Dinosaur

This is disgusting and I can't believe the moderators let this comment stand.
If you're sincere about showing your respects, you don your class A's and go to the funeral. You don't make snide comments here about something as sacred as a brother's funeral.

Mo, I think you need to re-read your post and make sure you mean what you're saying.
Are you realy suggesting that it doesn't matter who shows up for a class and an instructor should pass people who don't deserve to be passed? That's nuts. This isn't just school you may need the training to save your life or my life. You damn well better be paying attention and be proficient.
You should not be allowed to attend an intermediate course if you're not competent with basic skills. If the instructor sees that you're not up to the task they absolutely should be able to dismiss you. What good are people with a book full of certificates that can't be backed up with performance?
"regardless if they showed up or not" I hope your'e not suggesting that a student should be passed along if they don't show up for the required sessions. What good is that?
You may not have been there to judge how they did in the class but the instructor was. If you can't tie a knot should be allowed to call yourself a rope rescue technician? Come on, you're taking this too far now.

Mo, I think you need to re-read your post and make sure you mean what you're saying.
Are you realy suggesting that it doesn't matter who shows up for a class and an instructor should pass people who don't deserve to be passed? That's nuts. This isn't just school you may need the training to save your life or my life. You damn well better be paying attention and be proficient.
You should not be allowed to attend an intermediate course if you're not competent with basic skills. If the instructor sees that you're not up to the task they absolutely should be able to dismiss you. What good are people with a book full of certificates that can't be backed up with performance?
"regardless if they showed up or not" I hope your'e not suggesting that a student should be passed along if they don't show up for the required sessions. What good is that?
You may not have been there to judge how they did in the class but the instructor was. If you can't tie a knot should be allowed to call yourself a rope rescue technician? Come on, you're taking this too far now.

Why do you infer that YFD is not the "real world"??
Why do you assume that I am advocating for WC DES?
I am surprised that you are apparently not aware of this but the concept of formal typing of resources, credentialing, and county coordinators coordinating, was not created by me. Since you are a retired supervisor in FDNY EMS I am surprised, first of all, that you can't conduct a civil disagreement without resorting to personal insult, and second of all, that you would propose such a haphazard and ineffective solution to a serious problem when the obvious solution is staring us right in the face and is apparently working just fine in counties throughout the U.S.
Professionals (which include both career and volunteer) must discipline themselves to not take these issues personally and to see the big picture. So, I didn't like your idea. Get over it. Admit I am right or make a better argument based on facts, not feelings.
To further illustrate my point I will use as an example a major terrorist attack or natural disaster with widespread media coverage. While it may feel good to respond from wherever you are with whatever you got and tell yourself that you are helping, it is recognized by professionals in this business that this type of response normally does more harm than good. The unitiated may ask, "how so? What can it hurt? And if our response saves a life or makes a job easier then it will have served its purpose, no?"...Well, no! Uncoordinated and undisciplined efforts typically do more harm than good. Communities are stripped of protection and the community where the major incident is occuring is overwhelmed by well meaning individuals with mostly the wrong equipment or skill set for what is required, and before long these 'helpers" who have crowded the area and slowed the response of those agencies who are actually requested and needed, are asking the already overwhelmed Incident Commander (or hopefully Incident Management Team) for food, fuel, bathrooms, and shelter. I realize this analogy is not exactly what we are talking about, but it's germane. Just because it feels good does not mean it's effective, and it may even be harmful.
Westchester County has people who are supposed to be coordinating all the emergency service assets of this county. I will not criticize them because I all too well realize that not every boss has adequate assets to accomplish everything he is tasked to do, so he or she must prioritize. Maybe that is the case in Westchester. If individuals such as yourself are concerned that this should be given a higher priority, why not use this forum to mobilize people to request / demand that assets be put in place or priorities shifted to accomplish this in a professional manner?
And please, lean away from the computer for a moment now before typing, take a deep breath, that's it...now let it out, and yes, qtip...

Barry I agree with you. There is way too much equipment in Westchester and Putnam. More than anyplace else except maybe LI. Look at per square mile or by population. Each town, Look at all the departments in the town of Ossining, Greenburg, Cortlandt, North Castle or any of the other towns. Why does each department in a given town need a ladder and a rescue? At 1/2 million plus each why are we replacing many of them? I see a whole new argument starting.

Great turnout by PD, FD and EMS for the funeral of Poughkeepsie Police Det. John Falcone in Carmel.

What do you expect with 500 fire departments in the metro area? A couple hundred on Long Island, 50-60 in Westchester, plus countless others in the other suburban counties.
Only NJ has started to regionalize and they've had some success with it.
Westchester could be well served with 5-6 FD's not 10x that. Imagine the savings if we aimed for that. Big, busy combination departments with all sorts of possibilities for hiring, advancement, training, experience. Wow, just like most of the rest of the country.

What do you expect with 500 fire departments in the metro area? A couple hundred on Long Island, 50-60 in Westchester, plus countless others in the other suburban counties.
Only NJ has started to regionalize and they've had some success with it.
Westchester could be well served with 5-6 FD's not 10x that. Imagine the savings if we aimed for that. Big, busy combination departments with all sorts of possibilities for hiring, advancement, training, experience. Wow, just like most of the rest of the country.

All right I will bite...first of all, in the future feel free to refer to me as John, Mr. Flynn, Chief, or even brother (what the heck), but "Flynn" is just rude and disrespectful....
You have made an awful lot of accusations and insults in your rambling, gramatically butchered post, as you have in others. I won't take the bait and will continue to be civil.
At one time I did teach many classes as a NYS adjunct instructor at Camp Smith in Peekskill. I enjoyed it and met a lot of great, dedicated people, including many volunteers. I love the fire service and would have continued teaching but for one major issue....many (not all) of the volunteers who showed up for classes I taught (mainly tech rescue) had absolutely no business being there. Their basic skills were virtually non- existent and they were signing up for advanced training. Some were so incredibly out of shape that they could not climb a flight of stairs without becoming winded. However, there was no mechanism for failing anyone. The unwritten rule was that if you showed up and stayed all day (or weekend) you passed. Some may disagree with this and state that instructors did have the ability to fail a student but I doubt anyone will be able to document many cases of this at Camp Smith. The system was very geared toward volunteers witth the overwhelming majority of classes on the weekends which I also thought unfair. Career guys are forced to work many weekends and nights as it is.
I began to feel that my serving as an instructor in this system, even though I did enjoy it,was hypocritical, so I stopped.
As far as who attends a service for a fallen firefighter, it would be absolutely none of my business to "have a problem with it". Only appropriate family members would be able to speak to that.
You mentioned Tony Pagano a couple of times. If you have a problem with him I suggest you take it up with him in whatever way you feel is appropriate. As far as I can tell, he has never been on this forum and he has nothing to do one way or the other with what we are talking about here.
It is pathetic to me that, due to the fact that you and others have so weak of an argument in regard to this issue, you have chosen to make attacks against me personally and against the career fire service in general. I have stated before that there are many good, solid people in the volunteer fire service...many serving the community where I and my family live. Over the years, I have had the courage to respectfully and openly disagree or criticize where I see fit. I have never found it necessary to make it personal as you have, and I believe most reasonable individuals, career or volunteer, see that.

What do you expect with 500 fire departments in the metro area? A couple hundred on Long Island, 50-60 in Westchester, plus countless others in the other suburban counties.
Only NJ has started to regionalize and they've had some success with it.
Westchester could be well served with 5-6 FD's not 10x that. Imagine the savings if we aimed for that. Big, busy combination departments with all sorts of possibilities for hiring, advancement, training, experience. Wow, just like most of the rest of the country.

how dare you question the fact that "the emperor has no clothes" you should be admonished for asking such an honest question - what are those trailers for? How dare You! - I asked the same question several months ago and was meet with silence! "I am mad as hell and not going to take it any more!" (I think that was a movie quote) - lol - I don't want to hijack the thread - Great job NRFD

They have been there for at least 6 months. never seen them move, never seen anyone go near them, in them or use them. I have asked this question to myself and the staff there many times and I have not received an answer at all.

If they have the exact same challenges why aren't they required to have the exact same training? So much of this volunteer/career crap would go away if the volunteer's didn't lobby for no minimum standards while there are minimum standards for initial and ongoing training on the career side.
How many of those line of duty deaths are due to the fact that the volunteers are treated differently? I know this is a tough question and will start a wild debate but don't you think that if we held them more accountable we could reduce those deaths?
If the police didn't turn a blind eye to the blue lighter speeding to a call "because it's a volunteer" maybe a future accident would be prevented.
If fitness requirements exists maybe a future heart attack would be prevented but we ignore that "because they're volunteers".
Then, quite simply, they should be held to the same standards as their career counterparts.
All this brotherhood BS is just that, BS. We segregate our selves by qualifying our service with "volunteer" or "career".
I hate seeing "100% volunteer" painted on the sides of trucks or buildings. Who cares? Only the people INSIDE that truck or building because all the public wants is a quick response to their emergency.
You want to be an EMT or police officer or paramedic or nurse or doctor it is ONE training program. Why is it different in the fire service?
Until you answer that question and fight from within your glass house to change it this is all just hot air!

So now it is up to Bee Line to be 24 hour emergency responders in addition to bus drivers?
In downtown New Rochelle there must be a building that can be used as a shelter without expecting the bus company to keep drivers on duty around the clock in case an emergency happens. Who's gonna pay for that?
There just needs to be real municipal emergency planning.

There are many flycar medics in Westchester who would be happy with any ambulance arriving within 20 minutes of their onscene time.

First..one of the most important things to keep in mind is you must use the minimal level necessary for the safety of your patient and yourself. Meaning from verbal and if need be restraint. I'm not sure what some of you are using as knots and around the wrist for a restraint if needed with a kravat...but I've never had one slip. Guess the rope rescue technician does come in handy in other ways.
Few other things to keep in mind:
No one, including in police custody should be left in the prone position.
A very good technique which I use if its a case where I need or may need IV access is the one up...one down method. Meaning one arm is secured in the up position, the other down.
You have to look at your stretcher to find a good hard point to tie off to as they are not made for this. Any movement will able them to get to some part of the body to untie or get out..ie mouth other hand.
A clove hitch around the wrists with the kravat left as wide as possible...(I use and highly recommend wide restraints to lower the risk of potential nerve injury) has always worked for me. Also do not allow them if you can to flex their wrists when tying or it will be hard to keep it snug. That's the good thing about the clove hitch (or any hitch for that matter) is that it tightens under load.
Bottom line is documentation. And I mean detailed documentation. From beginning to transfer. How the patient presented in detailed. How things esculated, what you did to right up to the point that you opted for restraints and I always document "decision was made to use a soft restraint for the safety of the patient and crew." I document what I used, what I tied, where and that I continually checked to ensure that extremities had circulation.

There has been lots of money spent at wcdes. This money could of been better spent by a fire department that actually responds to emergency's.

Is this County Car 1 the position Smith got or is that the fire side line-up?
This is more than a fire position. The boss at ER has to be able to run the department, manage budgets and deal with people inside and outside the department, work with all the different divisions not just fire.
I'm sure they're people in Dutchess who are good managers but Smith was working inside the department for the past 4 years, learned the County system and got the job. He has been around the block as a paramedic and instructor not only an EMT. I never worked for him personally but I've heard of him and it was all good. Why don't you give him a chance before dumping on him?
If they had picked some fire fossil from inside the county nobody'd be happy either. Why'd the pick someone from Pawling or Poughkeepsie or Poughquag and not Red Hook or Rombout or whereever? We're much busier then them it should have been our chief or this one or that.
Of course its a good ol' boys club. That's why they call it politics.

Is this County Car 1 the position Smith got or is that the fire side line-up?
This is more than a fire position. The boss at ER has to be able to run the department, manage budgets and deal with people inside and outside the department, work with all the different divisions not just fire.
I'm sure they're people in Dutchess who are good managers but Smith was working inside the department for the past 4 years, learned the County system and got the job. He has been around the block as a paramedic and instructor not only an EMT. I never worked for him personally but I've heard of him and it was all good. Why don't you give him a chance before dumping on him?
If they had picked some fire fossil from inside the county nobody'd be happy either. Why'd the pick someone from Pawling or Poughkeepsie or Poughquag and not Red Hook or Rombout or whereever? We're much busier then them it should have been our chief or this one or that.
Of course its a good ol' boys club. That's why they call it politics.

Is this County Car 1 the position Smith got or is that the fire side line-up?
This is more than a fire position. The boss at ER has to be able to run the department, manage budgets and deal with people inside and outside the department, work with all the different divisions not just fire.
I'm sure they're people in Dutchess who are good managers but Smith was working inside the department for the past 4 years, learned the County system and got the job. He has been around the block as a paramedic and instructor not only an EMT. I never worked for him personally but I've heard of him and it was all good. Why don't you give him a chance before dumping on him?
If they had picked some fire fossil from inside the county nobody'd be happy either. Why'd the pick someone from Pawling or Poughkeepsie or Poughquag and not Red Hook or Rombout or whereever? We're much busier then them it should have been our chief or this one or that.
Of course its a good ol' boys club. That's why they call it politics.

Is this County Car 1 the position Smith got or is that the fire side line-up?
This is more than a fire position. The boss at ER has to be able to run the department, manage budgets and deal with people inside and outside the department, work with all the different divisions not just fire.
I'm sure they're people in Dutchess who are good managers but Smith was working inside the department for the past 4 years, learned the County system and got the job. He has been around the block as a paramedic and instructor not only an EMT. I never worked for him personally but I've heard of him and it was all good. Why don't you give him a chance before dumping on him?
If they had picked some fire fossil from inside the county nobody'd be happy either. Why'd the pick someone from Pawling or Poughkeepsie or Poughquag and not Red Hook or Rombout or whereever? We're much busier then them it should have been our chief or this one or that.
Of course its a good ol' boys club. That's why they call it politics.

100 hours of in service training, that must be nice to have.
Moose, it kinda sounds like your department has a pretty good standard. What the big problem is FD's that have no training standards whatsoever, more like if you have FF1, you're qualified! Qualified for what? Everything of course! Before the ink even dries on some certificates, there's members out there that are grabbing nozzles, the hurst tool, etc. There should be a minimum of FF1, FF2, survival, AVET, and at least a year "on the street" before you can even think of grabbing a nozzle or a tool. I agree that EMT should be a requirement but at the very least, I think CPR training should be included in a FF1 program. But until organizations such as FASNY are still lobbying in Albany, it will never change!

The fact that you have to distinguish being a dedicated "volunteer" firefighter and not simply a dedicated firefighter shows the hypocrisy of your position. You're as anti-career as the people you allege are anti-volunteer.
I'm no lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I don't believe that the Declaration of Independence is legally binding like the Constitution. Your argument may be flat out wrong.
Ding, this round to the framers of the Constitution.

If you've got a flycar sitting outside for a week and a half without going anywhere you probably have to rename it. Or sell it!!

I see lots of people wearing turnouts that say "EX CHIEF" or "EX CAPTAIN" or "EX LIEUTENANT" and I was wondering why? Are you a chief for life?
Does an ex-officer have to maintain any credentials or training?
Why recognize ex-officers like that?