Bnechis

Enforcement is determined by the municipality and who they gave the authority to in enforcing the NYS UF&BC. In most cases it is the building dept. So the FD (particularly on the career side) others the Fire Marshal.
If its a municipal law (like in NR) PD FD & BD all can do it.
As GIS on the rigs has improved, it has actually become less of an issue, since we can "see" the house number on the rig, telling us which home is which. It is still very important, but a little less so.

They could not have done this 500 posts ago?

Both NYC and Yonkers have a nonresiedent payroll tax, if you work in either city you get to pay.
The MTA commuter tax is on the employeer not the employee in the Hudson valley (and ?) for the honor of being close to NYC and as a reward to the MTA for not being able to stay within its multi billion dollar budget.
Bloomberg proposed an additional commuter tax, but it was not approved by the state

And at home they are protected by big fire stations with lots of apparatus and more highly trained manpower......oh never mind....dont want to spoil the atmosphere.
Most commuters think they have the same coverage at home that they see in NYC

Badges, we don't need no stinking Badges

Badges, we don't need no stinking Badges

And at home they are protected by big fire stations with lots of apparatus and more highly trained manpower......oh never mind....dont want to spoil the atmosphere.
Most commuters think they have the same coverage at home that they see in NYC

Well said. You are correct every firefighter and every rig should be able to be FAST, it is clear that due to lack of training, experience, or personnel (including interior certified) many departments and their members can not do this critical and basic function of rescuing another firefighter.

Bill, this is in the wrong thread. 30 minutes or less is the response time thread. lol

At this time I am no longer a volunteer fireman but just a resident of a volunteer town and I must say you both sound like you both need cheese for your whine. I live in an area similar to Westchester that could use a good dose of consolidation, and I have not gone to a meeting to ask why this isn't being looked into since the school districts are.
The voluntters on here that are bashing Chief Flynn for his comments get over yourselves and realize there is a problem. You are just showing everyone why change in the fire service has not occured. Also if you were so against parades one you wouldn't go, as I know a member on here who I used to volunteer with wouldn't and two you would speak up at a meeting. Finnaly they are not talking about just volunteers when they talk about regionalization. There are several career departments in Westchester that would be just as well served by regionization as volunteers departments would.
Career firemen I understand why you have the feelings you do, but if you have loved ones living somewhere that the fire service being provided is less than adequate do you tell them to move? Also doesn't the Commisioner of Yonkers live/lived in a volunteer town?
In the end I hope you both realize that neither of you has a perfect system. Is it right for a career department to call another department that is crazy far away or to not be adequately staffed? Is it right for every volunteer to not be properly trained as much as a career man?
Bnechis the county would be better served if you were its next Commisioner. You come well informed and have proactive ideas, especially for someone that is a member of a top class department.

1) Can you show which post or posts have been claiming that any department (by name, type or community) is inferior?
2) Cheif Flynn asked about coverage and found out that some depts go to Lake george and later on found that they go for 4 days. Again, does this claim they are providing shoddy service? If they are covering there districts then the only question is do they tell the taxpayers that this is something the dept spends there tax money on?
3) Do you really need to go to every fire to know if a dept is doing a good job? Or can you listen to 60 Control toning them out for the 3rd time for any available driver, or see here that it took 5 departments to respond to a 1 line fire? Or look at there state fire training records (which are available to every MTO) and see that there are depts that are not even meeting the minimum standards that the law requires. Or looking at the ISO ratings that show how many depts are scoring 20% on an open book test (at last count i think it was 32 depts in Westchester that were ISO 9 or Partial 9).

Yes he used the word inferior, but I said; "1) Can you show which post or posts have been claiming that any department (by name, type or community) is inferior?" and KCRD said: "Why should someone be thanked for providing an inferior service (career or vollie)?". Can you please tell us which department, type of dept. or community he was talking about from the info provided?
So what is the difference if they are providing shoddy service or inferior service?
shoddy [ˈʃɒdɪ]
1. imitating something of better quality
2. of poor quality; trashy
3. made of shoddy material
inferior [ɪnˈfɪərɪə]
1. lower in value or quality
2. lower in rank, position, or status; subordinate
3. not of the best; mediocre; commonplace
4. lower in position; situated beneath
And that did not answer my question.
1) As an American I do not need to be appointed (thanks to my grand parents and great grand parents for leaving the old world so I would have that right).
2) As a public service using public funds that are paid for with public tax money I do have the right to comment. And yes my tax dollars do find there way into every dept. in Westchester (and beyond).
Yes it clearly is the business of the fire leaders and the membership, but it is clear that some are not taking care of business. There are a number of members of VFD's who have posted here as to how they have tried to change this and some have been able to and others have been forced out, because the leaders or members do not want that. It is even more clear that the public has no idea what level of service is being provided. This is particularly true if the public is never told what level of service is being provided.
I do have family and friends who live in a number of cummunities and I care greatly over them, thank you. I also have many friends who are both volunteer and career firefighters in these departments and I worry about them and the fact that they are placed in even greater danger than members of my dept.
You say this is only about volunteers....I have made these comments about career depts., combo depts and volunteer depts. For me it has never been about volunteer vs. career, it has always been about providing the best service, Thats what I swore I would do when I was sworn in.
So you believe that volunteers and career are on opposing sides, opposing sides of what? all I have been hearing is quality of service issues, are you saying that we are on opposing sides of that?
It has been made clear by a couple of posters that depts who are willing to take apparatus and firefighters to Lake George without providing coverage for days are on opposing side of quality service>
One of the great things about America is you can. One of the things that is great about my department is when we have a problem, we study it and report that problem to the city administration, the mayor and the city council and its often done live, on camera for the community to see and now its available on the internet so our property owners who are out of town can watch. When our firefighters do not feel that those channels are working they have gone to the press and have been out at the supermarkets and railroad station making sure the public knows what the problem is. Now this may not solve the problem, but it can not be said we did not inform the community about what we can and can not do.
It has already been posted that in some depts. the parade is the most important thing and yes if it "Came to light" they might but thats only because they were caught.
Retones are a common part of many dept. procedures, including mine, but when you hear: any available ______ time after time, and then hear them toning mutual aid to cover the call this is not a retone issue.

Great thread and some very good comments by all. One thing we should all keep in mind is to determine the cause of the incident before rushing right in here.
Remember in our area (Metro NYC) this may not be a human caused error or just faulty equipment. It is very possible that a scene like this could be the result of a terroristic act. When this happens we have have to approach the scene with assistance from law enforcement also. Bomb Squads, canine units and others must perform physical searches and mitigate in order to make sure no secondary devices are present.
In these types of incidents it is very possible that more than one device may be involved on the same train. I would cautiously recommend that prior to establishing a Command Post, Triage and Staging areas that thought be given to safety from secondary devices. MTA PD, Westchester County DPS and others have plenty of resources to help perform these sweeps. Usually this only takes a few minutes and we train for these situations all the time.
Another thing to keep in mind is that history has shown that if this is happening in one jurisdiction, it is very probable that there will be other events in the region that may occurr simutaneously . It is very important to step back and look at the whole dynamic picture before committing every single resource we have to one location.
IC is so important in a scene like this. Only by using it everday in everything we do will we make this scene work well.
MNR usually holds one mass casualty drill a year in the northern suburbs and I highly recommend that all attend even if only as an observer.
Just my two cents and a great thread for all of us to keep discussing.

In other threads, departments are doing dual response just to get enough players on the field to look like they have a full team. If dual response does not completely cover when everyone is in town, how does it work when each department is running even shorter?
Good idea, better would be FD guides, who also know water supply and building info.
Yes, while some here think this is about vol. FD's, New Rochelle does have parades for Thanksgiving & Memorial Day. The T day parade startes north of the High School and travels all the way down to the south end. We start the parade with E-23, L-13, 2302 & R-4 when the parade gets to garden street, E23 & L13 peel off and E-21, E-22, L-11 & L-12 peel in. All rigs are in there 1st or second due area. And there is never a drop in level of service or an increase in response times.
In addition to the liability for failure to meet service demands, i would think you are proving that some of your fleet may
not be needed, if you can send it out of town. My father (who has nothing to do with emergency services) asked why does every dept. need a tower ladder (he lives in NO. West.), then after taking some of his grand kids to the Ossining Parade, he told me; "now I know, its to compete for a trophy". But what is the cost to the tax payer to buy these units, when the FD figures its ok to take them out of town (sometimes to a dozen parades).
On the same note, I can understand (and love) when a dept has a historical rig that goes to parades, but when you buy the brand new latest & greatest and told the mayor or tax payers that your community cant live without it, how can you take it away from them?
It has been argued that mutual aid in general does not provide the level of protection normally. In fact ISO does not recognize or give credit for mutual aid and even automatic aid is only credited at 90% (with multiple drills and sops)because they realize its not as good.
Very True. While its a long time ago and liability has changed, I remember a volunteer (who regularly posts here) returning from a parade on the back step of a rig and he almost stepped off to get his hat, they were on 684 at the time. Today that would have resulted in a multi million dollar law suit. Note Its not that he is worth it, just what his wife could get for his body.
If people do not know how there own depts function, then we one bshould not bother the chief as he has a lot of work to do....teaching his firefighters how they cover the district when its parade season.
If anyone actually believes this, then this is the justification for mandatory in house rostering of crews, since you need to provide service and you never know when an incident will occur, you can schedule the crews to be there when it does happen.
They must be very proud of these activities, maybe they should have press releases to let the taxpayers know and then the can be as proud also.

In other threads, departments are doing dual response just to get enough players on the field to look like they have a full team. If dual response does not completely cover when everyone is in town, how does it work when each department is running even shorter?
Good idea, better would be FD guides, who also know water supply and building info.
Yes, while some here think this is about vol. FD's, New Rochelle does have parades for Thanksgiving & Memorial Day. The T day parade startes north of the High School and travels all the way down to the south end. We start the parade with E-23, L-13, 2302 & R-4 when the parade gets to garden street, E23 & L13 peel off and E-21, E-22, L-11 & L-12 peel in. All rigs are in there 1st or second due area. And there is never a drop in level of service or an increase in response times.
In addition to the liability for failure to meet service demands, i would think you are proving that some of your fleet may
not be needed, if you can send it out of town. My father (who has nothing to do with emergency services) asked why does every dept. need a tower ladder (he lives in NO. West.), then after taking some of his grand kids to the Ossining Parade, he told me; "now I know, its to compete for a trophy". But what is the cost to the tax payer to buy these units, when the FD figures its ok to take them out of town (sometimes to a dozen parades).
On the same note, I can understand (and love) when a dept has a historical rig that goes to parades, but when you buy the brand new latest & greatest and told the mayor or tax payers that your community cant live without it, how can you take it away from them?
It has been argued that mutual aid in general does not provide the level of protection normally. In fact ISO does not recognize or give credit for mutual aid and even automatic aid is only credited at 90% (with multiple drills and sops)because they realize its not as good.
Very True. While its a long time ago and liability has changed, I remember a volunteer (who regularly posts here) returning from a parade on the back step of a rig and he almost stepped off to get his hat, they were on 684 at the time. Today that would have resulted in a multi million dollar law suit. Note Its not that he is worth it, just what his wife could get for his body.
If people do not know how there own depts function, then we one bshould not bother the chief as he has a lot of work to do....teaching his firefighters how they cover the district when its parade season.
If anyone actually believes this, then this is the justification for mandatory in house rostering of crews, since you need to provide service and you never know when an incident will occur, you can schedule the crews to be there when it does happen.
They must be very proud of these activities, maybe they should have press releases to let the taxpayers know and then the can be as proud also.

So, since everyone.... well almost everyone LIVES in the area that they volunteer and decides weeks,months, or a year in advance of when they are going to attend a function be it parade, washdown/wetdown etc. Nobody on here knows the process about how their house, apt etc is being covered except the Chief???? For some reason I just can't bring myself to believe that. Wouldn't you like to know who is covering god for bid something happens to yours or a family members house, apt etc.? I would. Maybe someone that sits in the shadows on here would too? Now that it has been brought up I am a bit curious about it. (now I can fade back into the shadows)

Parades outside of a departments response jurisdictions are one of the biggest liabilities a chief officer faces every year during parade season. Taking apparatus outside the jurisdiction especially to a municipality on the other side of the county (or to Lake George) is a recipe for disaster. Departments are just setting themselves up for the fall.
With limited manpower available in many departments it is inexcusable to allow apparatus to be taken to a parade by the few firefighters a municipality has available. Making arrangements for mutual aid coverage during a parade is a band aid approach to providing coverage. I can rememebr several years ago responding with my company on mutual aid to a municipality several towns away during the Lake George weekend into a working fire and was one of the first companies to arrive. The muncipality the fire occurred in had several pieces of apparatus and a large number of members up in Lake George
The public and taxpayers we serve and are supported by have an expectation that the fire apparatus and firefighters from their department will respond when the alarm is sounded in their community. The mnicipality or district purchased the fire apparatus (I know some companies own their own rigs) and have entrusted their care and use to the fire department the Fire Chief and firefighters that man them. The apparatus is for emergency response not for parades. It is sad but many departments get more people out for a parade then they do far an alarm.
I love the social and departmental rivalries that are such a part of the fire service and believe stronly that they have their place and time but we have an obligation to serve our communities first. Taking a parade in a neighboring muncipality is an acceptable social event your department can enjoy because you are able to immediately respond back into your jurisdiction with minimal or no impact on response times. Any chief officer that allows apparatus to leave the jurisdiction for a social event or parade hosted in a distant municipality should say a prayer that nothing happens in their jurisdiction during the absence of department apparatus. Additionally, what if something happens in route to or coming home from a parade. How do you explain to taxpayers that the brand new $700,000 dollar apparatus was damaged or destroyed going to a parade?
Chief officers, in this litigous society we live in please think of the liability you assume during a parade before you permit your apparatus to go out of jurisdiction. You can and will be held liable if and when something goes terribly wrong

Great Thread, lots of interesting issues.
>>Call for everybody........have Control notify every agency that they have a phone number for.<<
You will lose control very fast this way. You need to know who is coming and keep everyone else out. Establish strong perimeters and staging. Make sure you have enough law enforcement to do it and they know not to let FD or EMS in that has not been sent from staging.
>> Mass EMS mobilization, and hospitals, trauma-center notification. Control is going to be very busy.<<
60 can now do a mass notification with the trunk system and request all recieving facilities update there MCI bed status which we can recieve on rig PC's at scene.
>> Call for some air-med transport and establish a triage and landing zone in an open area somewhere nearby; plan for an EMS ferry system for multi-victims to the triage site.<<
Generally air medical sucks up more resources than it helps. Concentrate on the basics. Triage is generally not done in an area, but where you find them. Triage may also be an issue if the scene is not safe and EMS is not trained/equipped to operate in the hazard zone (can FD handle this?). Treatment areas need to be set up. Because of the cold, we need to get treatment areas out of the weather, options may include close buildings, large busses (bee line tandams are great for this) (backboarded patients can be placed over the seat backs), or heated tents (as seen in the pics) There are about a dozen of those heated tents in Westchester, most responders may not know that (each squad, each mass decon unit). For ferry system, consider 1) a rescue train (if distance is great, this may be best). 2) Metro north rail capable pick-up trucks. 3) rail rescue platforms (as seen in the pics), FDNY has them.
>> You're going to need rail-mounted cranes for stabilization.<< This might work well if you do not have overhead panagraphs, on the New Haven Line, chances are they will not get close.
>> Very important to establish NIMS ICS, especially get a staging officer out there to organize all the help coming in, I'd assign a firefighter or LT immediately, no sense in blocking up the area we might need road access to the site. How about a drop off point as close to the scene as possible, where rigs can roll up and stage equipment, then roll out to a parking area? <<
Once the rigs get into the scene, it will be hard to get them out to a parking area. Stagging is very very critical (look at what happened at Avianca crash). We do not do this well and it must be. Anyone who bypasses it needs to be sent home. If units (like engines)are going to be parked in staging, ambulances need to be in an area they can get out.
EMS ICS Managment is a big problem in Westchester, in many places it is very hard to get a crew out,much less crews and supervisors. For this incident we are going to need at least a 1/2 dozen EMS officers who know how to run MCI ops.
>> Depending on the time, you might need some heavy lighting systems, plus the generator-lights that we carried, portable 1000 watt lights.<<
Plan for it, it may not be dark now, but we will be here for many many hours.
There are many training and planning issues in this thread, most have never been addressed. Based on this many communities are going to perform poorly when this happens for real.
If you think it can't happen here, I took this pic in Mt. Vernon (and it was not the 1st time this happened at this location.

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD

Rye Brooks politicians used this argument when the broke away from Port Chester. "We pay more in tax and the they use the services more" so they split and brought in Rual/Metro. So they went from paying 60-80% (I dont remember what the % was) to paying 100% and getting very little service. Don't some property owners in town A pay more than others in town A? do they get the same level of service or do they get more because they pay more?
We need to teach the public that fire stations and fire trucks do not fight fire or respond to emergencies. It takes firefighters. The main reason that stations are closed in a consolidation are there are too many empty fire stations or the building has not been maintained/is at the end of its life and is no longer safe to use.
Everytime I hear this I have to explain the economic value of a fire department. This is something that the fire service is very poor at doing. Now if you have a poor ISO rating and high tax this one does not work well, but in our case:
The average home owner in NR pays $425 per year in tax that gets to the FD. we have an ISO of 2. If we give back the $422 and get rid of the FD, that property insurance will go up $1,200 - $1,400 per year. That means if we never do another call we save that property $800 - $1,000 per year. We also make development more competative, if it is cheaper for a company to come to us than go somewhere else.

My point with that post was that consolidation maybe coming to Larchmont regardless of what depts it consolidates with. The Mamaroneck (Town & Village) and the vilage of larchmont are talking about a number of different consolidation areas. What is interesting is they did not include VMFD in the FD consolidation. My guess is they are strong enough politically that no one wanted to go there. There have also been many public discusions about TMFD taking over and getting rid of LFD including firing all career members. This has been proposed in the local paper by a group of volunteers that quit LFD and want to punish the career members for pushing to get a career chief. The 6 or so studies that have been brought to the table only talk about how much money could be saved, and no consideration for FD capabilities.
The County has nothing to do with any of this and there has been no interest expressed on anyones part to include them. The 100% volunteer departments are not included in this planning because the gap is to great. When NYS has one standard for all firefighters and they believe that NFPA 1710 is the minimum standard that should be meet, then they could be included.
YFD helped the rest of us get up to speed, they are the head of WSOTF and would continue to be so.
Very well said. We have looked carefully at that and you are 100% correct. When speaking with one of the council members from a smaller community, that concern was expressed, that his rigs would be in the cities covering them, why should his taxpayers subsidize the cities? My answer was, have you ever had a fire that you did not call mutual aid? I asked him if he new that the cities tax payers have been subsidizing his dept for years. He later told me he never considered that. He also never considered that 2 - 5 firefighters would not be able to get the job done at a working fire, much less one in a large multiple dwelling.

"I bring you these 15....opps...........10...10 commandments" - Mel Brooks

OK it looks like story time.
Once upon a time there was a very large strip shopping center whose parking lot straddled two jurisdictions. Quite a few people beat a few arrests because the "jurisdiction that they were arrested in" was wrong. The PD's agreed to paint the city line across the parking lot (3 or 4 city blocks long) so it would very clear where the arrest was made.
Then, one day, an engine Co. from one of the jurisdictions was spotted by a politico, shopping at a market 300 ft out ot their city. (That particular Eng. Co. has no supermarkets in its company area) The poop hit the air circulator,(despite all the logic explained by the guilty Eng. Co.) and City A's FD was banned from shopping out of town for any reason.
Along comes the Eng. Co. from city B. The supermarket lies in city B.
Always willing to help a brother, the City B engine agrees to meet the City A engine at 10:00am every morning at the shopping center, both on the proper side of the city line. The shopping list was passed over the city line, along with the money and you know the rest.
It didn't last too long. Logic prevailled, and logic will probably prevail in Boston, too.
Footnote: I kinda liked the painted line, myself. You don't have to fill out the full NFIRS if your guys can push the car fire over the line before WP (oops... I meant to say City A) gets there.

One interesting thing I have learned from this thread is we need to consolidate documentation. The Yonkers incident I recieved the call narative from YFD (in looking at it, they sent 2 narratives with the incident location info cut off in the fax) so the 2 incidents may have been switched. The MV incident report was handed to me by the DC who was incharge that day (so if there are inacuracies in what was written, those issues never made it into the original incident reports).
All chiefs in the career chiefs were asked to review the study for acuracy prior to the final, and neither of these issues came up.
This shows how critical good documentation is after the fact.
I believe the examples are still valid, as the problems identified still remain.

I for one truly believe that the time has come in today's fire service to seriously consider "Regionalization and/or Consolidation".There are many driving factors that cannot be ignored any longer, with first and foremost being the economy driven cutbacks we see rolling across the country. Many cities and small towns are already sorely understaffed and now are looking to cut even further. It seems it's only a matter of time until the system becomes so insufficient that something will have to be done.
My question is; do we sit idle and wait to see if it happens? Or, do we try to start the momentum and get people to understand that this is a matter of survival. Should we push our governments to start taking a serious look at this option instead of cutting vital services further and putting ourselves and the public at greater risk? The time has come to step up and promote the idea and get people thinking in a proactive direction instead of waiting for the Sky to Fall.