firemoose827

A lot has to do with the way their Mommy and Daddy are bringing them up an Society as a whole. Everybody gets a trophy now so nobody's feelings are hurt. A lot of kids being born with a silver spoons in their mouths and feel they're owed everything.

Commish, in my opinion we already have them. They're our Senior Men. A good Senior Man should have the same attitude and provide the same type of leadership and guidance an NCO would.

So maybe we should come up with a SPOT-FILLER badge, a SPOT-FILLER helmet front piece and SPOT-FILLER lettering for the back of the turnout coat.
Maybe the design could be like a circle, partly filled with some sort of material, and a putty knife sticking out of it. Appropriate level numbers could be written on the handle of the putty knife, to show whether the person is a Level 1 SPOT-FILLER, Level 2 SPOT-FILLER or a Chief SPOT-FILLER.

Cogs, I agree with your list except for #1
"Any requirement should be based on a realistic assessment of the practical needs of the department and not necessarily what the NFPA suggests or your neighboring departments are doing"
Their are a number of issues here:
1) How can a department perform a realistic assessment of its needs if the leadership does not have the basic training or knowledge to know what they are assessing? I.E. if you have no one trained in interior operations and every fire you pull up to you hit it with a deck gun till it goes out (by collapsing and running out of fuel) how do you know what interior ops levels there are or you should be at. I remember years ago when auto extrication training was learning to cut up cars and not how to extricate people. I can tell you how many scenes I was at (as EMS) that the rescuers did more harm than good in removing the victim. And I am referring to all levels of depts. (vol, career, small, large, urban, rural).
2) There are legal minimum standards, that must be maintained. I know a number of depts. that do not meet these and they use the argument that they cant realistically meet them. If that is true, then you need to tell the public, because if you do not then you are allowing them to believe you can handle the job...in effect you are lying by default.
3) NFPA are not recommendation. They are the standards that the court will use when someone sues. NYS courts have been accepting this as have other courts. FEMA is now using them for grants and this summer ISO got the NYS Insurance Commissioner to sanction NFPA standards for the insurance ratings.
One of the 1st things that is taught in EMT is medical / legal / ethical issues and under legal its always taught that the courts look at what surrounding area individuals would do. So you are compared to the neighbors.
One reason that NYS has a volunteer & a career standard is because FASNY (which represents volunteers) did an assessment and determined that the lowest training level standards in the country are good enough to protect NYS volunteers and the communities they protect.

While I understand the context of your question most elected officials are not charged with making immediate life and death decisions like fire officers are and those that maybe usually rely on the advice and expertise of someone who has the training and experience to do so.

And herein lies one of the major pitfalls of requirements if taken too far. Some departments in an effort to ensure only qualified people fill positions make the standards difficult to meet and end up having vacant positions. Others cast in stone the requirements and then don't provide a means for members to achieve them. Worse of all though is when the "clique of the moment" sets standards that only they posses and then do everything possible to keep others from attaining them so they can hold on to the reins. Setting Officer standards can be a great way to help move a department forward, but they have to be tailored to the realities of the membership that is going have to fulfill them, otherwise they become counter productive and ultimately detrimental to the department itself.
There are ways to address this situation.
1) Any requirements should be set based on a realistic assessment of the practical needs of the department and not necessarily what the NFPA suggests or your neighboring departments are doing
2) Requirements must be attainable and that means more than anything else that if a department is going to require certification X, X and X that they then provide the classes necessary (or access to them) and pay for them as well
3) Begin the process slowly and work up to the goal. If no one is FF 2 it's impossible to require Officer 1 and expect you'll have qualified candidates. You'll find yourself with great requirements but no officers that meet them.
4) Allow members to be voted in (or appointed) with the provision that they must attain the desired requirements within a set time frame to remain in the position
5) Set FF requirements such as FF 1 or FF 2 first and get the majority of the membership to that level so that a springboard exists to move on to officer requirements such as Instructor and Officer 1.
6) Remember you only have to get the vote once, so no matter how many times the meeting shoots down a proposal keep working on it. If a change of tactic or a change of face is what's needed to get the message through, DO IT!!

Another issue that some may not consider is the liability. If I wasn't properly trained (that is a loose term, because there is no concrete requirement that is standard for officers) I wouldn't want to run.
Reason being, : If you sent a crew into a fire and something goes wrong, lets say a flashover for arguments sake. You have members that got hurt and now this is being investigated, If you have 7 years with a boatload of training and 40% attendance, this will be considered an accident and insurance kicks in and it takes its normal course.
If you have 1 year of 20% attendance and FF1 and 1 or 2 more and the same situation occurs, you can and will be held personally liable for endangering your crew by making a decision that you are not properly trained to make

But I'd be willing to bet they assume (and expect) that a Lieutenant, Captain, Battalion Chief, Supreme Allied Commander, etc. has more training than the rest of the department.

without getting into specifics, My department has a years, training class, and active % requirement for officers. We are so strict to this that we have a vacant position. even if you are short 1 day in the years category, you cant run. A line must be drawn otherwise your requirements are worthless

The Point System seems to be a mixed feeling from most of you and I was wondering about that myself. The department I was in on Long Island had the point system and it worked well. You got points for calls, drills, meetings, fundraisers, state training classes and or seminars, and yu needed to get like 250 points in the fiscal year to be considered a "Member in Good Standing". If you met this, had all of the essential training, the time served in the department and qualification on all equipment you were placed in a roster of available candidates to be nominated as Lieutenant. You were voted on for Lieutenant and then did 2 years, moved up to 1st Lieutenant for 2 years, then Captain for 2 years (in two companies; Engine and Ladder) then each Captain was eligible to run for department assistant chief. The loser became an "Ex-Captain" which held as much weight and seniority as captain on fire scenes, and you were automatically entered into the asst chief race every year. You then served 2 years as each assistant, then 2 as chief, then your out...you cant run for office again for atleast 5 years and even then you have to get nominated.
Training was taken seriously, qualifications and experience were respected in the firehouse and on the fire scene, if there were no chief or line officers on scene the "Ex-Captains" were IC's and respected, as well as "Ex-Chiefs". Brothers respected brothers, the right person with the right qualifications were chosen for the office no questions asked...then I moved upstate...
Its night and day difference between the two areas. I wish I could institute the point system here but they treat it like the plague and avoid it at all costs.
Stay safe.

Alex,
The first phase of our planned changes to our By Laws deals with training. I don't know if this will help you or not but here is the first draft of what we are proposing:
Section 4.Members shall be required to maintain minimum attendance standards for training and Department meetings. Junior Probationary and Probationary members shall attend every drill and meeting unless excused by a member of the Service Board; Active members with five (5) years or less of service shall attend a minimum of six (6) drills and two (2) meetings each quarter; Active members with more than five (5) but less than ten (10) years of service shall attend a minimum of four (4) drills and one (1) meeting each quarter; Active members with ten (10) or more years of service shall attend a minimum of three (3) drills and one (1) meeting each quarter. Veterans members should attend enough drills and meetings to remain fit for duty and retain voting privileges. All Active members shall be required to attend any mandatory drills unless excused by a member of the Service Board. Now while some may find the above to fall short, in our circumstances this is what we believe is the most practical and thus attainable standard that allows us to maintain a duty ready membership while still respecting the life changes that occur within that membership. Our goal is to keep members not drive them off with unrealistic or impractical standards that don't take into account the realities of their lives while still ensuring we maintain a trained and effective force. As you can see it is a tiered system with older, more experienced members having to train less frequently than newer and less experienced members. The reason for this graduated scale are threefold:1. In real terms the new 18 year old kid has more time to devote to training than the 25 or 30 year old with a career, new wife (or husband), and possibly family to support.2. Newer members need more training to learn the skills necessary, while for older more experienced members training is more a matter of reinforcing these already learned skills.3. This change will allows us to ensure to at least a reasonable degree the competency of the members climbing on the rigs. As I and the other members of the Committee see it these three points consider the realities of the volunteer world and offer a practical means to address them. The next step in the works is duty or service hours. Each member will be required to provide a set number of hours each month or quarter at the firehouse to remain in good standing. Again there are those same realities to deal with that make simply setting an arbitrary number difficult. Our goal is to set a standard whereby the house is covered, but members still have a life. We have a few ideas, but at present feel a graduated scale in this area would not be practical based on the needs of the department. A redoubled recruitment effort will also factor into this as well.

The one thing about this requirement is its an older one from the days of Essentials of Firemenship. Our SOP's need to be updated.
First off, this wasnt a case of "two equals" who ran against each other an I lost fair and square. I have 25 years, Level II FF and Haz-Mat Tech and a bunch of other stuff that I refresh every 3-5 years. I work hard around the firehouse and always do the work myself instead of make others do it. If there is a work detail I am right in the mix working instead of sitting in the chiefs office "doing paperwork". I work hard to make the others safe, and happy. I got an engine donated to our department just to have them turn it down, now we are dealing with a crappy engine. I got a grant for the department which got us our first TIC and a better 4-gas meter. I ran and worked several fund raisers and have more in the works with minimal help. This guy has been in the dept for about 8 years but was not active due to health reasons. He recently got his health in check and took FF1 while serving as captain. Mind you; he has no experience as an interior firefighter other than the live burns at the training tower for FF1 class. The department feels he would be a better chief because his mother was a chief a few years ago. So...its all about who you know in my department and not about dedication to the department, training and experience. There are no excuses being made on my end and I am simply venting to my peers when I say I am leaving the deparment. I am staying, and I will make a stink this year at meetings to request that the SOP's get updated and new officers requirements get written by our fire commissioners. I will work to make things better. Guess a firefighter cant vent to his "family" or his "brothers" anymore. To all of you that offered advice and comments thank you, I have taken it all and will use it. Not only that but the support you showed, whether for or against me, empowers me to do what needs to be done and I thank you all.
Thanks again and stay safe.

The one thing about this requirement is its an older one from the days of Essentials of Firemenship. Our SOP's need to be updated.
First off, this wasnt a case of "two equals" who ran against each other an I lost fair and square. I have 25 years, Level II FF and Haz-Mat Tech and a bunch of other stuff that I refresh every 3-5 years. I work hard around the firehouse and always do the work myself instead of make others do it. If there is a work detail I am right in the mix working instead of sitting in the chiefs office "doing paperwork". I work hard to make the others safe, and happy. I got an engine donated to our department just to have them turn it down, now we are dealing with a crappy engine. I got a grant for the department which got us our first TIC and a better 4-gas meter. I ran and worked several fund raisers and have more in the works with minimal help. This guy has been in the dept for about 8 years but was not active due to health reasons. He recently got his health in check and took FF1 while serving as captain. Mind you; he has no experience as an interior firefighter other than the live burns at the training tower for FF1 class. The department feels he would be a better chief because his mother was a chief a few years ago. So...its all about who you know in my department and not about dedication to the department, training and experience. There are no excuses being made on my end and I am simply venting to my peers when I say I am leaving the deparment. I am staying, and I will make a stink this year at meetings to request that the SOP's get updated and new officers requirements get written by our fire commissioners. I will work to make things better. Guess a firefighter cant vent to his "family" or his "brothers" anymore. To all of you that offered advice and comments thank you, I have taken it all and will use it. Not only that but the support you showed, whether for or against me, empowers me to do what needs to be done and I thank you all.
Thanks again and stay safe.

The one thing about this requirement is its an older one from the days of Essentials of Firemenship. Our SOP's need to be updated.
First off, this wasnt a case of "two equals" who ran against each other an I lost fair and square. I have 25 years, Level II FF and Haz-Mat Tech and a bunch of other stuff that I refresh every 3-5 years. I work hard around the firehouse and always do the work myself instead of make others do it. If there is a work detail I am right in the mix working instead of sitting in the chiefs office "doing paperwork". I work hard to make the others safe, and happy. I got an engine donated to our department just to have them turn it down, now we are dealing with a crappy engine. I got a grant for the department which got us our first TIC and a better 4-gas meter. I ran and worked several fund raisers and have more in the works with minimal help. This guy has been in the dept for about 8 years but was not active due to health reasons. He recently got his health in check and took FF1 while serving as captain. Mind you; he has no experience as an interior firefighter other than the live burns at the training tower for FF1 class. The department feels he would be a better chief because his mother was a chief a few years ago. So...its all about who you know in my department and not about dedication to the department, training and experience. There are no excuses being made on my end and I am simply venting to my peers when I say I am leaving the deparment. I am staying, and I will make a stink this year at meetings to request that the SOP's get updated and new officers requirements get written by our fire commissioners. I will work to make things better. Guess a firefighter cant vent to his "family" or his "brothers" anymore. To all of you that offered advice and comments thank you, I have taken it all and will use it. Not only that but the support you showed, whether for or against me, empowers me to do what needs to be done and I thank you all.
Thanks again and stay safe.

The one thing about this requirement is its an older one from the days of Essentials of Firemenship. Our SOP's need to be updated.
First off, this wasnt a case of "two equals" who ran against each other an I lost fair and square. I have 25 years, Level II FF and Haz-Mat Tech and a bunch of other stuff that I refresh every 3-5 years. I work hard around the firehouse and always do the work myself instead of make others do it. If there is a work detail I am right in the mix working instead of sitting in the chiefs office "doing paperwork". I work hard to make the others safe, and happy. I got an engine donated to our department just to have them turn it down, now we are dealing with a crappy engine. I got a grant for the department which got us our first TIC and a better 4-gas meter. I ran and worked several fund raisers and have more in the works with minimal help. This guy has been in the dept for about 8 years but was not active due to health reasons. He recently got his health in check and took FF1 while serving as captain. Mind you; he has no experience as an interior firefighter other than the live burns at the training tower for FF1 class. The department feels he would be a better chief because his mother was a chief a few years ago. So...its all about who you know in my department and not about dedication to the department, training and experience. There are no excuses being made on my end and I am simply venting to my peers when I say I am leaving the deparment. I am staying, and I will make a stink this year at meetings to request that the SOP's get updated and new officers requirements get written by our fire commissioners. I will work to make things better. Guess a firefighter cant vent to his "family" or his "brothers" anymore. To all of you that offered advice and comments thank you, I have taken it all and will use it. Not only that but the support you showed, whether for or against me, empowers me to do what needs to be done and I thank you all.
Thanks again and stay safe.

In NYS it is required by law for all Firefighters (including scene support) to have Hazmat Ops BEFORE they are allowed to respond to ANY calls.

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL

I am with you 100% on this issue Moose. However, when I put out feelers in hopes of implementing professional qualifications for firematic Officers in my previous organization, I was met with nothing but resistance. The membership is simply unwilling to impose restrictions upon the members, especially when the vast majority of those members fall short of reasonable certifications to be fire Officers, and would be imposing restrictions on their future hopes of being Officers or Chiefs and making more work for themselves.
The major counter-argument that arose over and over again in response to my argument for training standards was, "we already can't fill the Officer's positions that we have." Every year the nominating committee has to ask people to hold certain Officer's positions so that the positions do not sit vacant. Therefore, you have a few "good guys" that know relatively little about firefighting, who have no ambition, and who have little to no training holding one of the three Lieutenants spots, the Engineers position, and maybe one of the Rescue Company Officers positions as well. The membership doesn't want to implement Officers training requirements because it would further limit who could hold an Officers position and who could act as a spot-filler in the event that no qualified individual wants the job. My contention is that, if an Officer is not trained, then he is not a Firematic Officer...he is nothing but a SPOT-FILLER who may one day make a decision when all are looking at him for direction that will get his members hurt or killed.
However, the organization with which I was previosly active, does have restrictions to be Chief. The Chief must be in the department for a minimum of 5 years, hold an Officers poisition for one of the previous 3 years, have Firefighter 1, and be qualified on all pieces of apparatus (we do not require NYS EVOC or Pump OPs). Therefore, according to those standards, the Chief must have made his points for 5 years (25 calls and no other attendance satisfies this requirement), be popular enough in one of the previous 3 years to be a spot-filler in a lowly line Officers position, be trained by a non-certified, in-house instructor to drive and pump the rigs, and be qualified according to NYS fire standards to work under the supervision of a trained Fire Officer. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!
Another major concern is that each year the Department with which I was previously affiliated would have to get rid of a number of members who did not meet the requirements to be active members. Therefore, the members regularly fall short of meeting the standards that are imposed to be a firefighter. Each year many members fall short of meeting their 75 departmental activity points (3 points per call, 2 points per drill, 1 point per meeting, 1 point per hour per standby), do not pay their $20 membership dues, do not show up for 1 of the 3 sessions of physicals/fit testing that we do in the summer (thats right I said 3...we need that many just to get the majority of the guys through who actually care), or do not attend 6 of the 9 sensitivity training classes (3 Sexual Harrassment, 3 Harrassment/Workplace Bullying, 3 Workplace Violence) that are mandatory for each member and are held every other year. So if the members cant even fulfill what is required of them to be firefighters, how will anyone ever be able to satisfy the requirements to be an Officer.
Lastly, since the vast majority of those who vote in district elections are the members of the department themselves, the fire district is hesitant to forcibly impose such standards on the membership for fear of not being re-elected. Instead, everyone seems to rely on the logic "well, we seldom get fires so the lack of urgency surrounding such a matter does not require us to address it at this time."
I know I must sound like a disgruntled individual (which I probably am as I put my heart andsoul into this organization for a decade only to have it thrown in my face by lazy, untrained individuals who didn't want to follow my lead to substantial improvements). I would like to say that I have never been a career firefighter as I do not want people to think that I am fueling the Career vs Volunteer debate. However, after seeing the quality of service that most members of my previous organization could provide to the taxpayer, I am wholeheartedly sold on the belief that a Career fire department is the only way to ensure that adequate fire protection is available to residents 24 hours a day, 365 days per year. Some volunteer departments are better than others, but all are inferior to a 6 man crew of well-trained, in-shape, career firefighters on call round the clock.

There ARE some volunteer departments out there testing for officers. Too bad none of them are near me...
I think training requirements should be escalating, just an off the top of my head list and this is minimum. Also CTs certification track is different than NY I believe:
LT: Firefighter 2 moving towards Instructor, ICS 100, 200, 700, 800
Captain: Instructor moving towards Officer 1, ICS 300, moving towards Incident Safety Officer
Chief Officers: At least Officer 1 moving towards Officer 2, Incident Safety Officer, ICS 400

In my dept, the requirements for being an house or fire officer is spelled out clearly in the dept bylaws. We have time in the dept AND classes needed to be considered for running for a position. If you don't meet the requirements, you cant run. And to be able to vote on an officer as a member, you have to attend certain percentages of calls, drills, meetings, fund raisers, etc. We have a committee that oversees everything. It has worked well for us.

Parades, bar-b-q's, softball games and having a couple of beers with friends are all potentially enjoyable social passtimes. Sadly, far too many V.F.D.'s are run more like social clubs rather than professional emergency service organizations. The posts here are a very small sampling of what goes on in many V.F.D.'s where politics (rather than the right skill set) determine leadership. This is made possible by the fact that there is no real oversight of the V.F.D.'s other than that which comes from in house elected boards of directors or town elected boards of fire commissioners who more times than not are mostly voted on by department members who are residents of the district. It is dangerous that in so many parts of our country we are still relying upon this type of back woods, good old boy 'system' when it comes to setting and enforcing the standards for providing life and death services for fire, rescue and E.M.S.. I believe that in many areas a county led combination career / volunteer system would best address this issue. Not only would it place the responsibility of enforcing training requirements for firefighters and officers alike in the hands of full time, career chief officers (who don't have to kiss up to the membership to keep their position each year, but it would also be an answer to the ever worsening problem of poor turnouts of personnel for calls at times of low availability as well as for calls that many volunteers choose not to show up for ( smells and bells, sick calls, etc.). It's high time that counties place as much importance upon the provision of fire, rescue and emergency medical services as they do upon law enforcement, education, road maintenance and recreation (all of which are run as full time career agencies).

Not to start a fight, I train as many vol ff's as I do career, BUT these statements by you fellows are why the career side pushes so hard for equality in training, to call yourself a firefighter, officer or chief. Look whats happening, A officer wants to change things for the better, and he is voted out. The fire service is in a lot of trouble, it is time to wake up.

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL

Sore subject with me brother, can I please vent a little to all of you??
We had our "popularity contest" (elections) last Monday night. I have been serving for the past three years; 2 as Captain and one as assist chief which I held proudly. This past year, our two captains finaly finished their FF1 training, one even took the FF2 as well (thats right folks we had 2 captains serving without basic training. They based their qualifications on being able to work all equipment and knowing the department...) This year for nominations one of the two Captains and another member were nominated over me for 1st assistant, I was nominated for nothing. The other current Captain was nom for 2nd asst. Both current Captains have no officers training and very little if any experience as interior firefighters. I was beat out by someone fresh out of FF1 with no experience all because I was making a push to change things, focus more on safety and upgrading equipment and the department obviously didnt like that so they voted me out.
That bothers me, and the more I make a stink about it the more they get in my face and tell me its done so live with it. Another more experienced member 35 years in the service made inquiries into their training records and they have next to nothing besides FF1 and 2 yet our SOP's require FF1 with 5 years in the department, EVOC, Haz-Mat Ops, FBAA/Principles, and at least 2-3 officers courses like NIMS 700, ICS 100, 200 etc etc. They have none of these.
Who can I contact that would get the best results to fix this issue? FASNY? OFPC (or do they even handle stuff like this) local government? State government?
It realy sucks too since we just moved into our first house, in this district so I cant move to another area with a better department...
Sorry for the rant, just realy bothers me to no end...this backwoods redneck volunteer we-dont-have-to-follow-the-rules BS thats going to kill someone if not changed....help.

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL