Bnechis

Would you send untrained members into a fire or have untrained members operate an exrication tool? What harm could there be in that? What you do not know can hurt you. If those untrained ff's touch the double or triple action hatch it might release the remaining product. HM Techs are trained to not touch them, but to place dome cover clamps over them to prevent this from happening.
The law is pretty clear on this and allowing untrained members to do what you suggest is unacceptable.
1910.120(q)(6)(ii)
First responder operations level. First responders at the operations level are individuals who respond to releases or potential releases of hazardous substances as part of the initial response to the site for the purpose of protecting nearby persons, property, or the environment from the effects of the release. They are trained to respond in a defensive fashion without actually trying to stop the release. Their function is to contain the release from a safe distance, keep it from spreading, and prevent exposures.
1910.120(q)(6)(iii)
Hazardous materials technician. Hazardous materials technicians are individuals who respond to releases or potential releases for the purpose of stopping the release. They assume a more aggressive role than a first responder at the operations level in that they will approach the point of release in order to plug, patch or otherwise stop the release of a hazardous substance.
If you have to wait that long for Hazmat then maybe your dept needs a few techs to get started. What happens when you have something more hazardous than fuel oil? How can you determine if it is even safe to remain onscene or if you need to start a community evacuation or shealter in place?
Along the same line, do you send exterior only members in to start a search, because interior members are not ther yet?
What about intubating or start IV's on patients before medics arrive, because we cant wait till they get there?

OSHA uses many NFPA standards as the bases of the OSHA regs. In some cases they refer directly to NFPA (as directed by federal law).
Also the courts clearly use NFPA as "what would the prudent person due in the same situation".
Federal OSHA Law requires states that set up its own OSHA program must enact all standards at an equal or greater level than the feds. In most cases NYS PESH enforces Fed OSHA regulations to the letter (including the same typos).

Interesting that they'd need a different law? Doesn't MA have a seatbelt law for all vehicles like the rest of us? If there's a seatbelt exemption, could it not be removed? This is why there no common sense left in government, because we'll wait until it's absolutely the law, when we actually know we should just do it anyway.
I mean no disrespect to any FD but if you can't get 80%+ compliance with seatbelts you have a leadership problem. Either the leadership doesn't care enough about the issue, when they should or they lack the ability to ensure compliance with the rules.

From the standpoint of an officer in a small department I can tell you that it is often difficult to change the past. In a small FD, everyone knows you, your past successes and more importantly-failures or weaknesses. While most people cannot actually change who they are, some can excel when they get a new start. Sometimes this is at promotion time. I've seen guys who spent to much time as firefighters become bored and subsequently less motivated, who when promoted excelled at the new challenge. Others have been passed over for the same reason. It would be nice to be able to lift a guy upon promotion and place him in a new environment.
At the time of my first promotions testing process, I had already passed on one due to being just barely eligible on time. I had seen many officers and knew what I liked and didn't like in an officer and was determined to use that to mold myself as an officer. Of course seeing and doing are worlds apart. I had to learn many lessons the hard way-by screwing them up! The stuff we study for on testing day is by far the easiest part of the job. I'd go to incidents all day every day, even complete the paperwork, but dealing with people and personalties is by far the most difficult part. Dealing with divorcing firefighters, one who are cheated on, those in bankruptcy, or those who are bored with their job or life are the real challenges in firehouse life.
Treat people how you'd want to be treated. Most of our guys are adults (legally 100%) and should be treated as such. There are more than 5 ways to do almost anything, yet some officers feel the need to micromanage every task to have it done their way. I'd much rather set an expectation level and have the crew accomplish their tasks safely and efficiently. How they get to the end result means far less as long as it was safe and within a reasonable time frame. It's like making sausage, you love the end result but really don't want to see how its made!
As a boss of bosses it's a little different. You're responsible for the leadership of a much greater number of people and tasks and you must rely on subordinates to run these tasks. I tell all Lt's under me that I expect them to be advocates for their people. They must enforce our rules, but should always be looking out for their personnel first. I expect some push back from these guys on some things, it shows they're advocating. I also expect they know when to say when and how to move on and bring the crew along too.
With regard to leadership, I've always liked the model that goes like this:
Tell them the task, clearly explain your expectations, give them the tools and latitude to get the task done, and then get out of the way. If they fail, look at where you failed. Did I set the expectations clearly enough? Did they have adequate tools for the job? Was this within the scope of their abilities? Only if you can answer yes to all three of these should beyond yourself for answers. And in the end, hold yourself more accountable then your people. Similarly a success is their success, not yours. Don't worry your leaders will see you passing the praise as easy as they see you stealing the glory, selflessness benefits everyone, selfishness rarely serves anyone well.

Anyone can design a single rear axle if keep the weight carried relativly low.
Maybe if all you consider to be "rescue equipment" is extrication equipment. Once we add all our equipment to our 91' Single rear axle Pierce it was overloaded and that was with 46% of the box empty and the 4 seats in the back empty. Everytime we wanted to add equipment, we had to remove something else.
While that 4th compartment may get you "more space" its only going to be able to carry air (and not in tanks). Most rescues have tons of wasted space and extra compartments do not make a difference but capacity to carry the load (and be able to safely stop it) is more critical. Also most single axle units are 21' box, not 24' so you actually do not gain the extra space over the tandumes.
Arent most of those ladders tandums?

This was a great topic to start. To try and analyze the supervisor/firefighter relationship is very difficult, especially to someone who does not reside within the ranks of our respective profession. In other professions you do not eat three meals a day with your boss. You don't reside in the same building a few nights a week. Above all, you do not enter into hazardous environments with your boss. I believe that the underlying concept of the brotherhood and the responsibility we have for one another transcends rank, to some degree.
I'm simply a fireman, no bars for this guy. Not yet at least and I like to think that I pay attention to the dynamic and here is are my observations. In New York City, following promotion, you are indeed removed from your immediate work environment to attend FLiPs. Once you complete that schooling, you are assigned to a division and often a Boro that is different from where you served as a fireman. Suddenly everyone calls you "Lou" and you are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with that company during the tour. I have to imagine that this does help the transition since, in all likelihood, no one at that company knows you as anything other than a boss. However, you knew yourself as fireman, so I would imagine that it is a difficult internal transitions to make. Would I be wrong to assume that the first promotion is the most difficult to adjust too?
In my limited experience, the best bosses are rarely feared, sometimes loved and always respected. In our system, we live in the same house as officers, right up to the rank of Deputy Chief. There should be a mutual respect between the rank and file and the boss. He is the superior officer. He has gained rank and with that comes responsibility and that should not be challenged by the lesser rank. From his perspective, you cook his meals, make up the rack for him and clean his office. To some degree, as you move past the Co. Commander (Capt.) and on to chief, he spends a lot less time with the men, but the best officers know how to balance their time. They know just how much time to spend in the kitchen and the sitting rooms with the men. They know whey to just head up to the office and stay there. In the best scenario, the men know when to let the officer lead and when to settle issues in such away as not to trouble the officer. I have always been told that in a perfect world, the men run the house and the officer runs the company.

In December 2008, I had the opportunity to assist in a live burn of a MCD's. The live burn was jointly conducted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the Engineering Department of the University of North Carolina. The structure was constructed in the 1980's and had a wood truss roof. Heat measuring thermocouples were placed in the building and the entire structure was fully documented with sketches, measurements,video and photographs.The purpose for the live burn was to collect data on how these structures hold up under fire conditions. The results of the burn are to be part of a future NIST Report. The fire was started using ordinary combustibles in a garbage can in the managers office. This room was located in the center of the structure.
Its my estimation that the roof held up for approximately 15-20 minutes from the inception of the fire. I quite frankly expected the truss roof to fail earlier in the fire since the roof components were unprotected.
Attached are the photographs from my position on a roof top across the street from the MCD's.

You are not alone, I think that the majority of firefighters have never been taught what is truly needed for foam operations. After training and performing the calculations for ethonal based fires most FD's do not carry enough to handle a car fire.
Very True
If you gate down the nozzle you create a back pressure and the eductor will not pick up foam, so you get water without foam.
Most eductors require 200psi at the eductor, with a max of 200' of hose between the eductor and the nozzle. the friction loss of the hose and eductor will give you 100psi at the nozzle. This is general, you need to know what eductor psi requirements you have.
1) AR-AFFF 1-3%
2) Flamable liquid fires.
3) 4-5 5-gallon jugs per engine. Each engine has a 95gpm eductor, low & medium expansion TFT nozzles.
4) We do not have "prepiped" systems because they cost extra to install, cost a lot to maintain and almost never work (class when you need them (unless they have been perfictly maintained and exercised). As mentioned they get "gummed up" and I have seen many depts. fail to produce foam because of it. On engine 25 we have it pre set-up (not pre-piped) we have a gated wye on the front bumper with a short length that goes to an eductor. 200' of 1.75" hose and a foam nozzle. If you want foam, you stretch that line, spike a foam can (which is stored in the bumper) and charge the line. It cost nothing extra to set it up, nothing more to maintain and we can get foam as fast or faster than any rig with a "prepiped" system.

With 20-25 gallons per rig we can get 100-125 gallons on-scene quick, if that is not enough we can go to our back-up:
We stock another 30-60 5 gal pails in the fire stations and we just added (not inservice yet) a large flow system, which consists of the following:
3) 55 gallon drums of concentrate
1) Drum hand truck
1) pick-up truck with lift gate (mechanics)
1) Foam bin (like a dump tank for foam). Its on wheels has a drain bar (so 5 gal pails can be flipped and drain) and a spike (to rip open pails that are dumped in) it can support multiple eductors at one time as it holds about 50 gallons.
3) foam master stream nozzles with built in eductors and pick-up tubes (can work on any deck gun and pick up from the ground or foam bin).
3) 2.5" 500gpm eductors to supply ladder pipes and the tower ladder
1) Jet Ratio Controller - to supply a remote master stream device from upto 3,000 feet away from the foam supply. This way we can leave an unmanned monitor flowing foam.

The Westchester Special Operations Task Force (WSOTF) consists of 10 departments operating a Technical rescue, Hazmat unit and 6 squad companies. The squads are from Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mt Vernon, White Plains, Eastchester & Scarsdale, and Greenville/Fairview/Hartsdale. All squads are trained and equipped for in Hazmat/WMD and Confined Space, all are trained for trench & building collapse, but only 4 of the squads are equiped for that. We train together, we would like to train together more, but sometimes funding is funneled elsewhere and not to WSOTF ($400,000 from a WSTOF major collapse drill went far north). If you wanted the services of WSOTF they can be requested thru 60 Control, but you have to ask for them, if you want WSOTF otherwise they will send the team they feel is "best".
Yonkers, Greenville and New Rochelle responded to Hawthorne for a building collapse after a tornado strike (about 2 years ago). 18 minutes after dispatch we had approximatly 56 technical rescue techs onscene which included 3 collapse units and 2 heavy rescue units. This was on a weekday afternoon.
Is it a duplication to have the Westchester TRT? what kind of response can they provide? Last weekend Valhalla FD had a vehicle into a building and they requested the WTRT to respond. The onscene time was 20 minutes from time of dispatach. How many members arrived in 20 minutes?
WSOTF was able to get 56 fully trained members to Hawthorne in the same time it tok WTRT to respond to Valhalla with "X" number of responders. Note: as of last summer they had approx 25 members who had completed the states building collapse course.
New Rochelle (and others) have responded M/A to other counties and even north to the Canadian Border. When we were trying to establish a county wide system (years before the WTRT) we traveled north a number of times to show volunteer depts that we wanted their participation.

No its not "consolidated". The Westchester Special Operations Task Force (WSOTF)was designed to operate with multiple squad companies county wide. The original plans included departments from one end of the county to the other. A small group of very vocal individuals insisted that they would start there own volunteer team and they would have nothing to do with a consolidated team. We trained over 700 responders (FD,EMS & PD) for Hazmat/WMD to tech level then trained about 400 to technical rescue technicians, rope, confined space, trench & building collapse. The group that became the counties TRT was offered in a number of times, in fact we brought equipment to Yorktown and to Valhalla to meet with different depts to go over the concept of those department participating in WSOTF. They refused. That would have been a consolidated well equipped and trained team. If it was not for the fact that the County found the pot of gold (Syossit FD) Tech rescue vehicles on sale for 70% off, the "County TRT" would still not exist.

Front suctions have a number of disadvantages:
Added cost(in the $40,000 range)
Added maintenance (we had 4 rigs with them, 3 cracked from there own weight, 1 was damaged in an MVA and when we found out the cost to repair, it was removed.
High Friction loss - with all the turns it is generally equal to 100' of hose to travel 15 feet. This reduces the amount of water that can be pumped. When we had a 6" front suction on my engine we maxed at 1,150 gpm. a 6" steamer can do 1,500 - 2,000 gpm.
In some designs it increases the turning radius
The best one is many MPO's tend to nose the engine into the hydrant when they have it. This can push the tail end out into the street. At a MA call about 2 years ago I got a great pic of an engine doing just that and cutting off the tower ladder that was now 500 feet from the fire building.
The way we keep the MPO safe from traffic is to bring the line in on the right (or left if needed) steamer connection.

Interesting, ok yes SAFER is supported by everyones tax dollars, but lets look a little closer at SAFER. Prior to this year this was one of the 2 main components:
2. Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters Activity. The goal of this activity is to create a net increase in the number of trained, certified, and competent firefighters capable of responding to emergencies likely to occur within the fire department geographic response area and safely. The primary focus is the recruitment and retention of volunteer firefighters who are involved with or trained in the operations of firefighting and emergency response. Volunteer, paid-on-call, and combination fire departments as well as local and statewide volunteer firefighter interest organizations are eligible to receive grants in this activity. With proper justification, applications for assistance in the Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters could include activities that would require as many as four years to complete. There is no local match requirement for this activity and there are no maximum federal share limits.
What are some examples of incentive costs that are eligible under the Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters activity?
Applicants who propose to initiate a recruitment and/or retention plan as a part of their application will receive equal consideration for the recruitment activities and the retention activities. Proposals in this activity may include providing incentives for volunteer firefighter members to continue their service in a fire department. Examples of the type of initiatives that may receive assistance include but are not limited to the following:
Accidental death and dismemberment insurance
College education cost reimbursement
Reimbursement for lost wages while attending training
Marketing program costs to recruit new volunteer members
Staffing needs assessment
Explorer, cadet, and/or mentoring programs
Initial entry physicals
Tuition assistance for higher education and professional certifications
Workers compensation
Length of service awards and other retirement benefits
Now here is the kicker if a VFD applied for SAFER and spent federal money on all of the above activities and the department lost members and did not recruit anyone then oh well no loss (except to us tax payers).
The career side of SAFER requires an 80% match by the local department so SAFER was just a 20% sale. In addition if you laid off the hired members for any reason you had to give all the money back.
Now lets look at that money, the 20% that SAFER paid equals $100,000 over 5 years, each of the new employees is now paying federal (and state) Tax. at the current rates they will payback all of the money in about 8 years. But to meet the goals we hired 8 ff's under SAFER and agreed to staff 2 seats 24/7 which requires 10.5 positions (on OT) so we actually generated additional taxes. If we maintain the additional staffing over 20 years we will more than triple the Feds money.
So yes you are helping to fund career ff's but they are returning the money in income tax.
And everyone has been funding the volunteer side of SAFER and can we measure what that has done for retention and recruitment?
Lets fast forward on SAFER to fall 2009. FEMA was ordered to drop the volunteer side of SAFER and concintrate on the rehiring of laid of career FF's as part of the overall jobs programs of the Obama administration. This is no different than how they have hired contractors for road projects to generate incomes to stimulate the economy.

Interesting, ok yes SAFER is supported by everyones tax dollars, but lets look a little closer at SAFER. Prior to this year this was one of the 2 main components:
2. Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters Activity. The goal of this activity is to create a net increase in the number of trained, certified, and competent firefighters capable of responding to emergencies likely to occur within the fire department geographic response area and safely. The primary focus is the recruitment and retention of volunteer firefighters who are involved with or trained in the operations of firefighting and emergency response. Volunteer, paid-on-call, and combination fire departments as well as local and statewide volunteer firefighter interest organizations are eligible to receive grants in this activity. With proper justification, applications for assistance in the Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters could include activities that would require as many as four years to complete. There is no local match requirement for this activity and there are no maximum federal share limits.
What are some examples of incentive costs that are eligible under the Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters activity?
Applicants who propose to initiate a recruitment and/or retention plan as a part of their application will receive equal consideration for the recruitment activities and the retention activities. Proposals in this activity may include providing incentives for volunteer firefighter members to continue their service in a fire department. Examples of the type of initiatives that may receive assistance include but are not limited to the following:
Accidental death and dismemberment insurance
College education cost reimbursement
Reimbursement for lost wages while attending training
Marketing program costs to recruit new volunteer members
Staffing needs assessment
Explorer, cadet, and/or mentoring programs
Initial entry physicals
Tuition assistance for higher education and professional certifications
Workers compensation
Length of service awards and other retirement benefits
Now here is the kicker if a VFD applied for SAFER and spent federal money on all of the above activities and the department lost members and did not recruit anyone then oh well no loss (except to us tax payers).
The career side of SAFER requires an 80% match by the local department so SAFER was just a 20% sale. In addition if you laid off the hired members for any reason you had to give all the money back.
Now lets look at that money, the 20% that SAFER paid equals $100,000 over 5 years, each of the new employees is now paying federal (and state) Tax. at the current rates they will payback all of the money in about 8 years. But to meet the goals we hired 8 ff's under SAFER and agreed to staff 2 seats 24/7 which requires 10.5 positions (on OT) so we actually generated additional taxes. If we maintain the additional staffing over 20 years we will more than triple the Feds money.
So yes you are helping to fund career ff's but they are returning the money in income tax.
And everyone has been funding the volunteer side of SAFER and can we measure what that has done for retention and recruitment?
Lets fast forward on SAFER to fall 2009. FEMA was ordered to drop the volunteer side of SAFER and concintrate on the rehiring of laid of career FF's as part of the overall jobs programs of the Obama administration. This is no different than how they have hired contractors for road projects to generate incomes to stimulate the economy.

And far more to do than slogans. Actions speak louder than words.

And far more to do than slogans. Actions speak louder than words.

And far more to do than slogans. Actions speak louder than words.

In the FDNY an added element is that in a ladder company half my firefighters are not under my direct supervision since the roof, OV, and chauffeur may have assignments depending on the building that cause them to operate remote from me and even alone at times. This is where disipline and training really kick in members must know to contact the boss by radio when teaming up, leaving their normal position, and other improtant events. If firefighters keep it in mind that their officer must know where they are and might I add what they are doing and officers keep track of their firefighters that is what acomplishes accountability. All the tags in the world and guys outside with boards and rings don't help if the members don't have the accountability mindset. If you don't use seating positions and standard assignments and wing it for every fire accountability will be next to impossible. When you get down to it accountability is a puzzle piece that fits in with the other pieces ICS, SOPs, Safety. Without all the pieces meshing together all of them individually will suffer.
FYI the Resource Unit Leader is relieved by the officer on the Field Comm Unit and usually gets assigned a sector.

Because the majority of the population of the US pays for career fire services and with this bill they get to subsize communities that chose not to fund career fire departments.
The main purpose of this bill is to convince volunteers to vote for those politicians. We all know that "real" volunteers don't need benefits to get them to volunteer and many on here have honestly stated that the perks have done more damage than good.

We are far from having the perfect or even a very good system, but we realized long ago that tags do not work well. There are a number of elements that are needed:
1) Sufficient personnel on the 1st unit and the remainder of the 1st alarm. With response times that the additional personnel arrive within 4-8 minutes of the 1st engine.
2) assignments based on crew seating or position (i.e. nozzle, hydrant, jump seat, etc.) Everyone knows what tools and procedures each member is going to perform, the tools they are going to bring is all based on the seat and if that rig is 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th due. This way we have a general idea of where each member should be and who they should be with.
3) Portable radio's!!!! Every member and its assigned based on the seat assignment.
i.e. 22a - is Engine 22 officer, 22b driver, 22c nozzle and 22d hydrant.
4) A chiefs Aid to start accountability. In the case of a career dept at the begining of the tour. He has a list in the car of all members on duty, seat and radio assignment. If it changes during the day, its updated. So when he pulls up he knows who is here. We still use the tags, but they do not tell the position & radio, for a VFD/call or combo the passport system would compensate for this and the aid would just need to go to each rig and grab it.
5) Command Staff to assign as accountability officer. Once these members show up we document where crews are operating, and based on the roster plus documenting additional members as assigned. we know who is there and generally where they are operating. we try to track air time, but that is difficult for the initial response as they arrive prior to command staff.
We do use the tags and they get picked up at some point, but I consider them more like dog tags to tell us after the fact who was here if something goes wrong.

Well said. To many ff's believe that it ends with the tags.
Agreed. My comments were ment to bring that out.
To many depts do not have the discipline or follow the ICS enough to make this work. Bring on the "antiquefirelt behavior Pass System".......what a great idea.

If I call a mayday, I hope that this is not what is done!!!!!
If I know its radio 22c and he advises he's low on air and lost. I would hope that the firefighters in the building would not abandon him. We still need fire attack, infact, we need more members inthere, not less. we know who is missing. and if he is low on air, he will be out of air by the time we collect all of the tags!!!!
I do not want just the FASt looking for him. Also not every fire is in a single family residential, exiting the building may take time, time that the member in distress does not have.
We do not exit and leave our brother behind to do a PAR, we leave because the conditions have deteriorated to the point that Command decides we must.
An exit par is only done (in my dept.) if conditions radically change (explosion, collapse, etc.) and we do not know if anyone is missing. Normally a PAR is done by calling each company officer and having him acknoledge that he and his company members are ok and where they are. If we know where everyone is and that they are ok, then we are set.
The ring of tags will help the Medical Examiner narrow down who's dental records are needed.

We are far from having the perfect or even a very good system, but we realized long ago that tags do not work well. There are a number of elements that are needed:
1) Sufficient personnel on the 1st unit and the remainder of the 1st alarm. With response times that the additional personnel arrive within 4-8 minutes of the 1st engine.
2) assignments based on crew seating or position (i.e. nozzle, hydrant, jump seat, etc.) Everyone knows what tools and procedures each member is going to perform, the tools they are going to bring is all based on the seat and if that rig is 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th due. This way we have a general idea of where each member should be and who they should be with.
3) Portable radio's!!!! Every member and its assigned based on the seat assignment.
i.e. 22a - is Engine 22 officer, 22b driver, 22c nozzle and 22d hydrant.
4) A chiefs Aid to start accountability. In the case of a career dept at the begining of the tour. He has a list in the car of all members on duty, seat and radio assignment. If it changes during the day, its updated. So when he pulls up he knows who is here. We still use the tags, but they do not tell the position & radio, for a VFD/call or combo the passport system would compensate for this and the aid would just need to go to each rig and grab it.
5) Command Staff to assign as accountability officer. Once these members show up we document where crews are operating, and based on the roster plus documenting additional members as assigned. we know who is there and generally where they are operating. we try to track air time, but that is difficult for the initial response as they arrive prior to command staff.
We do use the tags and they get picked up at some point, but I consider them more like dog tags to tell us after the fact who was here if something goes wrong.

All I see is a lot of effort and a lot of policies to have tags of lots of colors, but I still do not hear accountability.
Here is a scenario:
Reported house fire, upon arrival you have a 2 story private dwelling with light to medium smoke showing. you arrive with 1 engine, 1 ladder and 1 chief. each rig has 1 officer and 2 firefighters plus the chief. The members could be career &/or volunteer but they assembled at the station and arrived together in approximatly 6 minutes. It is 6:30 in the morning and there is a minivan in the driveway. No one is outside upon arrival, the neighbor says she does not know if anyone is home, but they often leave for work at this time.
All 6 firefighters/officers are certified interior. Now from some of the threads I've already taxed some departments.
Engine #1 - 1 firefighter and 1 lt stretch a 1 3/4" handline and the driver operates the pump.
Ladder #1 - 1 FF and the Capt. Force entry and start to search. The other firefighter as part of the two out helps the pump operator make a hydrant.
The chief is IC.
Who is collecting these tags at the door? Who is the 2nd "out" member?
Now its 10 minutes later, an additonal 6 members are on scene (again a stretch for many) who is collecting tags? In a few minutes it will be time to rotate members due to low air.
A PASS alarm goes off and is not reset, what does your tag ("accountability") system do for you?
Who's alarm?
Where are they?
Who has what radio (if equipped) ?
You do a PAR and 2 members do not answer (but only 4 of the 7 members inside have radios). So how does your tag ("accountability") system help?
Visability starts to deteriorate and one of the truck members shows up in a 2nd floor window, a ground ladder is placed and he gets out. He does not know where anyone else is. How does your tag ("accountability") system help?

If there are so many issues with this unit is worth it to rebuild / rechassis?
In investigating the costs I found you save approximatly the resale value so bying new and taking the trade in is almost the same, but you end up 100% new and the old one stays in town until the new unit arrives. Otherwise your only ladder is out of town for months.
Can you explain why you think it is perfect for Hartsdale?

If there are so many issues with this unit is worth it to rebuild / rechassis?
In investigating the costs I found you save approximatly the resale value so bying new and taking the trade in is almost the same, but you end up 100% new and the old one stays in town until the new unit arrives. Otherwise your only ladder is out of town for months.
Can you explain why you think it is perfect for Hartsdale?