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Have you actually been on enough emergency scenes where this Aviation group operated to be able to honestly make that statement?

This is not about FDNY and volunteers. This is about Aviation and only Aviation. After 9/11 the shut down. They stopped responding and dissolved their membership. A few members got together and created some "emergency response" group that other than buffing fires and posting on FB have no official recognition or affiliation. This group then suddenly and on their own have reestablished Aviation. Would any dept allow a group of residents to purchase a vehicle and start responding within their district? This isn't the FDNY stepping on volleys, this is a bunch of people deciding one day they want to start buffing jobs and operating.

Have you actually been on enough emergency scenes where this Aviation group operated to be able to honestly make that statement?

Have you actually been on enough emergency scenes where this Aviation group operated to be able to honestly make that statement?

So from what I gather, it would be fine with you if these 'Aviation' guys leave NYC and start operating in your VFD's district instead?

Do you really believe that statement? Do you really believe that the vollies in the city are better trained than the FDNY? Come on now. That may be one of the most ridiculous statements made here and yes you are entitled to your opinion. And as for your last statement I ask.......
Your not?

So from what I gather, it would be fine with you if these 'Aviation' guys leave NYC and start operating in your VFD's district instead?

Ahh to be young and naive. I might be young too, but I know that there is a huge difference between what OFPC's recommends on volunteer training (remember NYS is a home rule state, so FF1 is not required), and FDNY's career academy. The volunteers do not go through the FDNY academy, which would make is almost impossible for them to fit seamlessly into the FDNY's operations. The last thing the FDNY is worried about, are these volunteer companies taking away their jobs. They're worried that their standards and training requirements are not kept up as adequately as the FDNY's, which could endanger the lives of the citizens and responders even more. They "pick on them" because the fail to produce training requirements, or certificates of their members to the FDNY to show that they are all adequately trained.
Everyone might love cake, but that doesn't mean cake is good for you.

It is a tragic situation agreed there is a slight chance that what the public dose seals the fate of the fires we are trained to combat. I believe instead of faulting the public for not knowing we as firefighters need to educate and get it out there to leave things to the trained people. Personally besides the public lots of times I believe law enforcement needs the education also so the instinct to help dose not hinder the job that needs to be done. But no matter what I do not believe faulting them is not the answer educating them is what needs to be done.

Agreed INIT. I am not trying to crucify these people, but lets be honest, as I said before, do you think John Q Public would run into an active hostage situation or an armed bank robbery and try and help out? Chances are not. People don't view fire the same way.
Ignorance/lack of knowledge is a dangerous thing, just as fire is.
People who THINK they have knowledge is probably even more dangerous.

I wonder if those "good samaritans" who broke down a door helped seal the fate. Immediately after breaking down a door, there was a "burst of flames in the rear side of the home and they had to move away"... Hmmmmmm... Sounds like an introduction of fresh air....
Without the proper training and equipment, its just asinie. We all know what improperly timed ventilation does...
That's why these things should be left to the professionals... Remember the other year when a "good samaritan" broke out all the windows to a house where a woman was trapped (East Dorsey Ln in Fairview) and she died?? Sound familiar???
No good deed goes unpunished....

I thought this guy asked for ADVICE, not if we worked for the FDNY or not. I guess my expertise came in with giving ADVICE to many others to get on several career fire depts, INCLUDING the FDNY. Maybe you can go to www.ctfire-ems.com and look up what was written about a year or two ago on a thread called "I'm Proud of Them". It tells there, just some of the people that followed the ADVICE of myself and a few others. And by the way, I believe one of those now a career firefighter with the FDNY Special Ops.
I'm sorry for just trying to help. I wasn't aware that he was only interested in responses from FDNY members. And by the way, I am a full supporter of the FDNY and the FDNY EMS. Read some of my hundreds of posts over the last few years on this and other web sites.

Interesting about the handling. Is it a steering system issue or rear suspension issue? Hopefully that easily corrected. As I've heard, 32 has since been repaired and is functioning properly. Aerial has been used a job or two. That new emissions stuff is a major issue. It takes a lot of room from the officer's seating area and the short trips that we often make don't allow for proper functioning of the new filter systems. Why is it that we can't be an exception to the new emissions rule?

The name on the front doesn't so much matter. The materials chosen for the build, as well as the internal components (engine, trans., pumps, ect. ect), are all spec'd by the FDNY. Whomever builds the rig would use these same components.
As for the rest of your question; I don't think anyone here (unless there is a Shops foreman floating around here) is qualified to answer the question of what's been going wrong with the new rigs. No one really knows. All that we know is that only a handful of the new rear-mounts have been placed in service while the rest seem to have been held up. Those are the only facts available. The RUMOR is that there are a few electrical and fine tuning issues that they'd like to work out before they deliver the rest. Seems reasonable to me. Rescue 4 has had a new rig for months and it has been relatively problem free. The rest of the rescues have yet to have the new rig fully in service. Rescue 3's new rig was used by the company at the funeral for Lt. DiBernardo. Clearly it was thought to be functional enough to be driven to that service and back and I'm sure no one would want a silly apparatus issue at an incredibly sad and important day.
The bottom line is: These are new rigs. They're a fresh design from the ground up, being built by a manufactururer with only a little NYC experience. There will be some issues that need to be worked out, but I'm sure everything will turn out fine once the bugs are fixed up. Or maybe they won't.....take a look at the service record of Seagrave TL's delivered during the middle of the last decade....LEMONS!

BNechis, I respect your experience and seemingly endless knowledge regarding policies, procedures, and emergency service operations, so this is absolutely nothing personal on my part, plus you weren't the only one to questionably comment his actions, but...
I agree with your statement that this forum is an educational "tool", and I have always been a big advocate of EMTBravo being an invaluable resource to learn from others. But you're initial post was not educational per-se, it was basically defamatory, full of statements that questioned this officers actions. Where is the educational value in asking rhetorical questions? It's one thing to give the officer his kudos for getting the job done, without any injury to himself, as well as further injury to the aided, and then educating the rest of us on some of the safety measures we should ensure we take at these incidents. That's educational. Ignoring the good job that was done, and posing several "well did he do this" and "did he do that" questions does not come across as educational. Maybe in the future, we can ensure that news reporters ask the first responder if the bus was put in park first and emergency brake applied before so we can further evaluate if a proper hazard analysis was conducted.
Emergency service courses teach lots of techniques, with a major emphasis on safety, and rightfully so. And based on certain situations, while the textbook scenario is ideally what we should follow, sometimes we, as first responders, make concessions after doing a risk vs. benefit analysis and do things at times that the textbook doesn't advocate. See, I didn't see you question, for educational value of course, when an off-duty FDNY firefighter ran into an structure fire to conduct a rescue of an occupant without the proper PPE. No one questioned it; we simply commended him on a job well done, and rightfully so. But I did see you start posting questions and comments when a similiar topic was posted here regarding a police officer who did the exact same thing, with the exact same positive outcome. What about the rope rescue FDNY conducted back in 1991 in Times Square where a firefighter was lowered with a rescue rope that was anchored off to other firefighters and violated numerous safety measures. Should we sit here and point out everything that was done questionably for eduational value, or commend them for a job well done in the face of the dangers that they faced? I am not in any way knocking the FDNY member who conducted this rescue, I think what he did was amazing, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for his actions that day. The list goes on and on of incidents where emergency service providers have taken part in rescues that did not necessarily follow the textbook. When we can follow the textbook, we definitely should. Safety guidelines are meant to protect our victims, and more importantly, to protect us. But, unless something was done that was so egregious, so unnecessary, so stupid as to endanger our other first responders, our victim, or ourselves, let's give credit where credit is due for doing a good job, while also educating the rest of us on how the textbook says we should do it.
In regards to awareness level training for Police Officers and EMS providers related to technical rescue and hazardous materials... there pretty much is none. I'm a big advocate for training, especially awareness level training for front line responders so they can adequately identify and potentially mitigate certain hazards at such incidents, but for whatever reason, this type of training is simply not conducted in this area. Part of the problem is a lack of interest from these groups to receive the training, and part of the problem is the fact that PD and EMS are typically "shut-out" from any type of training related to technical rescue and/or hazardous materials.

Since I am the only one who questioned the risk assessment, instead of saying "individuals on here" you can just say me.
At numerious heavy extrication courses, it is tought to never go under a bus until it is properly cribbed. I have witnessed busses in the shops drop unexpectantly.
I dont think this is nitpicking, I thnk this is a forum to learn from others actions, both the good and the bad. If no one questions, what is routinly tought as an unsafe action then many readers here might consider this the proper action at an incident.
So here is a question for all responders:
Does your initial training, inserves training or at least your policies/procedures instruct you in the hazards of the following type of incidents:
1)heavy trucks/busses
2)trains
3)Trenches & collapses
4)building collapse
5) machinery extrications, including elevators
6) hazmat
Now I know which of these are covered in the carreer fire acadamy, but how many are covered in police training and EMS training?

What sad news this morning. Worcester, Mass. IAFF Local 1009. We all bear witness once again to them getting hit hard. And news of our Brother lost this morning from Mount Vernon. December 8, 2011. Suddenly another infamous date. While we all commiserate here on the site, waiting for news.....a name....mornings like this one always bring you back full circle to other similar mornings.....
Today feels like....The Father's Day Fire.
Black Sunday.
Manlius, New York.
It's hard to make sense out of these days. Why?
It reminds me that the career fire service in America is actually not all that huge; and how we are all entwined together with a culture created and passed down through generations of firemen.
I cannot help but to think of the outpouring of respect that will be shown for these Brothers. I cannot help but to think of the absolute devastation that has occurred to two separate families this December morning. The trying days...months...years now put before families who only last evening had holiday plans in the works. Christmas forever changed for a lot of people in an instant.
In 2002 I traveled to Colorado Springs to pay respects at the IAFF National Memorial, hosted by IAFF Local 5, Colorado Springs Firefighters. The day before the Remembrance, I had a rented Toyota Four Runner, and decided to drive to the top of Pikes Peak. The Service the next day would be right in front of this mountain, where the Memorial is located.
When I reached the top after a couple of hours drive, standing there in the parking lot of the lodge I recognized the President of Local 1009. "Hey Worcester" I called out.
"Hey, how's it going?" the President of 1009 replied. "You want a beer?"
And so we shared a brew at 14,000 feet and spoke quietly amoungst ourselves.
The irony was not lost on me that there were six Brothers from 1009 standing there.
And now two more names will be chiseled into the face of that black wall out in Colorado Springs. In the shadow of Pikes Peak, surrounded by beauty, yet carved from tragedy.
Once again, Worcester Brothers will make the solemn journey, and this time our Brothers from Mount Vernon will accompany them.
So Rest now...jobs well done, the Lord has called you home.

Just saw this article in the NY Post, http://m.nypost.com/;s=qVpxiLsb__qTiqftAmOF914/p/news/local/bravest_gush_hour_VklxrQTpx6GyHTduvnhSWK NYPD responding to a call were outnumbered and being attacked by an unruly mob when the crew from Eng 158 used their deck gun to get the crowd to back up. I dont work in Staten Island, but want to extend a thank you. Unfortunately more and more PD units are running short handed, leading to long response times and less back up. My district in the Bronx routinely turns out 1 sector car per tour, and when it hits,the fan, back up seemed like it took for ever, now it does

Nice job by the Firefighters at 158 Engine ... I hope the Police Officers who were attacked are okay ... It remains to be seen what the locals will do to retaliate against the F.D.N.Y ...

Nice job by the Firefighters at 158 Engine ... I hope the Police Officers who were attacked are okay ... It remains to be seen what the locals will do to retaliate against the F.D.N.Y ...

Nice job by the Firefighters at 158 Engine ... I hope the Police Officers who were attacked are okay ... It remains to be seen what the locals will do to retaliate against the F.D.N.Y ...