Dinosaur

They need to stop robbing peter to pay paul and just add more resources to the entire system!

Ridiculous! Wait until summertime!

They need to stop robbing peter to pay paul and just add more resources to the entire system!

Ridiculous! Wait until summertime!

 
 
There's no allotment of paramedics in Westchester.  Every little town, village, city, district chooses whether or not they will provide ALS and to what level.  Further, they dictate the response policies that will be followed. 

To not have a comprehensive EMS system in 2016 in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation is pathetic and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.  I could add the same about the fire service but that's for another thread!
 
 

 
Hopefully a safe following distance.

 
 
That doesn't seem too far off at all.  Sadly, we don't perpetuate the greatest public image with multi-agency, tiered responses that result in a dozen people showing up in 5 different vehicles but no ambulance.
 
 

 
Hopefully a safe following distance.

 
 
There's no allotment of paramedics in Westchester.  Every little town, village, city, district chooses whether or not they will provide ALS and to what level.  Further, they dictate the response policies that will be followed. 

To not have a comprehensive EMS system in 2016 in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation is pathetic and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.  I could add the same about the fire service but that's for another thread!
 
 

 
There aren't enough firefighters in Harrison already.  Now giving them double duty further dilutes their strength so you wind up with nobody for a fire engine or nobody for an ambulance. 

In this case, there's nothing to be gained by trying that.

 
The one Hall of Fame that no one wants to be inducted to! May the inductees be few! 

First and foremost, the incident, and the outcome, sucks.  I do not believe anything anyone did or tried to do last night would have made a difference.
 
Going back a few years, maybe 2009-2010, a Response Plan was developed by the "Westchester Marine Emergency Response Association" along with Westchester County Department of Emergency Services.  That plan basically called for a three-tiered response to all Hudson River incidents, meaning the area of jurisdiction - as well as the next closest agency to the north and south - would be dispatched.
 
From a MOS standpoint with my FD, this is an "OK at best" approach.  During my time as Chief we modified this to include Rockland units, since many incidents happen to fall on or beyond that imaginary line that divides Westchester & Rockland.  At the time, according to this "plan" we attempted to utilize Marine 22 (I think) as a radio channel for all FD, PD, etc. vessels to communicate during river operations.  When we had a river incident that fell under our Command, we always tried to steer everyone on to this channel, since we should all have this capability.  I could be wrong but this sticks out in my memory, and it was designated to keep Marine 16 open for emergency traffic.
 
Last night's incident is just another reminder that when someone dials 911 from a cell phone, it's truly a crapshoot as to where they really are vs. where they think they are.  And this doesn't just apply to waterways - a lot of cellular 911 calls for land based incidents require some searching to find them.  Because of this, it highlights the benefit of starting out resources from different angles.
 
Since Rockland switched to their new radio system, communications on the river have suffered.  But there's no reason why the four counties (Westchester, Rockland, Putnam & Orange) can't develop a plan to always work off the VHF Marine radios.  Afterall, as boats, we should all have them and the signal is decent.  Command vehicles should also install this capability.
 
The frequency of incidents, and the complexity of them on the Hudson River is only going to increase the demand for our services.  There needs to be a standard of training for boat operators, crew members and people responding and playing command.  If EMS is getting on a boat, they need proper training too.  It's 2016 and the fact that the same stupid stuff continues to happen irritates me, because we should be well-trained, well-prepared and have pre-plans developed where we can all work together and provide a professional-level of service.  
 
The days of letting the first people to the dock get on the boat needs to end, and the Chiefs of all of these FDs with river response responsibilities need to work all of this out.
 
Additionally, I think it's time for the FDs that are going to be in the marine operations game to seriously look into grants to get the training we all need and the proper vessels to do what is needed.  We all can't stand around, holding our d**ks waiting on County PD or someone else to get there when someone's life is in the balance.
 
 
 

Let's be perfectly clear about this: the so called "logistical mess" was confined to the Westchester side of things last night.
 
Rockland units (Sheriff's marine unit, Stony Point FD marine unit, EMS on land) were all coordinated very well through 44-Control on Rockland's trunked system, including all involved agencies in direct communication on the Interop 1 talkgroup when necessary.  The Sheriff's marine unit was in constant contact with Coast Guard Sector NY on Marine 16, and also had direct contact with the tugboat.  They were also the first unit to board the vessel to provide aid. Stony Point's fire chief and marine unit were in direct and constant contact with the Sheriff's marine unit.
 
Notwithstanding the fact that the location was initially mis-reported and it took some time for the correct location to be determined (it happens, especially at night on the river), there were no issues otherwise with the Rockland side of things.
 
Note that this incident was on the Rockland shore, and that 44-Control notified 60-Control more or less as a courtesy than anything else.  Somehow, that turned into 60-Control dispatching just about every fire dept marine unit in the county, along with the WCPD marine unit.
 
Perhaps the real issue here is that it appears that Westchester units are allowed to self-dispatch, with no one actually managing resources. That does not happen in Rockland.  If 44-Control doesn't dispatch you, then you do not respond, plain and simple.
 
I was monitoring Fire 10 on the Westchester trunked system, and it was painful. You have a fire chief assuming command on the opposite shore 5 miles away from the actual incident? Really?
 
Next time maybe Rockland doesn't bother to notify Westchester at all when the incident is on the Rockland shore. If garbage like last night is the norm for Westchester, and no one can control the response, then just stay home.

EMS is the bastard step child that nobody ever acknowledges. Seth, you have been around long enough and have seen it numerous times. It's sad.

 
One of the best things NYS has done for the career fire service.  Otherwise we'd get very little training like that.
 
 

So is anyone aware of any truth to this?  Besides a Facebook rant and copied email from a HEMS insider, have there been any news reports, statements from the town or anything that suggests this is accurate?

It's the town's prerogative to contact for services within their borders so the notion that they don't have any right to review HEMS financial statements or discuss service(s) provided is nuts.  They provided $550,000 to the "VAC" this year so it's clear the town has a stake in it. 
 

 
If the FAA isn't giving DoD, federal agencies, law enforcement or commercial operators (read $$$) any leeway I doubt the FD will get any.  

I think you're talking about recreational users, not official users like FD.  FD's or other governmental entities need to have a COA - Certificate of Authorization.

Is it worth all the trouble just to get a picture from above?  Use a ladder, call a helicopter, or just figure it out.  Sometimes I think technology gets in the way of getting the job done.
 
 

So is anyone aware of any truth to this?  Besides a Facebook rant and copied email from a HEMS insider, have there been any news reports, statements from the town or anything that suggests this is accurate?

It's the town's prerogative to contact for services within their borders so the notion that they don't have any right to review HEMS financial statements or discuss service(s) provided is nuts.  They provided $550,000 to the "VAC" this year so it's clear the town has a stake in it. 
 

 
If the FAA isn't giving DoD, federal agencies, law enforcement or commercial operators (read $$$) any leeway I doubt the FD will get any.  

I think you're talking about recreational users, not official users like FD.  FD's or other governmental entities need to have a COA - Certificate of Authorization.

Is it worth all the trouble just to get a picture from above?  Use a ladder, call a helicopter, or just figure it out.  Sometimes I think technology gets in the way of getting the job done.
 
 

So is anyone aware of any truth to this?  Besides a Facebook rant and copied email from a HEMS insider, have there been any news reports, statements from the town or anything that suggests this is accurate?

It's the town's prerogative to contact for services within their borders so the notion that they don't have any right to review HEMS financial statements or discuss service(s) provided is nuts.  They provided $550,000 to the "VAC" this year so it's clear the town has a stake in it. 
 

So is anyone aware of any truth to this?  Besides a Facebook rant and copied email from a HEMS insider, have there been any news reports, statements from the town or anything that suggests this is accurate?

It's the town's prerogative to contact for services within their borders so the notion that they don't have any right to review HEMS financial statements or discuss service(s) provided is nuts.  They provided $550,000 to the "VAC" this year so it's clear the town has a stake in it. 
 

Not as simple as one may think to do it legally.  Attended a seminar in DC recently and they talked about the process to do it legally.  In Westchester it wouldn't be so simple due to all the airports and airspace and other obstacles.  It's all regulated by the FAA now. 

I don't think it's the expense. 

Not as simple as one may think to do it legally.  Attended a seminar in DC recently and they talked about the process to do it legally.  In Westchester it wouldn't be so simple due to all the airports and airspace and other obstacles.  It's all regulated by the FAA now. 

I don't think it's the expense. 

Not as simple as one may think to do it legally.  Attended a seminar in DC recently and they talked about the process to do it legally.  In Westchester it wouldn't be so simple due to all the airports and airspace and other obstacles.  It's all regulated by the FAA now. 

I don't think it's the expense. 

The town gives HEMS money, they have a right to look at the financials, especially one providing  a critical service to the town. If you accept money from the Town, then that's how it goes. If HEMS is confident in their finances, then there shouldn't be an issue right? You understand how that looks? I'm not trying to defend anyone or their actions, just trying to look at this objectively.
 
 
That's not how it works. The town would have to issue an RFP, Empress couldn't and wouldn't just give a "quote", and they haven't given Harrison anything.
 
And, if anyone remembers, Empress brought ALS to the Town Of Harrison and was the ALS provider for years.

What if the politics is compelling you to do it wrong and you're not able to implement change to do it right?  Do you suck it up and do it wrong or do you take a stand and adhere to your ethics and morals?
 

What if the politics is compelling you to do it wrong and you're not able to implement change to do it right?  Do you suck it up and do it wrong or do you take a stand and adhere to your ethics and morals?