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About LayTheLine

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  1. I'm a little confused about two things, can anyone please clarify? 1) The E response says closest Haz-Mat, Fire Marshall, etc. Would this include fire departments that send an engine or rescue first due because they don't have an ambulance? Or is a fire department that runs EMS with no ambulance considered part of the BLS response? Example: Croton Falls Fire responds to EMS calls and North Salem VAC transports. Does Croton Falls only go on E codes, or are they considered part of the BLS response and go on all B,C, D, & E calls? 2) The C response confuses me. Why would you respond a BLS ambulance emergency and ALS non-emergency? My thinking is that most ambulances are BLS and the ALS comes in a fly-car. So if the call was in Armonk, why would the ambulance respond emergency but the ALS vehicle is coming non-emergency from Northern Westchester Hospital? It would seem to me that Armonk BLS ambulance could beat the ALS fly-car by 20 minutes if they were going emergency and the ALS was coming non-emergency. I guess my question is what types of calls fall into this category? Thanks for any feedback!
  2. FireMedic049 - Question for you: I'm guessing that with 21 FT personnel, that there are 4 groups of 5 and the chief. The PT personnel are assigned to one of 4 groups which would be 3 PT per group. So if the FT staff is on-duty that would give you a minimum of 5 and if 3 PT staff are on-duty that would bring you up to 8. Of course it could vary anywhere between 5 and 8. Am I correct? Also, is there a minimum number of FT personnel that must be on-duty? Example: 3 must be FT and 2 can be PT to make up the minimum of 5. Just curious how all that works.
  3. I am not in Westchester County, however, where I am the following is the norm: 1) Most departments have minimal on-duty staff. Some have vollies to supplement but not all have vollies. 2) Every department has recalls. Members use either their personal cell phones to receive the request OR have a Minitor pager. 3) There is no requirement to come back for duty. Some members use recall as their 2nd job and come in a lot, others don't come in at all and may have their own business such as plumber or carpenter. 4) Many departments have no residency requirements and they work 24 on/ 24 off / 24 on / 5 days off. This leads to members living 45 minutes away in a different county and they are not even in a position for recall. 5) Most departments have a recall hierarchy. Example: If Group 1 is on-duty, then Group 2 may be the primary recall group. The first request goes to them. If no one calls in within 2 minutes, then Group 3 is the secondary recall group. They get paged out and if no one calls in within 2 minutes, then a recall for all groups is sent out. Usually these requests go out for a certain number of members. Example: 3 needed for station coverage and the first 3 to call in get the coverage. 6) Structure fire calls go to full-department recalls immediately and then it's a "you all come." Anybody and everybody can respond. 7) One disadvantage to the whole system is that there may be 2 or 3 calls for station coverage during the day and people are quick to jump on that. They get their hours in and then they turn off their phone/pager at night. Recalls for manpower after midnight and this includes structure fires will usually get very minimal recall. There was a nursing home fire (contained to one room) at 3 AM and a 2nd Alarm was struck. Only 2 off-duty members came in to help out. This department did not have vollies. Mutual Aid was used almost exclusively. 8) My only complaint is that many of the department members don't want more people hired because that would cut into their recalls. The more people on-duty, the less need for recalls. But then they cherry-pick their calls and you may have 10 off-duty members show up for a 2 pm fire and only 2 members show up to a 2 am fire. Unfortunately it's all about them and their bottom line. There seems to be less and less commitment to coming in when "the poop is hitting the fan." As for me, if a 2nd Alarm is struck, I feel a moral obligation to get up and respond no matter what time of day or night. It's the system that's been set up and some effort should be given in responding "for the good of the community." They seem to want it both ways, "If it's convenient for me and I'm short on funds I'll go. If it's not convenient then I won't go." In my area it's only a matter of time before the public becomes dissatisfied with the response to some pretty serious calls and manpower per shift will have to be increased. 9) Departments in my area are staffed with anywhere from 3 on-duty to 12-on duty. The smaller departments will recall 3 for coverage once units are committed (car fire, MVA, etc.). The larger departments won't recall until available manpower falls below a certain number, 6 as an example. 10) Vollies only used for full-department recalls, not for station coverage and not to fill open shifts.
  4. I noticed the same thing about the air packs being left exposed to the crew compartment. I must have watched it 3 or 4 times and was thinking that there must be roll-down doors which they had raised for the video. I froze the video at 2:43 and it doesn't look like there any doors. If there are no roll-down doors then I think it would be more dangerous as the average gung-ho firefighter might unbuckle his/her seatbelt, stretch-over and reach in to get the air pack in an effort to get ready to fight the fire. Very curious.... Overall I think they did a great job in designing the truck.
  5. I have a friend who is a school bus driver and school bus driver instructor - that's what got me started with this thread. antiquefirelt - As a point of interest, the back emergency door can be opened from outside. But you bring up a good point of how to manage everything when it's one adult and especially 30 grade school kids!! This is the biggest challenge for bus drivers and from what my friend tells me, a lot more time is spent in their training on walking through how to evacuate a bus full of grade school kids, although they still go over evacuation for middle school & high school in training. I've attached two videos, each about 5 minutes long. The first one is a video that she shows to new candidate drivers as an introduction to safety and evacuation. The second one is a video made for the kids. They show it every year to 5th, 7th and 9th graders early in the school year. They don't show it to grade school kids as they don't want to frighten the kids and a lot of the stuff they're talking about (reaching certain handles) the little kids couldn't reach anyhow. So it's been thought through and hopefully the kids have been executed should you pull up on any school bus emergency. For new drivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5aZwsGm8M For students (a little corny but it could save lives!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNbld-7QJ7s
  6. antiquefirelt - BINGO. You hit the nail right on the head with regard to transitional fire attack/SLICE-RS. I remembered about the straight stream but I reviewed videos on it and I realize I forgot a lot of the principles of that technique. I have never had the opportunity to try it on the fireground - it's usually food on the stove or a foundation job! provfd - I too thought about chocking the wheels before the engine even appeared in the video. Jybehofd - I agree that it may have been a little risky going in the bus, but I have to admit he achieved a quick knock down. The Navy nozzle has been relegated to the backroom, but that would be a good use for it. Overall an impressive video in my opinion!
  7. This is a short 3-minute video which I think is very educational. I've read and heard both sides of the argument about getting inside a fire and pushing the fire from the unburned side to the burned side. I've read and heard about transitional fire attack and the SLICE-RS concept about putting water on the fire as soon as you can and "reset" the fire; even if it's from the outside. Both arguments seem to have merit and it is very situational dependent. But watch this video and what happens when the firefighter puts water on the fire from inside the bus. The smoke, heat and steam obviously get pushed down to floor level or in this case even to ground level. It's a great video for really seeing the products of combustion being pushed. So I pose the question for discussion: Is it better to knock down the fire from any angle to reset it and cool the BTU's even though you may be pushing products of combustion on to trapped occupants, or is it better to take the extra time to get the hoseline in position by, for example going around to the backdoor, forcing entry and pushing the fire right out the living room picture window?
  8. This is a great thread. I'm not up on my foam operations but after reading this thread and doing some research it's helped a lot! Thanks
  9. How old is the current communications center? It seems odd they would build a brand-new backup center and just have it sit there. Is the old center bigger and perhaps this will be just a scaled down center to use in an emergency? $3 million doesn't seem like a lot of money, so my guess is it doesn't have all the bells and whistles like a break room, kitchen, showers, or even a spot to pull out bunks. But the idea is a solid idea no matter what the set-up. Many places don't have a solid back up plan.
  10. Okay, letsgo1547, I'll start by saying I respect your opinion but don't necessarily agree with it. There are challenges to overcome in doing anything new. All in good fun I'm going to put you on the spot: The County of Putnam calls you and tells you they are looking for a full-time Putnam County Fire Chief who will oversee, coordinate, organize, centralize and even consolidate where necessary. They are going to give you $160,000 a year, with a car, full medical benefits and you'll go into the retirement system. Pretty tough deal to pass up I would think. So, now you're it. What do you do and how do you set things up? Nothing is off the table here, you have a clean slate. You can mandate a policy that restricts any type of rescues or tech-rescues all together - don't even dispatch them. You can transition to a County Fire Department and find a source of funding to hire career people (maybe a SAFER grant?). You can sell all the rescues because they're not needed and no one is qualified to use them and buy 10 additional tankers. It's your ballgame and the Commissioners are giving you full power and the authority to back it up. So what do you do? Ready? GO.......
  11. I guess my only question to all the Naysayers is what other option is there? I suppose you could call another county mutual aid for a tech-rescue team but that would take time. I don't know the financial status of Putnam County or it's towns, but it sounds like if they are going to hire career firefighters to cover even the basic calls because of lack of manpower they need to concentrate on the basic daily responses with the career staff before creating a tech-rescue team. So let's assume it's a horrible, terrible, dumb idea to create the tech-rescue team with volunteers from the departments within Putnam County. No-way, no-how!! They'll buy people cool t-shirts anyhow to appease the 75% of the people who are in it for that. So there is nothing. Now, let's take the example of the construction worker who is up to his neck in a collapsed trench. Time is an important factor here. The call goes out to the local department at 1pm on a Tuesday afternoon. The first-due engine pulls up and has 3 on-board (Joe who is retired truck driver, Tom who is Captain and works in the local deli, and Sue who is an EMT). None of these members have experience or training in any type of tech-rescue. So they walk up to the guy who's buried and do what? There is no Putnam County team to request, mutual aid tech-rescue is too far away to be of any good, and the engine crew is not up to the task. The captain tells the worker there's nothing they can do for them and the crew climbs back on the engine and returns to quarters. That, of course, is ludicrous!!! If there were a tech-rescue team, this is probably an incident they could handle. Sure the response might not be immediate, but in the meantime another department could be called in mutual aid to the scene to have manpower there and perhaps at least stabilize the scene until tech-rescue shows up. I know nothing of tech-rescue, but perhaps boards could be built up around the worker so more dirt doesn't fall on him. Maybe the EMT could get close enough to slip an O2 mask on the guy. Maybe they could prepare the scene by moving dump trucks and other vehicles out of the immediate area to give the tech-rescue team clear access to the scene. Maybe they could lay out tools on a tarp which the tech-rescue team might need (shovels, pails, ropes, etc.). So I ask the people who are against this, what are the alternatives? Not go? Go but then return? Have Lawn-Chair 1 respond so they can put out lawn chairs and tables and serve lemonade and sandwiches while they watch the guy die? Very simple solution which I stated before: 1) If it's a minor situation like a child has his hand stuck in a bicycle chain, the first due engine can most likely handle that. 2) If it's a more serious incident like a guy buried up to his neck in a trench, the first due engine assesses the situation, calls for the tech-team, calls a mutual aid engine and tries to at least stabilize the scene and cause no further harm. 3) If the tech-rescue team arrives on location and it's a guy down an abandoned 200 foot deep well that is caving in, the tech-rescue team may decide they need heavier equipment and call additional tech-rescue teams and call on the private industry who has the equipment to deal with this. Perhaps they would have to dig a hole 50 feet away and then tunnel in to get him out. A very extended operation. But, the first due engine identifies the problem and calls for help. They immediately cordon off the zone so no one else falls in or loosens anything else which will fall in. They ascertain the number of victim(s), age(s), medical condition(s), etc. When the tech-rescue team shows up they realize they will need help and call for another tech-rescue team and ABC Drilling & Well Company. Perhaps the tech-team can feed a camera with audio down the hole to see if the person(s) are conscious and evaluate the situation. Who knows, maybe they could even snake an O2 mask down to the victim(s). The tech-team realizes its going to be an extended operation (perhaps 24 hours) and they set up a Planning & Logistics section and create an operational period chart. They may even call in an Incident Management Team. It comes down to common sense, training, experience and knowing when "this is bigger than we can handle" be it the first due engine or the tech-rescue team. To do nothing you might as well nail the doors shut on the firehouse and have everyone volunteer at the local food bank; which by the way offers cool t-shirts too!!
  12. I like it - sharp looking truck. I'm not crazy about politicians putting their names on vehicles.
  13. I'm a little in the dark here. What exactly is an ambulance service unit? I'm guessing it doesn't transport. It's marked Ambulance and has lights. Is it an MCI vehicle or a re-stock vehicle of some sort?
  14. This reminds me of the talk of Haz-Mat responses back in the 1980's when departments were just getting involved in Haz-Mat responses. There were extreme ideologies back then as well. Some thought it was inevitable and something the fire service could not avoid. Others thought it was pure craziness and the barn doors should be kept shut if there was a green cloud floating through downtown. I think that starting a Tech-Rescue team is a good idea whether its career or volunteer. What are the alternatives? Have some child fall down a well and the totally untrained towns people gather together and try to form a human chain down into the well? With that being said, proper judgement has to be used by a Haz-Mat team or a Tech Rescue team when things are beyond their capability and that comes with training. If a local Haz-Mat team got called to a train derailment and there was some really severe Ethel-Methal Bad Stuff mixing with Super-Duper Sticky Stuff and it was obvious that special teams from the production companies and a professional clean-up crew would be needed to mitigate the situation, then perhaps the best approach would be to evacuate, pull-back and try to protect the environment if able to. The same would hold true for a Tech-Rescue team. If they respond to an old excavation site to discover someone has fallen 100 feet into a 2 foot diameter hole, they may decide they need to call a professional excavating company and a professional rigging and shoring company to come in and assist. In both cases training, judgment and size-up are needed to determine, "can we handle this?" A chief wouldn't send a crew of firefighters into a fully-involved, collapsing house on a report someone was inside - same idea.
  15. I am by no means a seasoned veteran (run a lot of medical calls & fire alarms) but the volume, pressure, and thickness of smoke coming out of the building between the 11 & 12 minute mark is the heaviest I've ever seen!