E253 dispatched
13:20 226-38 o/s reporting a working fire, 10-75.
13:20 Mohegan VAC, Yorktown FAST, BAT17 dispatched
13:20 L35, E252, 2268 o/s
13:23 Request Con-Ed
13:25 Per 2533, unable to assemble FAST, could could fill a different company, if the IC needed.
13:35 Peekskill FAST Dispatched
13:36 69B2 responding
13:41 Per command, 20x30 2 story wood frame, heavy fire in the basement, 2 L/S/O
14:04 Per command, fire extension to the attic
14:29 Per BAT17, fire K/D
14:42 Per 2261, situation u/c
15:24 Pert BAT17, all mutual aid in service, command turned over to 2261.
Any further, Please PM

Only hiring full-time right now.

Jumper cables cost $20. Vehicle wiring harnesses are what we are talking about. Big difference.

Yeah that video has been making its rounds, but I'm gonna give them credit where credit is due.
I hate parades and taking apparatus and members out of service for one, but that is a topic for another day. These guys fought that from a distance, didn't try to go up to the truck and pop the hood, but just lobbed water onto it. During that video, I didn't see them get engulfed by smoke or steam, and were always a full lane between them and the truck. What happened after the video ended, who knows, maybe they did just waltz up to the truck and go at it from there, in dresses.
The difference between this video and the one about Armonk, Armonk was dispatched to that fire and that's what they showed up with, these guys were just flagged down. Should you be ready for anything at any time, absolutely, but these were two completely different circumstances.

Yeah that video has been making its rounds, but I'm gonna give them credit where credit is due.
I hate parades and taking apparatus and members out of service for one, but that is a topic for another day. These guys fought that from a distance, didn't try to go up to the truck and pop the hood, but just lobbed water onto it. During that video, I didn't see them get engulfed by smoke or steam, and were always a full lane between them and the truck. What happened after the video ended, who knows, maybe they did just waltz up to the truck and go at it from there, in dresses.
The difference between this video and the one about Armonk, Armonk was dispatched to that fire and that's what they showed up with, these guys were just flagged down. Should you be ready for anything at any time, absolutely, but these were two completely different circumstances.

Yeah that video has been making its rounds, but I'm gonna give them credit where credit is due.
I hate parades and taking apparatus and members out of service for one, but that is a topic for another day. These guys fought that from a distance, didn't try to go up to the truck and pop the hood, but just lobbed water onto it. During that video, I didn't see them get engulfed by smoke or steam, and were always a full lane between them and the truck. What happened after the video ended, who knows, maybe they did just waltz up to the truck and go at it from there, in dresses.
The difference between this video and the one about Armonk, Armonk was dispatched to that fire and that's what they showed up with, these guys were just flagged down. Should you be ready for anything at any time, absolutely, but these were two completely different circumstances.

Just a great response from all involved.
Assuming the people recording had already called 911, a 6+ minute response time with just one firefighter Officer is just fantastic! And for that other guy to just jump on into the smoke and flames with his obvious department issued Dickies pants and shirt, which of course are both commonly accepted PPE. Just a great job all around.

Just a great response from all involved.
Assuming the people recording had already called 911, a 6+ minute response time with just one firefighter Officer is just fantastic! And for that other guy to just jump on into the smoke and flames with his obvious department issued Dickies pants and shirt, which of course are both commonly accepted PPE. Just a great job all around.

Just a great response from all involved.
Assuming the people recording had already called 911, a 6+ minute response time with just one firefighter Officer is just fantastic! And for that other guy to just jump on into the smoke and flames with his obvious department issued Dickies pants and shirt, which of course are both commonly accepted PPE. Just a great job all around.

Just a great response from all involved.
Assuming the people recording had already called 911, a 6+ minute response time with just one firefighter Officer is just fantastic! And for that other guy to just jump on into the smoke and flames with his obvious department issued Dickies pants and shirt, which of course are both commonly accepted PPE. Just a great job all around.

Just a great response from all involved.
Assuming the people recording had already called 911, a 6+ minute response time with just one firefighter Officer is just fantastic! And for that other guy to just jump on into the smoke and flames with his obvious department issued Dickies pants and shirt, which of course are both commonly accepted PPE. Just a great job all around.