Dinosaur

It ain't broke? Are you kidding? YOU pay my tax bill then.
This isn't beating a dead horse. We have a new governor and an entirely new climate toward public services ala Wisconsin. If you think that taxpayers aren't going to support consolidation you're crazy. Now more than ever these ideas are being discussed and you can either be part of the solution and help guide it so it works when they're done or you can be part of the problem and find yourself in a system on the outside looking in.

Take home cars have long been part of the perks offered as part of compensation in the corporate world, both public and private sectors. This is used as a bargaining chip to attempt to get the best canidate for the position.
Unfortunatly, in the volunteer fire world, this same perk is extended, HOWEVER, as we have seen ALL TOO OFTEN, THE BEST CANIDATE IS NOT ALWAYS THE CHOICE...FD elections are still a good old boy's popularity contest. (YET another topic for another thread, and one more instance where we can be our own worst enemy).
I feel the most obvious case of abuse is the Chief Car parked at a train station while the Chief is at his job. He obviously can NOT respond quickly to an incident, if at all. That should be concern for his district.

LETS FACE IT, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ABUSES. SINCE THE ECONOMY HAS TANKED EVERYONE CONNECTED WITH GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS IS UNDER THE MICROSCOPE.
I SEE THE SAME YONKERS DPW VEHICLE GOING NORTH ON THE TACONIC PARKWAY EVERY DAY AROUND 4PM, WHAT KIND OF SCAM DOES THIS GUY HAVE GOING ON?
THE COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC WORKS FOR THE TOWN OF NEW CASTLE HAS A TAKE HOME CAR, HE LIVES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HUDSON. WHY MUST WE AS TAXPAYERS FUND HIS TRANSPORTATION TO AND FROM WORK MONDAY THRU FRIDAY?
I HAVE SEEN A SCARSDALE DPW VEHICLE PLOWING OUT A DRIVEWAY IN YORKTOWN AN OBVIOUS CASE OF FRAUD AGAINST THE SCARSDALE TAXPAYERS.
I DON'T HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH A VOLLY FIRE CHIEF USING THE CHIEF'S CAR FOR PERSONAL BUSINESS AS LONG AS IT IS WITHIN REASON. AFTER ALL HE IS VOLUNTEERING HIS TIME AND IS OR SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO RESPOND TO EMERGENCIES WHEN EVER HE IS IN THE CAR. MOST FIRE DISTRICTS HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS REGARDING THE USE OF FIRE DEP'T VEHICLES.

And they hang the flag wrong to boot! :angry:

Slightly off topic but.....
What are the benefits of departments issuing vehicles to Chief's? Are there benefits or is it more of a "we have the money so why not" thing? There are a lot of departments that do not have Chiefs vehicles and the Chiefs use there personally owned vehicles. Departments seem to run/operate equally well with or without department issued Chief's vehicles.

In context, the author specifically states (emphasis added):
So, if I get flagged down for call 2 while responding to call 1 but get on the radio and inform my dispatcher and they assign call 1 to another unit (even if mutual aid), it is probably not going to be an issue.
Another situation highlighed by this article is if you're enroute to one call you can be redirected to a higher priority call. If we can (and should) do that according to priority dispatch systems you'll be hard pressed to make a case for abandonment or other wrong-doing when you encounter a patient while enroute to another.

This is a system problem and you have to consider why are all the ALS units tied up on BLS calls? Is it because there is no priority dispatching and medics go on everything? Is it because there aren't enough EMT's and the medic is serving as a BLS provider? Or is it because the system doesn't have enough ALS units for the call volume (if the existing medic units are tied up on BLS calls I'm guessing that this isn't the problem).
Cops are first responders too and I would like to hear a discussion about whether or not you could triage a low-priority BLS patient to them to await transport so you can respond to a higher priority job (interesting premise).
The EMT's "screaming for the medic" need to cut the umbilical cord and start being EMT's. Many of us remember when ALS was an urban novelty and not the standard of care. Back in those days EMT's took critical patients to the hospital and did... (wait for it)... BLS. Instead of screaming for a medic they should be an EMT and transport expeditiously. Hospitals are ALS providers too and the remotest part of Mount Pleasant isn't more than 10 minutes from 3 or 4 different ones.

Sometimes these calls have two crews (4 people) on one vehicle. In that case why can't you stop and drop one or two of them off until other help arrives? The other point I made is that you need to have and follow agency policy on this subject. Your agency has a policy on the subject but I'm willing to bet there are many many more that don't.
I agree that you can't stop and commit to treatment but you can stop and inform them that help is coming and at least inquire about the conditions. I just think driving by in a big billboard is bad public relations.
Great idea!

If you are flagged, you are flagged. That is now your patient. What if you were on scene at a skinned knee and hear a call go out across town for that confirmed arrest? You're still obligated to either transport or RMA that patient.
You have no legal liability in that case unless you were to delay notification that you were flagged. What if that CVA were actually Bells Palsy and your general malaise was a massive MI? You assessed the sick, blew it off as just being a sick and hurried on to the stroke. Now you are in trouble because YOU denied the sick definitive care in a timely manner. If you get into a wreck on the way to call, its not your fault the patient didn't get the ambulance. If you stop for a sandwich then it is your fault the patient didn't get their ambulance.
If you're transporting a patient then once again the patient you have is your priority. if they're stable feel free to get involved. If they're unstable document accordingly. Accurately describe the situation over the air. Continue on to the ER. If stopping will cause harm to the patient in the bus, you must continue to the ER.

Those agencies are long gone. They merged and became F U Ambulance Service and exist everywhere. Nothing like the medic running for his flycar before we even got inside the ER so he could jump on the hot call coming in.

This is an issue for the agency to handle. The liability here doesn't apply to the individual units as long as they're operating according to agency guidelines.

He lost a few days pay and spent several weeks on a patient care restriction because he was wrong. He may have also been reprimanded by the state but I'm not sure.
The gist of the argument was that because we really don't know what we have till we actually get there we have to treat the patient we have in front of is. If you're on scene with a booboo and you hear a cardiac arrest get dispatched a few block away can you just leave the booboo for the arrest? Thats the way the state looks at it. It doesn;t matter where you were going, you are now on scene with your patient.

If you read about the recent accounts of the exact same issues being faced by other areas within the United States, looking at County-Wide Consolisation of Fire, EMS, and Police Services, you will see that the Tax Payers are "Fed Up" with rising taxes and are "Forcing" Politicians to put aside their political affiliations with Unions and Other Groups, who have been and continue to be extremely opposed to any thought of consolidation of services, and have or are now strongly considering going the route of consolidation of services. Reading up on some of the things that Gov. Cuomo as well as County Administrator Asterino are looking at, "County-Wide" consolidation might be something that could happen sooner rather than later, despite the strong opposition by Union Leaders and Fire/Police/EMS Commissioners.
Yogi Berra might have said "It ain't over until the fat lady sings", but I think that the Taxpayers in Westchester County are singing "Loud and Clear" to the Goverenor, the County Administrator, and other politicians that they are fed up and can't pay anymore additional taxes and refuse to do so.
As I have said here before, seeing what has worked extremely well in both Baltimore County, Maryland and Gwinnett County, Georgia, both very similir to the demographics and geographics of Westchester County, all Fire, Police and EMS Services in each of these counties are consolidated and run by the COUNTY and not by any individual city, town or village, thus the same could also work across the entire County of Westchester.

It ain't broke? Are you kidding? YOU pay my tax bill then.
This isn't beating a dead horse. We have a new governor and an entirely new climate toward public services ala Wisconsin. If you think that taxpayers aren't going to support consolidation you're crazy. Now more than ever these ideas are being discussed and you can either be part of the solution and help guide it so it works when they're done or you can be part of the problem and find yourself in a system on the outside looking in.

This is something that I have discussed in the past, and honestly - IT BUGS THE CRAP OUT OF ME!
I DESPISE the notion that a Past Chief (whom I have ALL THE RESPECT for in the world, once a Chief, ALWAYS A CHIEF), is made a Deputy Chief...like mentioned above, why? Thanks for your time and service, but pass the torch. Let the junior officers get the experience. They WILL come to you if they need help.
Where I come from, the Deputy Chief is "Car 2", the second in Command....Chief, Deputy Chief, then Assistant or Station Chiefs....Past Chiefs are just that.....NOT an EX Chief, but PAST CHIEF. They go back to being a fireman, black hat with a gold leaf Past Chief shield...or sometimes appointed as Safety Officer.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

We all get your point Cogs. You're single-minded to a fault and honestly believe that everyone fits into these two narrow points of view.
Well, I don't fit into your black and white perspective and I've been both volunteer and career. I think properly trained and staffed combination departments can kick a** at a fraction of the cost of a full-time all career department and run sircles around most all-volunteer departments in response time, crew coordination, and most other fireground operations.
I'm not from Connecticut but I wish you luck with the legislation.

You missed the chief's point. His point is how does a department defend itself from liability in the event that its personnel and apparatus are out of town when a tragedy strikes.
Maybe bnechis can tell us what ISO says about maintaining coverage. I imagine mutual aid is fine but not for first due coverage but hey I've been retired for a while and may not be up to date on the latest standards.
Nope, nobody is perfect but this is a thread about liability and the chief asked a question about liability. He didn't say parades are bad or that FD shouldn't be in them but when you send half (or more) of your firefighting force and front-line apparatus three counties away for a parade there is a liability question. I think his FD even participates in parades within his city but that's not the point of the thread.
People really take these discussions too much to heart and don't think about the issues. They just get emotional and defensive. Try seeing it from someone elses perspective not your own.

Because they can and if you suggest otherwise you get home rule thrown in your face. Time for a change.