chris

Bill, this is in the wrong thread. 30 minutes or less is the response time thread. lol

Looks more like a pizza delievery bag...

Fire #1
87 Brook Street "Nappy Auto Collision & Repair"
Croton FD Units: 2082, 2083, E118, E119, E120, TL44, R18
Montrose FD Units: 2271, TL8
Ossining FD Units: 2332, 2334, E98, U51 (FAST)
Buchanan FD Units: 2553, U12 (Cascade)
Croton EMS: 5511, 55B2
Cortlandt EMS: 88B2
Ossining EMS: 36M1, 7405
WCDES: Battalion 10, C&O Zone 4
RELOCATED TO CROTON: Montrose E123, Yorktown L51
Info: CFD full assignment dispatched at 16:09 for heavy smoke coming from the building. CPD (who could see it from their HQ) updated as working fire right after dispatch. Fire in rear of 100 x 150 two story autobody shop with apartment above. Cars 2082 & 2083, E118 on location within 3 minutes, E119 & TL44 one minute after, E120 & R18 two minutes after that. Crews made entry and put two 2 1/2" lines to work, while simultaneously opened up the roof on the single story shop garage, conducted searches and laddered the building with portable ladders. (Truck had no access due to downed wires and trees). A 2nd Truck was requested (Montrose TL8) to position in the rear on Terrace Place and to assist opening up. Main body of fire knocked down 20 minutes after arrival, under control 40 minutes after arrival. Mutual Aid companies picked up at 17:25, all units off the scene at 18:52. One occupant to the hospital with smoke inhalation.
Fire #2
702 Half Moon Bay Drive
Croton FD Units: 2084, E120
Montrose FD Units: 2271, 2274, E123 (Cancelled en route & sent back to CFD for coverage)
Yorktown FD Units: 2534, L51
Ossining FD Units: 2332, 2334, E97, E98, U51 (FAST) (Cancelled en route)
Croton EMS: 55B2
Cortlandt EMS: Cancelled en route
WCDES: Battalion 10 (AKA 2084) & C&O Zone 4
Info: CFD, E123 and L51 dispatched for a basement fire at 18:11. E120 & L51 on location at 18:16 with smoke showing and sprinkler activated. Initial crews found fire in basement level being contained by sprinkler, 10-75 requested. 2084 had the command, L51 had the aerial to the roof as a precaution. The 10-75 assignment was cancelled enroute as the fire was knocked down quick. 1 L/S/O - fire contained to basement level storage room. All units up at 19:45.
On behalf of the Croton FD, THANK YOU to Ossining FD, Montrose FD, Yorktown FD, Buchanan FD, Croton EMS, Croton PD, Croton DPW, Cortlandt VAC, Ossining EMS and of course - 60 Control - for an awesome job! Thanks for the continued support.

Quit it , City officials are upset because the money could have been used on a weekend bender with hookers. All government agencies misappropriate money and this is going to honor two of Buffalo's bravest, its a slap in the face that this wasn't just paid then a new policy or agreement drawn up between the city and the union. shame on the city.

Well said! I have two gripes with this story. One, I can't believe a municipality would nickel and dime the deaths of two employees, especially firefighters killed in the Line of Duty.
Secondly, and I am only asking a question and not stirring a pot, do unions, such as IAFF Locals, have fund raising events to set aside funds for things like this? Don't a lot of IAFF locals have benevolents or something so they can take care of their own when something happens? If so, wouldn't this be a * issue?
Honestly, I am annoyed and sickened at the fact that expense is being discussed following two deaths. It doesn't matter who they were, what they did or how they died. What's wrong with society that everything has a price tag now? What ever happening to doing the right thing?

This is a "bread and butter" fire that these guys completely lost their stuff on. So many problems except manpower. Randolph Township is good for a couple of fires a year, so these guys should have some experience. What cares me most, is this is it if you need the fire dept in that community. This wasn't one or two knuckle heads screwing up, it was a total failure. Nearly everything error that has been identified on here can be traced to a lack of training. When volunteers feel like they're under attack for accountability, training, etc this is why. This incident highlights nearly every problem with the volunteer fire service. Now let me be clear, I am not saying this is how it is in any Westchester FD. This is just the fear people have when bringing up these issues. Career FD's screw up as well, however there you can fire the people responsible and replace them. If you fire your volunteers, they're increasingly hard to replace.

Again I haven't heard anyone say there isn't a problem, and it must be frustrating having family members living in a district that bad. Just a suggestion sir, have your loved ones attend a village/town board meeting and tell their concerns. It may help a lot more than this

I agree that this is a reality and not a fantasy, but unless you personally want to go to these districts and drive the meat wagon, its going to take time. In that time a lot may happen. So like I suggested to the other gentleman if this was my family I would bring it up ASAP to a local official not sit at your computer and talk to people from all over the country on how bad it is. You seem to want the discussion to continue on here to get everyone going

Yes, I think it would be wise to start looking into something like this happening and setting up a game plan ( if you will ) BUT why does the County have to set this up and why does it fall in the hands of the Dept's who has tracks in it ?? Yes, they may have to one day deal with this type of headache, but I really think the cure should start with the Railroads.... Metro North and Amtrack should spear head this and take the bull by the horns and start contacting the Dept's around their tracks and work with them.... ( when a developer wants to build something really big, they usually offer something to the FD's to help deal with a new " issue ", so that it does not have to be dealt with by the tax payers ) and then set up special training with RR officials who know this the best and work on procedures which will need to be followed... They should tell us what equipment have, which can assist us in an incident ( much like Con Ed has been doing )....
I have trouble with being taxed for MTA useage, and for having one of their largest repair shops in my district ( which we protect and serve with no funds coming to our " Services " ) and now " we " ( taxpayers ) have to foot the bill for training, equipment, etc... for a problem which could happen with their lines and trains !! I thinks its time for them to step up to the plate, and start teaching us ( I took Stiloskis heavy truck class, and really learned allot there ) what is the best way to stablized a train, cut into a train, and learn what NOT to do...They should show us just how long it would be before they can get an Emergency Crew there.... They have plenty of old trains which just get cut up, so use them like we train with cars and trucks and help us get better at something which could happen... I for one, as well many guys from Croton would jump at that type of training...
Then once they are " ALL ABOARD !! ", then start a planning session and get a real plan in place...
So calling Spanky the day off, its helpful, but it would be best to preplan and call Spanky NOW !!! tell him they need to train us... they need to get things planned out and ready for they day we wish never happens...

This is all to serious of a topic, and I am affraid as a proud vollie, that the paid fellows are correct with the exception that not every Dept. or company within a dept. is having problems, but some are more social than firematic and it is a sad and needs to stop - join the elks club or a yacht club to drink and party not a FIREHOUSE those days are over . I see and hear and have witnessed company's do more for a parade than pre-plans , training , rig checks and so on. When someone says something to them, you are a bad guy, or your trying to be a real firefighter or trying to be like the big cities. I would like to say that the people in my company and Dept. are not against taking classes at the different training centers or in house training just some of them. I think it is sad that we can't take parades and turn them into training or atleast the money put towards the parades to buy new equiptment , or the chiefs friends getting new gear without proving themselves to the Dept. and earning the stuff for once, like the good old days. This topic is great on so many levels but will fall on deaf ears like most of the problems. ( without going out on a limb I would have to say that paid and vollie Dept's alike all share the same problems just to different degree's and angles).

This is all to serious of a topic, and I am affraid as a proud vollie, that the paid fellows are correct with the exception that not every Dept. or company within a dept. is having problems, but some are more social than firematic and it is a sad and needs to stop - join the elks club or a yacht club to drink and party not a FIREHOUSE those days are over . I see and hear and have witnessed company's do more for a parade than pre-plans , training , rig checks and so on. When someone says something to them, you are a bad guy, or your trying to be a real firefighter or trying to be like the big cities. I would like to say that the people in my company and Dept. are not against taking classes at the different training centers or in house training just some of them. I think it is sad that we can't take parades and turn them into training or atleast the money put towards the parades to buy new equiptment , or the chiefs friends getting new gear without proving themselves to the Dept. and earning the stuff for once, like the good old days. This topic is great on so many levels but will fall on deaf ears like most of the problems. ( without going out on a limb I would have to say that paid and vollie Dept's alike all share the same problems just to different degree's and angles).

There have been a number of discussions about recent structural fires. I think we get the drift that there are a number of members unhappy with those discussions. I think it's important to keep in mind that adequetly staffed apparatus with trained personnel responding quickly is of great benifit to firefighter safety and obviously those we are sworn to protect. Staffing and its relation to firefighter and civillian safety is obviously important enough of a topic for Homeland Security security to fund a study by NIST on the topic. Additionally I have seen a number of NIOSH firefighter fatality reports that list staffing/# of responding personnel as a contributing factor in the death of a firefighter during interior firefighting. With all this being said why should this board shy away of this topic? Life Safety is our primary concern we should highlight the inadequicies if we have any hope of improving these tough issues.

BFXFD, my view towards being on a fast team should be with at least five years of firefighting service before you are considered to be assigned to operate on a team. I understand that yes a person may or may not have a lot experience by then (depending on the department or amount of training). But I wasn't saying that you shouldn't be taking the courses before this period, every firefighter should be. It's like the old saying, if you want to learn how to pump an engine, you better know what happens on the nozzle end, same thing with cutting a roof, you better know how to hook a ceiling inside first. Also to the "maturity" of a firefighter five years in is also better too, the person regardless of age might have that "excited" state of mind still for the work but has grown also to think more rationally also. I should have conveyed that better in my thinking, but this is my opinion also as I have trained with a lot of different people for FAST /RIT and also took part in helping teach.
NY10570 the reason I feel that FAST / RIT members should have some medical training such as basic CPR / First Aid or at least 1st responder status is because what happens if you pull a member from a building and is in cardiac arrest? Shouldn't you know how to do perform CPR?? It's an asset in case the team runs into this they are the first ones that are going to be with the rescued member during the "golden hour" so to speak. What about if there is some sort of traumatic injury, we need stabilization right? Granted the team will not be doing this in the hazardous environment, but as soon at the hurt member is out of the building, medical treatment should begin and who better to start than the people that are right there. Each scenario is different but it doesn’t hurt, remember this is RESCUE not firefighting and the FAST / RIT unit's duties don't just end by pulling the injured member out of the hazardous condition. the are the first responder for the firefighter.
My comment about the firefighters for the past 300+ is to remind people that we have been doing this for a long time and now we have a new "specialized tool in the tool box" dedicated towards rescuing our own in these situations. Looking back yes hind-sight is bliss and yes we could have probably saved more firefighter lives with the implimentation of the FAST / RIT concept sooner but that shows how times have changed as well as our overall focus of the fire-ground.
As for going back to buckets, sure, as long as they are only used to keep the beer and soda cold for "rehab"!!
Also another consideration with FAST / RIT, out of every four or six members of this unit after it is activated the "average" is 1 team member will also be hurt while performing a rescue. Something to keep in mind also

Im gonna agree with the majority of members here; i vote NO to censorship. This is the great U S of A and we should ALL be entitled to our opinions.
Ive been a member of this site for a long time (i believe one of the first 100) and have seen a lot of good and some bad over the years. But one of the good things is that people can come on hear and speak their minds like adults. As others have said, if ya cant take it, walk away from the computer. Or, deal with it and add to these great forums in a positive way. Back-up your posts with some good, solid information.
Hell, ive fallen prey to the back-and-forth bickering over the years. But ive learned to take a deep breath and get over it. Its been said already, but you must have thick skin in the buisness of fire, ems & pd. Thats exactly the way it needs to be on here as well.
I have reached out to several members via PM to "hash out" our differences or further discuss issues or topics. There are guys on here that have picked at my posts and we've had some words. But after going out of my way to shoot them a PM, it usually gets squashed and usually ends with a "thanks" or "take care." Actually, theres many guys on here that id love to shoot the crap with (even non emergency service talk) over a cold one anyday. Many of us could probably have a good time and a few laughs.

Hi all,
My name is Jeff and I am starting a column for The Putnam Examiner weekly newspaper. This column is targeted to help increase awareness for volunteer emergency services – primarily, but not limited to FD's, VAC's and Police Auxiliary.
While reading the newspaper a few weeks ago I began to think, I was thinking about a new column idea it. The idea I had was for interviewing local volunteer emergency personnel on a (hopefully) monthly basis - a "volunteer of the month", so to speak. This would give recognition to the volunteer on a personal level, as well as the agency as a whole.
In the spirit of promoting volunteerism, I am doing this monthly project voluntarily as well. I myself am also a volunteer in an ambulance corps in Westchester. The reason why I am doing this column in the Putnam edition is simply because the Putnam editor seemed to like it and has agreed to it. The Westchester editions aren't necessarily a dead concept yet, so I hope to extend this to Westchester newspapers as well!
What I ask of I EMTBravo Putnam volunteers is to consider a volunteer. One of any age, gender and any rank – there is no discrimination to anyone for this. Please let them know you are considering them, and ask them to please email me with their name, age, volunteer agency name and a brief bio as to what got you to volunteer - why you chose FD/EMS/PD and any other info to help me chose the volunteer for that month, something unique. If someone you know is too humble, email me for them!
Know that I cannot chose everyone and that I may not respond to every email if this becomes a hit; but I do promise to read every single email that is sent to me. Also, please know that it is my hopes that this column is printed each month, but it is not a guarantee. I hope to get this printed in February, it's all up to the publisher!
Please email me at ExaminerVolunteer@yahoo.com
From there we can establish a date and time to meet. We will have a mini photo shoot of that person wearing their uniform or turnout gear and begin the interview! I hope to interview 2-4 people per month, to stay ahead of the newspapers schedule
The Putnam Examiner publishes 5,000 copies of this newspaper weekly, as well as 10,500 copes for two different Westchester publications. It is a FREE paper supported by advertising and I urge everyone to pick up a copy each week! Please view the website to see where the closed drop-off location is!
www.theexaminernews.com
Thank in advance for everyone and anyone who in interested in this!
This posting was allowed and approved by Seth G on 1/14/10.
Thanks again Seth!

I miss the days when new members came in and knew thier place.
I miss the days when officers were leaders...not puppets who cater to the politically correct.
I miss the days when a simple thank you was all that was needed.
I miss the days when me and you could argue about something and it was forgotten about.
I miss the days when you could break someone's ba**s and not worry about hazing charges.
I miss the days when fire commissioners were fire commissioners...not commissioners who want to be everything else.
What I miss most is the brotherhood which is dwindling away...I hope to see it return.

QTIP

I hope you weren't talking about me with that! I know who you are Frank! BTW, "too", not "to"

Speaking of traditions, don't forget good old fashioned ball breaking. To many thin skins these days.

Bob, it was obvious that your comments were not aimed at the volunteer fire service and that this other guys comments were aimed at the career fire service.
Of course, you didn't take the bait and remained on the high road.
Hey guys, in my opinion this whole thread has been basically a bunch of petty nonsense (with a few common sense points made here and there).
Why even bother responding to posts like the original post in this thread? It's a losing proposition no matter what you say. Of course, the waist straps are supposed to be worn. We can go on and on about why the waist straps are supposed to be worn and then we who have put an SCBA on and off and on and off many thosuands of times in our careers could list all the reasons that the waist straps might not be buckled at a particular moment in time. Then, others would tell us how technically we're wrong and that they should always be worn and they could list all the reasons for this. And technically they are right. So what? Who cares? Why bother?
This time, the guy got his facts right. The waist straps weren't worn and they should have been. Great observation brother, good for you...

OK, here's a question... these FF were all on duty and working, sitting around the firehouse right ? were other FF's call in ( back fill ) for these 50 + guys?
If no one was called in and no overtime had to be issued, there was really no cost involved. The helicopter ( knowing nothing about what they do everyday, or the hours a day they fly ) but its not like a indendant contractor was call in, so the cost was really nothing more then fuel, which should be absorbed with daily runs... I am only guessing here.
So there was no really extra cost to the City, if all above is true.... and yes, it can go down as a training exercise, what better real life training is that... do everything safely and double check all, no rushing around...granted it is not in totally controled conditions, but in the real world, nothing is...
Bottom line is this, taxpayers pay for the salaries and assume if help is needed, it will come, even if is for a dog... hell, I once spent $ 4 k for 2 days trying to save my 3 year old German Shephard who was sick. Pets become a family member, and the value of them is priceless to us, many would risk their own lives for...
My hats off the these guys for doing that, they are real stand up guys, and if I lived there, I would be very proud of my Fire Department !!

Wow, if memorys serve me right, just last week we were all reminded to stop taken things personally... I never called out this officer, just the practice of not using the waist strap, and it is multipled by being on an aerial ladder... To the officer in question, I apologize if he or anyone thinking I am trying to make him look bad... I am not !!!

a statement made from someone without an open mind.... your profile states your 21 -24, do you know anything about the people writing comments here.... I fought my first structure fire before you were born.... open your mind and see what I was pointing out, not putting down a " brother " of yours ....

not sure about many others, but just about all of the NYS and County courses I have taken in the last 10 years have had classroom lessons were pictures ( power point presentations ) and videos are shown to the students... pictures which are used to make a point, to teach and to improve what we take from the class.... yes, when the lights go off, I am awake and watching and learning... if your statement is true, then maybe the designers who are creating our courses need to stop the practice of using photos... I signed up for this site to be able to discuss issues and to better myself.. not to put anyone down...
maybe 4 - 5 years ago, a Yorktown Chief was ripped apart for not wearing gloves during overhaul operations, and his picture was posted here... points were made and we discussed it... whats the big deal... all sides were heard.

so I guess your Department's safety officer is nothing more then a witch....
Yes, in my own department, we will address issues like this... as a senior member I will step forward and warn members when they are doing unsafe actions... is it not what we are supposed to do ? are we not supposed to look out for each others backs, and do what ever we can do to keep each other safe ?
Or should we just shut our mouth and let things happen as they may.... if he fell off that ladder, and was put to an end... would everyone juts go home and say oh well ?, I should of said something to " LOUIE "?? would it bother anyone that they never stepped forward and said something ?? but I am sure everyone would find a way to place blame on the fire dept. for not providing proper safety equipment.. then who is responsible.... the safety officer, chiefs, and line officers...
Maybe 2 months ago, or less, a question was put forth about what can be done to get more people to start posting, so I elected to step forward and start posting.... I see the reason why I did not post much in the first few years here, no matter what you say or state, someone out there is going to be upset and start whining... and you become the bad guy, which will only get people to just read and leave... if they even bother to come back, is that what EMTBRAVO is about ?
To close, I did not attack the officer.... I do not care if he is a Career man or a Volunteer.... stop reading this as a personal attack on an individual... I care that this practice continues today, and hope no one every falls victem to it..

I used to do a lot of fire photography, and some of the things I used to see would probably make you cringe. Haven't had much time for it in the last few years - I should try to dig out some old photos though and scan them.
Photos are a great way to 'see and learn'.....and the question of responsibility and/or liability are good ones. If there were to be an incident/injury - the photos would most probably be called into play - OSHA, NIOSH etc would probably end up using them. Insurance companies too.....
Everyone loves those action shots- but I feel that especially the newer members need to be taught how to PROPERLY don and wear their gear when at a scene. Older, wiser, more experienced members should set an example.
Remember we are all human - I know I have not always worn every piece of gear I was supposed to - maybe left the gloves off because it wasn't condusive to what I was doing etc. Waist belt, well, maybe because of my physique I find it easier to wear the belt and support the pack....although the strap almost always gets in the way of the pockets of my turnout coat....so I can't use the pockets.
In my position now, though, I have a responsibility to make sure all my gear is worn properly, because I have to set an example. Not only that, but I also need to make sure that I do not become a casualty in any way, and I sure don't want to be photographed doing so!

I would not say safety police, just point out one thing that I feel is extremely dangers.... I did not point out about the coat, lack of hood, or gloves.... as I don not find that a major issue, and i have fallen to not being perfect either... I was mainly asking about the danger of a hanging waist strap and coming down an aerial ladder...

yes it can be what " if " ed to death, but that one second, could lead to his death...

I am NOT attacking that officer personally in any way shape or form, I do not know him and have no problems with him... I just stated the danger of not wearing the Scott pack's straps while doing any operations above the ground.... If the picture was of him standing in front giving orders, and the straps hung down, I would not of cared.... but he is on an aerial ladder, and maybe by pointing this out to the younger/ newer guys, on the forum, that may think its cool because the more senior guys do it...., may give them the break, or opportunity to see what can really happen if you do not do things as taught and trained... If one guy agrees with this thought and starts always wearing them, then something was gained by this post...

well we should... If a manufacturer, Scott, tells the purchaser to wear the waist belts all the time, if your are trained to use them that way and it is written in the SOP ( or SOG's as some depts. have, do to legal reasons ) how you are to operate with a SCBA, and you fail to do this..... who's fault is it ? Just say he ( or any other firefighter ) were to fall off that aerial ladder, and a lawyer representing the Town ( city or Village ) in a legal suit, gets a hold of the picture, the fire fighter has no leg to stand on, as he was not using the equipment properly, he was not operating according to the SOP, and was not doing the job as he was trained.... the law suit may not favor well in his case....
So I brought this up, just to give people a heads up.. NOT TO PUT THIS OFFICER DOWN, OR NIT PICK

HERE WE GO!!!!! I was wondering how long it was going to take before the safety police started, while you are at it his coat isnt buckled all the way up, his neck flap isnt in place he isnt wearing his hood, are those nfpa gloves? maybe he should be walking down the ladder backwords instead cus he might trip and fall, GIVE ME A BREAK
it is a pic of one second in time you can what if it to death, I am sure if the dept he works for has a problem with any of it they will deal with it.