Scottyk107

I'll bite. I really don't correlate those who propose safe fireground practices with writing off civilians. Most fire service leaders who advocate these changes are doing their jobs and looking to protect their members. The thought that our attempt to be safe on the fireground is killing or going to kill more civilians in fires is backed up by what? They are dying because they don't have working smoke detectors. The fact is the vast majority of fireground traumatic fatalities occur when there was no legitimate civilian life hazard. Are there savable civilians who die in fires? Probably but I doubt the cause is a safety mindset in the fire service. If we could get some departments on scene faster and train all our members to be on their A game when they get off the rig we'd be better serving the civilians that count on us. When the homeowner meets you on the lawn and says everyone is out should get treated differently then when you pull up and 3AM and no one meets you. Those the preach things like aggressive search regardless of intelligence gathered during size-up are pandering to the group that wants to hear that. I get it we all want be aggressive and fight fires but being a professional is not about doing want we want to do but doing what we should be do.

Well said.

You may want to look at what a UL inspector would do if he was asked to do the annual ladder test on that Arial, after seeing this picture. The ones I have spoken with have said if you use it beyond its designed limit, they will de-certify it.

Wow, good to know Captain. When you say designed limit do you mean weight or intended use? Always wondered if the way FDNY and other departments used their aerials to take windows voids any warranty or like you stated decertified the ladder.

The only thing that picture proves to me is that some people will do anything they're told. Does anyone believe the rest of the fire service that doesn't take part in this kind of "confidence testing" really all "Sally's"? There is something to be said for a person who has enough presence of mind, self-confidence and sense to hesitate and question some orders, not all of us are 100% right 100% of the time.

I am with you and would have a very hard time doing this in a training situation, unless there is some kind of fall protection or something we cannot determine from the photo. Do any departments still do pompier ladder training? I think much could be said the same about the "confidence building" that was done with these ladders. Im sure a few of the senior members on this board have at some point been on one as a requirement for the academy. Unfortunately I doubt they were in an era where saying no was an option.

So we always hear about this thing called a risk benefit analysis. Apparently most people don't know what it is or don't do them. You should be doing it in your head quickly all the time.

So is this risk worth the benefit?

Depends, is your family member the one on the other side? I agree we shouldn't put ourselves in this kind of danger during training but this is another tool in the toolbox when it hits the fan. While not directly related to this picture or any posts I think the shift in the order of life safety in the fire service over the past few years is disheartening.The risk benefit analysis is something we should always be using but shouldn't use it as a crutch to not do our jobs. Lt. Ray McCormack said it best several years ago in his FDIC keynote speech, "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." If you haven't heard the speech give it a listen, really sums it up. Here is a great read just posted yesterday http://www.backstepfirefighter.com/2014/08/20/women-and-children-first-by-dave-leblanc/ I am sure I will take a beating for this but again I am not promoting any unsafe acts or "John Wayne time", just think we need to take a step back and see what our "progression" looks like from the eyes of the public.

Not my photo but you get the idea

I see your point of view regarding "if you had to... you could".... But this seems too risky to train on for me. No harness, not tied off, and you are putting a level of stress on the ladder that it wasn't designed to hold. I'm not an expert on ground ladder capacities and testing, but the strength of the ground ladder is dependent on much of the force being transmitted down to the ground. In this case 100% of the force is being transmitted the opposite way.... The exact same way that aerial devices typically fail

I agree, would like to see a belay from a high point. From what I ascertained from comments on people that were there, the roof ladder is tied off to the aerial. No mention on what the other side was going to, what and how far is anything below, if there are any passive fall protection. Would definitely be interested in knowing the ladders, both aerial and roof, capabilities used in this manner. Having witnessed ground ladder testing this is the same way that they are set up with a horizontal load placed in the center. Its actually pretty violent to watch and I'm not sure I gain or lose confidence every time that I watch the annual inspections.

This is one out of Ft. Lauderdale in the 80's.

Have seen this floating around on various social media sites today as well. From what I can gather the picture is as stated from a Louisville, KY probie class and is called the ladder bridge. It sounds like it is also practiced in Detroit as well. Some photos of rescues from Detroit, FDNY, and South Florida have also surfaced with some variation of a ladder, anywhere from a 50 foot extension to a short roof ladder, added to the aerial in some variation for extra reach.

Some good depts in FL, but as stated earlier you have to be certified before you can apply. Even then its around 100 applicants for every open position usually. Thousands of unemployed certified firefighters in the state. The academies are for profit so are pumping out classes and therefore applicant competition. Salary and benefits vary from city to city, county to county, most are still pension but we will see how long that lasts.

Thanks X4093k. Its a 2012 Quantum, with a 70 gallon CAFS system run off the cascade system.

They sure did just get a new tiller and I will be planning on shooting it sometime this weekend or very soon !

Tiller went in service as of Friday. I have a few pictures of it but haven't figured out how to post them ha.

I guess the press release is wrong then.

Capitol improvement funds are from the city itself usually by the way of taxes

Why are they moving the Ferrara? Isn't it pretty new?

I don't think any of the new equipment is going to 3rd street. According to the cities press release attached to this thread one engine is going to Station 2 as E-5 with the new ladder (L-3), and the other is going to HQ as E-6. Could be wrong, Jodi or someone would know better.

I believe the Rescue goes O.O.S. most of the time to staff the 3rd truck to keep mutual aid down. Im sure Jodi or someone can clarify. MVPD has had ESU for a long time now. Mostly the f350's but I think they have a large heavy rescue style walk around too.

Just noticed the Florida Salutes Firefighters "Eng60" License plate on E-60.

With the 3rd truck in service I think it has been changed up a bit staffing wise.

Im sure its also a lot easier to film in an open cab rather then a split cab.

That is interesting. Doesn't some pull station's in schools and other high traffic public places release a dye on the persons hand who pulled it? I heard it but have never seen it, would be a great thing to have though.

They finally took the monkey bars off?

Speedy recovery to all that were injured. From the looks of where the bicycle was it looks like the car kept her from being crushed.

At $1500 per "seat" it seems a little pricey.

The E-Series is the van correct? If I read correctly they have not decided on the F series yet. Aren't most ambulances on the F series truck chassis rather ten on the E series van anyway way?

Anyone looking for a new F-150 can probably get this one %50 off! Or it will be like that carfax commercial 2009 F-150.....new bed liner.

I think it was mentioned in another thread, but its a step that also protects the pump panel lights.

I don't think that its new. It doesn't have the new grille.

Be safe and thank you for fighting for our country and freedom.