calhobs

I agree with all your writing, but the main problem is always " one bad apple spoils the bunch". I've been in the Emergency Services before electricity and there's nothing better than sitting around the firehouse talking of war stories of the past, sports, town poltics, etc. I remember loving going to the firehouse on standby during snow stormshanging out, watching t.v and laughing until your gut burst. But that was then. Now ! See nothing, say nothing, joke about nothing, theres always a rat in the department, waiting for the right sentence or word to say, so he can run home and tell mommy, chiefs, and town members that the Emergency Service they volunteer for is bad bad bad. To all those cry babys that run away and rat on brothers and sisters instead of talking about it or confronting the matter in a civilized manner. Well you can_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . Get the point!

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

I will say that Brotherhood in the overall larger sense seems to be a little more intact. In this I mean that everyone shows outside firefighters the utmost respect, goes out of their way to show them things, advise them on where to eat or stay and otherwise recognize that we're all members of something different than the normal job. Is this truly Brotherhood or just a small piece therein? I say the latter. When you start to network with other fire service personnel from all over you can see that there is a little more to this than just having the same job in a different town. There are still many of us to call all other firefighters brother or sister and would be happy to invite them in to share a meal or go have a beer and share thoughts, ideas and stories about the job.
In a positive manner as you first asked, last week it was relayed to me that on another shift a Brother from away stopped in and was in the area for a funeral of a close family member, they were hosting a large contingent of family for the weekend and was looking for a place to get a horseshoe pit set up. One of our guys quickly gave up a set he had at home, sending them to his garage to retrieve what was need for as long as it was needed. Not a big deal, but at least a glimmer that someone had the idea to just help a Brother out, instead of sending to Walmart by the quickest route.
As I typed these two posts I noticed that I'd twice mis-typed Brotherhood as botherhood, maybe it was a sign of my dismay. I won't give up, and I hope many others won't either, we just have to find away to show the value in making the fire service more than just a job.

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

I fear Brotherhood has lost out to technology. The ability to have one's personal life literally at ones fingertips 24/7/365 ensures that is the priority 24/7/365. The camaraderie , Brotherhood and sense of family I found as a proby is lost since gone, taken one small step at a time, though in pretty short order.
When I started at my career position we had two computers used for entering basic NFIRs reports and typing official letters. We arrived at work at least a half an hour before the shift to ensure the off going guys didn't get stuck on a BS run that would mess up their plans. We all gathered at the dayroom table to discuss any pertinent FD issues that arose in the past 48 hours, and then typically drifted to anything of interest we'd done, heard or seen in the same time period. We knew each other on a personal level. We were allowed one phone call home in the evening not to exceed 10 minutes (we had but 1 business line). You'd call home say good night and unless it was an emergency, hope that you didn't get a call from outside. We all gathered at every "scheduled" break and ate meals together. Strangely 15-18 years ago we rarely shared a meal as one, we merely ate our own things at the same table at the same time. That changed almost as a reaction to the loss of time together a few ears after I started. Nonetheless we all, had nothing better to do than keep each other entertained. We constantly played practical jokes on each other, frequently gather to smoke on the bay floor (designated area at that time, when we not as health conscious). We'd practically beg our Chief to regale us with stories of jobs and his war experiences (best story teller ever!). We'd watch the same TV at night and for the morning news. We were tight. Every shift was tight and due to stricter staffing rules we had to swap more often so we had reason to be tight with other guys too. When we came to work, we left everything else at home, very little from home affected us unless it was a personal issue that had an affect on a guys' focus (impending divorce, financial crisis, death in the family) the day to day stuff had to wait until the next day, period.
Of the past 15 years we first started to get better computers, which at first only allowed games, so we started to lose a few people to video games once in a while, but for the most part it was unnoticeable. Then came the internet, and that's when we started to lose guys for hours, sometimes whole tours we'd only share time on calls or community work. Maybe here's where we started to do the communal evening meal that at least brought all shift members to the same table for an hour or so. Then we seemed to find the end of the internet and people grew bored with it. It became a nice tool, but less exciting unless looking for something specific.
Somewhere along the way, cellphones became smaller and mainstream and suddenly guys were hiding on the floor at night arguing with the wife or other people. Our home lives came to the station. Suddenly, all the day to day issues, were confronting guys while they were at work. We struggled to keep up with the changing technology with rules that tried to at least ensure actual work was unaffected, but alas, that didn't work, changes were far too rapid. Requests for emergency time off for this and that increased, personnel were often scattered to the far ends of the building quietly dealing with their home/life issues instead of watching TV, sharing stories or otherwise congregating together.
And today all the technologies collide to nearly obliterate anyone's sense that they can come to work to get away from everything else. Facebook has inserted people back into to each other lives, but on a far less personal level. People know things about each other but given they can read this and get the info indirectly they have ample opportunity to express their true views without the person being able to explain or defend themselves. Now we see far more snickering and back stabbing amongst "brothers". Many Facebook users see the guys/girls spouses opinions and actions and suddenly have their opinion on that, something that used to be somewhat off limits. Smartphones ensure all of this takes place wherever/whenever the member is. Our crews still meet at the dayroom table in the morning and share information, as soon as FD interests are gone, it generally devolves to "did you see what, so and so posted?" or "if I was married to that .....I'd ....". Most mornings there's 8-12 people sitting around, but only 2 or 3 are talking and the rest have their faces buried in the smartphones. Firefighters are far less likely to come in early for another, instead coming in at literally the last minute, still chatting away to whomever was more important at 0658 in the morning.
We still eat the evening meal together but typically it's pretty quiet as one or two people text their way through dinner. We had to make a rule that talking on personal phones was done outside the dayroom otherwise you could watch TV or remotely converse. Yep, a rule that addresses common courtesy. Still in the evening those who have gravitated back to the dayroom to watch TV, now do so with an Ipad on their lap and constantly are convinced the rest of us need to see whatever stupid thing was sent to them or posted on a Facebook page, totally oblivious that others might actually not care.
Sorry, Moose, this wasn't a positive story of Brotherhood. Maybe I'm "old" or just don't find myself interesting enough to Tweet or be on Facebook, and while I think we the Brothers and Sisters allowed this to happen, it's technology that killed Brotherhood. While this is what I see from the career side, I imagine that on the volunteer/call side, the technology has become a time drain that hurts volunteerism, as people spend far more time using the web media to stay up on all things that used to be none of their business. The hardest part is that I now realize how much I miss the more personal interaction with those I work with and the job is becoming much more of a job. I used to want to go to work, now I'm ambivalent, I'd likely take far more time off if other duties wouldn't just pile up on my desk. I find myself looking for projects to reinvigorate my attitude, and this is a common feeling among many of members with 10-12 year or more on the job.

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

"Arbrow06", I hope when you do land a job you let us know how things turned out.
I notice that on your profile, you list "EMT". Like somebody said, a future with the FDNY/EMS might not be a bad choice. I'm sure you get more pay if you move onto a paramedic, and if you wanted there are promotional opportunities if you apply yourself. I'm sure they also offer decent medical coverage and a decent retirement package.
With a city of 7 or 8 million people, there will always be a need for EMS. It's tough work but I'm sure helping people everyday gives some job satisfaction. Of course the cost of living is very high in the NYC area.
Here's something else to consider. If you decide to buy a home, think about a two family. I did that at age 26 and had no idea on how to be a landlord. But somehow it worked out. I had help paying my mortage, got a decent tax write off every year, and now with the house fully paid off, that rental income is sure nice. It worked out so good that I ended up buying another two family about two miles from my house. My brother now rents one of the apartments and that house is also fully paid for.
I've had to take only one person to court in about 40 years. I found that if I give the tennants a $25.00 rebate for early rental payments, I don't have to chase them for the money. It works out great for all of us.
So because I think I may have made a few right moves in my life, I've given you my lifes story. I would do everything all over again if I had the chance. For me now staying healthy is what I try to do, but money is not something I worry about. I am not trying to play the role of a millionaire because I am not. I worked for everything I have. But it's nice to be able to enjoy retirement without money problems. I just wanted to share my story with you and other younger members on here.

Back when West Nile Virus became an issue. I took a call from an older female that went like this;
Me: "Fire Department."
Lady: "Hello, there are two birds on my front porch and they won't go away."
Me: "OK mam, this is the fire department, what do you want me to do?"
Lady: "Well I already called the police and they said to call you. These birds have been in front of my door for over a half hour and won't go away. They are very menacing and keep staring at me."
Me: "Unless they're on fire, we really can't do anything. If they're still there in a half hour, call the police and file a harassment complaint."

SO then wouldn't that go on your PCR? I do not see the point of giving initials and DOB.... I don't see the point of calling a hospital period for routine BLS or ALS calls unless there is a trauma alert, code, etc.

I have to agree with PEMO, I never really grasped why every call there has to be a notification. Perhaps I too am use to working in the City. I remember one of my first calls here in Westchester was an MVA in Phleps drive way, we pull into the ER and the nurse starts screaming at us that we didnt call in blah blah blah. I told her it happened in there drive way. She said it doesn't matter you still have to call. So I stepped outside and called from my cell phone and gave my report, they asked for an ETA I said the pt was already in there ER. I was told by the nurse that I was a smart a**.

I have to agree with PEMO, I never really grasped why every call there has to be a notification. Perhaps I too am use to working in the City. I remember one of my first calls here in Westchester was an MVA in Phleps drive way, we pull into the ER and the nurse starts screaming at us that we didnt call in blah blah blah. I told her it happened in there drive way. She said it doesn't matter you still have to call. So I stepped outside and called from my cell phone and gave my report, they asked for an ETA I said the pt was already in there ER. I was told by the nurse that I was a smart a**.

I have to agree with PEMO, I never really grasped why every call there has to be a notification. Perhaps I too am use to working in the City. I remember one of my first calls here in Westchester was an MVA in Phleps drive way, we pull into the ER and the nurse starts screaming at us that we didnt call in blah blah blah. I told her it happened in there drive way. She said it doesn't matter you still have to call. So I stepped outside and called from my cell phone and gave my report, they asked for an ETA I said the pt was already in there ER. I was told by the nurse that I was a smart a**.

While I do agree that the information required is extremely ER specific I disagree with age not being relevant is a report to know how to set up. The approach to a 8 y/o is different to that of an 80 y/o. I also believe that hospitals in Westchester are way too anal about needing to be notified about every unit bringing a patient. I agree with the "hot" patients needing notification but do they really need to know that granny is coming in with the runs x 3 days, etc. Maybe I am still in the NYC mode where the only time a hospital was notified is if you needed staff and a room waiting, e.g. cardiac arrest, GSW, multi-trauma, active labor, or something unusual requiring resources beyond the norm. The thought process was the others were triaged in the ED in "non-crisis' mode and placed as needed, bed, chair, waiting room.

Good Morning! I just came off a long shift, and I was thinking( hard to beileve ) What was the point in me starting this topic. The important problem is not just the EMS service but really the whole Health Care System. We don't have enough Hospital, ERs, Doctors, or Nurses to even begin treatment on patients we bring in. Thw whole system needs to be dealt with. Too many hospital on diversion, many hospitals in the city don't even want a patient, and most Hospitals are going under or way under staff. So if we get to a patient quick, hire paid staff, get per-diems, or merge with other villages we still need to transport these patients. Where do we go? Most patients want to go where their doctor visits. That's not the case anymore ( most of the time ) it's either WP Hospital or ST. Johns. and you know if you bring a patient there you'll being wating around the ER for so time. White Plains Hospital and Saint Johns Riverside was busting at the seems. Our Health Care System from bottom to top needs to be looked at and something done. Obama Care sure isn't going to help ! Good Nite all, and be careful out there.

LOL!

FULL ARTICLE: http://callthecops.net/police-find-injured-paramedic-during-traffic-stop/"]http://callthecops.net/police-find-injured-paramedic-during-traffic-stop

Hey it's alright he can call me a jackass if he wants to. I've been called worse and don't take it personally.

I'll say again my point is that this isn't a dig at anyone involved in the response to Hawthorne this week. It was a critical analysis of our failure to develop the "fire service" in Westchester and as others have pointed out around the region too.
A lot of excellent FF are in the departments that responded to Hawthorne's job. The departments that responded have a lot of apparatus that didn't respond though because they don't have enough people to staff them. So we went wider and wider to cover a job while idle apparatus sat in stations. THIS is a problem and THIS is the kind of thing we need to address.
It was never personal. And it still isn't.

Barry,
As i am sure you are well aware, this problem goes well beyond Westchester and its very unfortunate, not to mention down right dangerous.
Many Depts can not get enough properly trained FFs out on routine runs on a frequent basis, let alone for actual fires. It seems many in charge continue to bury their heads in the sand and still have the "we're only volunteers and do the best we can" mentality.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is 2013 and the "we're only volunteers" nonsense has got to stop.
It is sad that it may come down to a fatality (civilian or FF) before there is any change and that may not even be enough.
If you know that your FD has a manpower issue (and you do), then you need to not only admit it, but do something about it!
Whether it be through automatic mutual-aid or consolidation (gasp), you must do whats right and owed to your community.
Unfortunately this is not the first time we've had this discussion and even more unfortunate, it will not be the last.
Just my useless 2 cents
Stay safe

We have 58 Fire depts. in Westchester and many have trouble getting enough trained firefighters on scene. Many have more equipment then they can ever manage to get out the door and this situation puts the public & firefighters in danger.
I suspect nothing will change until a multi fatality fire AND a lawsuit against the fire dist /municipality and/or the chief(s).
Its really sad that depts are not willing to solve this problem.

You illustrate my point exactly. It's not like there's this pervasive unavailability in opportunities to train, so I still don't understand how "many" Westchester departments can feel that they don't have the training, skills, equipment, manpower or leadership to rescue one of their own members, or the members of another department.

Westchester, repeat after me, "People are stupid. Very Stupid."
The roads we have, pretty much have not changed greatly in the last 10 years or so. It is not an engineering problem for the most part. You can spend all the money on signs,lights and reflective striping, but the stupid driver that is in a rush, on a phone, laptop, ipad, just too self absorbed to say they are a bad driver, just plain too stupid to not understand how to drive will continue to do stupid things behind the wheel. Just take a walk through a mall or a store, people are too stupid to keep to the right when they walk. Ride a bus or a train, yup there is Mr. Stupid trying to push his way onto the bus or train before letting others off. Society has taught these people their s*** does not stink, and that they are the most important person in the world. It is always someone elses fault, never there own.

Yes and why are they so high? In 90% of the US the state pays the medicaid bill. NYS mandates the counties pay for it through county tax. over 70% of the county tax goes to that alone.
60-70% of the taxes go to the school districts and at least in my districts case the voters have approved double digit increases almost every year for the past dozen years. The same taxpayers complain about how high there taxes are.
And the PARKWAYS shut down because they were all deliberatly built in flood plains, hense they all have RIVER in the name of the road (Hutchenson River Parkway, Sawmill River Parkway, Bronx River Parkway). If you "fix" them you will flood villages and peoples homes instead.
Yes we should rethink things, but everytime we suggest a change (like consolidation) everyone screams not in my city, town, village.
We need to also change the way government is structured in NY, but no one is willing to do it.

Yet westchester has the highest taxes in the country and pay nearly $7k a year more on taxes on average but every highway shuts down every rain storm. Time for westchester to rethink some things.

I don't think there is a call that we have that does not leave some level of impression, good, bad or indifferent on us. It is why we do what we do. Some calls we remember because of the positive impact we were able to make while other we spend a lifetime struggling to forget for the impact that they make on us.

On the EMS side....
While working for Abbey Richmond in White Plains on a Sunday morning back in the early 1980's. I was assigned as the paramedic on the transport ambulance and was told to return to the office. My EMT and I were told to go do a 2 man ambulette from Longview Nursing Home in W.P. to Grace Church on Main St in W.P.
We were told that there were no ambulette drivers working and the transport had to be done. When we arrived ( in an ambulette ) we found a 106 y.o. female named Clara Beech. She was allowed to leave the nursing home only once a year on her birthday, and for medical services. Clara was as alert as a 40 y.o. and could see as good as anyone thru her coke bottle thick glasses. She was packaged and wheeled out to the ambulette. As we got outside she broke out in a song of praise for the beautiful day the Lord gave her on her birthday. Now off to Grace Church we went. When we arrived you would had thought the Pope was coming to the church. The church was mobbed. We wheeled her into church all the way to the front where she was the center of attention, which she ate up.
We left her there and returned 2 hours later to take her back to the nursing home. To see the joy on this woman's face more then made up for the fact that an A.L.S. bus was taken out of service for an ambulette call.
Well if you think it ends here it only half over.
Fast forward 1 year. I was again working Abbey W.P. this time on Amb-1. When I reported for work I checked the transport booking slips for the day. Right on top was the slip for Clara to go to church for her 107th birthday. Again it would take the transport A.L.S. ambulance out of service. I told the Transport medic that I'd do the ambullete call and he cover the city. He thought I was nuts but he agreed.
When we walked into her room at the nursing home ( which was only about a 10 bed nursing home) she looked up saw me and greeted me by my first name. She then said "so you came back to take me to church on my 107th birthday". I could believe she remembered me.
Off to church we went again and there was another mob at the church for Clara's birthday.
When we picked her up for the return she asked if we could drive around a bit. We drove around W.P. for about 30 minutes as she gave us a guided tour of how W.P. use to be around the turn of the century. That's the 1800's into the 1900"s. She grew up in W.P.
I don't know what ever happened to Clara, but I think about those two birthday ambulette trips to church often.

McDonalds.

Locations around the world.