velcroMedic1987

NYS DMV (not DOT) laws generally recognize emergency vehicles (those allowed to have red lights/siren) as official (read: municipal) vehicles (most fire & PD) and ambulance services. Their is no recognition of public utilities (that are not governmentally owned) as emergency vehicles.

Realistically the type of vehicles they are responding in, will only get to us a few minutes faster with RLS. And the real issue is each crew is covering a very large area. Since the public is not willing to pay higher utility rates, this will likely remain unchanged.

From the NYS VTL:

§ 101. Authorized emergency vehicle. Every ambulance, police vehicle

or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency

vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle,

county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency

response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials

emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of

the United States.

Not just municipal vehicles. Blood delivery vehicles, ambulance, environmental and haz-mat vehicles all qualify for designation as emergency vehicles.

I don't think it has anything to do with the ownership of the utilities or the distances they may have to respond. What qualifies as an emergency? I would say a gas leak qualifies but if someone's lights are out is that an emergency? Who decides?

There are enough problems with police, fire and EMS responding to things without adding a couple thousand more vehicles with lights and sirens.

Reposting something I put on another forum about this topic with a few additions.

While they certainly acted outside their scope of training and equipment, the NYPD Housing Bureau environment isn't like anything we have here in CT. Unless I'm mistaken, most NYPD Housing beats cover a few buildings, those floors are where they patrol. Its not like they flew halfway across Brooklyn, parked their car in front of the hydrant and ran up, these Officers spend their whole shifts in these high-rises. Was taking the elevator a poor decision? I think the answer to that is obvious. But there's another issue at play here.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people in the fire service who are quick to excoriate a couple of Police Officers trying to do something to help the people in their beat, but some of those same people have nothing negative to say when Bubba rolls the tanker over doing 90MPH to an Activated Fire Alarm and neither him nor the guy in the right seat were wearing seat-belts. And why not? Because its out of respect for the families and the department affected.

My point is, members of our service have made our share of missteps, mistakes and/or plain old bad decisions from time to time, but we don't drag people through the mud. We wait until we know the facts and we show respect for those trying to bury their lost before we start picking things apart. Why don't P.O.s Guerra and Rodriguez get the same courtesy? We're on the same team here, folks.

As someone else stated, the NYPD Commissioner has identified a training gap and has stated publicly that they are going to work to improve it to prevent further injuries or Line of Duty Deaths. Which is more than some Fire Departments can say...

My thoughts and prayers are with Officer Guerra's family and his Brothers and Sisters in the NYPD. Hoping for a full and speedy recovery for Officer Rodriguez as well.

You're certain they acted outside their scope of training? By doing what? By answering a radio run? Does that mean that every EMT is acting outside their training and equipmetn when they show up at an ALS call?

Given the information they had, they were investigating a call about a fire and, as it turns out, it was a crime scene.

How many FD's have written procedures/policies for responding to shootings or incidents involving armed suspects (like the Webster fire)?

Officer Guerra died this morning. Rest in peace!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-officer-responded-coney-island-fire-dies-article-1.1750442

Bratton today commented that he called several other PD's to ask if they had a protocol for fires, and they did not, because it is not their job. Fire proof MD fires are not like any other animal. Door frames are generally in block walls with steel frames and doors, in other words, you won't be donkey kicking your way in to rescue anyone. This is going to be an extremely unfortunate event that has probably like someone said been done thousand of times. Except this time they went to a rubbish fire in a public hallway and not an apt fire. Hopefully only one casualty from this is the result, although I would venture to guess she is going to be severely disabled from her lack of oxygen as well.

You don't respond to fires with the intentions of saving anyone unless you are equipped and trained to do so, and with both being done by your employer. Im glad we had two good trucks on the box who are good at FPMD fires to be the ones to rescue these two. Hopefully a miracle will occur.

What was the officer's intentions? Did you speak to them in the elevator?

They just announced that the officer died so we will never know what he thought or what he was going to do when he got to the 13th floor.

bnechis, he won't be promoted and he won't be receiving any medals (except maybe posthumously).

They were sent on a radio run. Bottom line.

My heart goes out to the officers and the families, but sadly this will happen again, because law enforcement in general believes they must respond to every call and do "something".

How is this any different than the fire service or EMS? The FD responds to everything, even when told there is nothing there by a credible source on scene (I know this will undoubtedly start the war stories about this one time, in band camp, when they said nothing was there but something was, blah, blah, blah).

What calls don't we have to go to and on who's authority can we say no, we're not going?

In a department like the NYPD, two beat cops in the projects aren't going to be able to say "we're not going".

I listened to the audio from the PD relating to this incident and we're all overlooking the fact that these two cops were DISPATCHED to an apartment on the 13th floor for a report of a fire. They weren't trying to be heroic, they weren't trying to be firefighters, they were responding to a radio run as they probably had 1000 times just this year.

Absent a policy on how to respond to a reported fire in a high rise project building, these two unwitting victims just answered a call.

The soapbox is misplaced and responsibility will probably be placed on the department for the lack of training, lack of written policies, and the provision of incomplete information. These officers didn't have the benefit of CIDS, or a size-up, or a call-back for additional information. They just answered the call as they always do.

We work in disneyland compared to their housing environment and we can't judge these two officers for their actions.

Rest in peace Officer Guerra. Speedy recovery Officer Rodriguez.

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

brotontop.jpg

Disgraceful! That kid needs a lesson or two!

You're right to the extent that in 2014 very few FDs or municipalities have the money to invest in the development of robotic firefighters. But remember, when the technologies first became available for things like cell phones and computers or TIC's' and SCBA it was the military that spearheaded the research and development of them as they too were thought to be "too expensive" to be practical for widespread use....and now just a scant 30 or so years later they are the norm. Same for manufacturing, how many assembly lines once staffed by people are now automated? Ultimately it all depends on if there's a market for such a system, and I would say that within a relatively short time that market will develop and flourish as politicians and the safety zealots realize that robotic FFs offer them a host of cost and operational "benefits" over humans. Add to that a fire service increasingly populated by generations weened on technology and quite comfortable with it, if not dependent on it, and it's a safe bet that there will even be a drive within our own ranks to place automatons into service. Looking into my crystal ball I see a not too distant future where robots are commonplace in many FDs, there to do the jobs deemed "too dangerous" for humans....like enter burning buildings.... .

You're right about the growth of technology being spurred on by military research and applications. You may even be right about your crystal ball.

However it will probably take 5 employees, 2 engineers, 1 computer specialist and two or three vehicles to mobilize every robotic FF so while it may be safer than humans, it will never cost less.

you need to remember a robot can go into alot more nasty stuff then a human can. this would be cool to test in japan and the reactors i am sure there is some work that can be done there on something. the navy and other branches of the military do things that well can be interesting at times and they also go to the other end of the extreme. Ive seen a ammunition ground transport with a full fire department escort and heavily guard escort to deliver a box of phosphorus 12ga flares to a ship. a little it bit over the top but they had something go horribly wrong at that base once so i can't blame them.

The nuclear industry has a lot more $$$$$ than a fire department. I can't see this catching on in too many places.

220k Salary for a department of ~60 members? Wow, I must be doing something wrong.

More than the Commissioner of the FDNY. That's reasonable. Commanding 60 guys making more than the guy commanding 11000 guys. No wonder NYS is so screwed up.

Nassau County PD was giving a class and handing out FREE nasal Narcan applicators. No prior training required. If you are seriously worried about someone being agitated because you brought them back to the living you should quit your job now.

You should be alert for a patient becoming agitated or combative. That's part of the job.

To suggest that good situational awareness and conflict avoidance is wrong doesn't make any sense at all.

Here in Arizona, our fire dept. paramedics have had Narcan for decades. We're glad that they do. I've seen junkies snap right out of their highs when a dose has been administered. I've also seen junkies who ODed fight to avoid a shot of Narcan....preferring to die over losing their high. We've had to restrain/subdue a number of them. But that's OUR job.

Narcan has saved a lot of lives and I see no reason why paramedics everywhere should not be able to administer it.

If the junkie is fighting with you he(she) probably isn't a candidate for narcan anyway. The whole point is to counter CNS depression brought about by opiate overdose and I never met one of those who had much fight in 'em. Most of them are too out of it to even BREATHE!!!

Was there a time when County PD ESU was disbanded or not in service?

It sort of faded away in the mid-late 1990's and just came back about 3-4 years ago. Friends said that the majority of guys got reassigned or retired and they didn't want to pay for the training to keep it staffed.

A little too low profile for me. I wouldn't pull over for that.

Pretty sure it's two different classes.

This is bull. Back pay?

Up to 10 years of back pay which means being vested and having benefits without ever being on the job. It is a disgrace!

Ok, so this is what I have learned;

Any community can get dry hydrants into the reservoirs, at the communities expense.

The require an engineer to design it. and DEC will issue a revocable 5 year permit.

While their is a lot of hoops to jump through, is it not worth it to protect the community?

1. It's DEP, isn't it?

2. Wouldn't any such construction require an engineer to design it? You're not just going to stick a pipe in the ground and hope for the best, right?

3. Not many hoops and very cheap access to a BIG supply of water. I don't understand why more agencies don't do it.

What exactly is an "executive deputy chief" anyway?

Greenburgh PD, NYPD, Nassau and Suffolk County PD's.

Does Greenburgh PD have an ALS ESU or an EMS division with police paramedics?

NYPD ESU is ALS? Really?

Nassau and Suffolk both have ambulance divisions. Are you saying that all their ESU cops are medics as well?

This is not bashing. Kudos for a dedicated medic.

This is just a procedural question. Under what provision of Article 30 does the medic operate? It's not as an ALSFR and TOWVAC isn't an ALS agency. Seems to be a loophole in Article 30, imagine that?

There have always been limitations/restrictions or whatever you'd like to call it on what plans/HMO's are accepted by facilities and/or doctors.

Why is this any different than any other time?

It was an OVAC vehicle.

I can't believe it took this long to get posted here and nobody replied yet. Disgraceful. An oil pan on a fire engine gets pages or replies but this is ignored. People gotta get their priorities straight.

Preconnected or not, bumper mounted or elsewhere, first due or special call, the victim will still be there when you start the extrication. Others have said it, you have to size-up, stabilize and protect the victim(s) before you start anything so I'll ask the medical side of the house - will one minute make any difference in patient outcome?

I guess it wasn't posted because there was no "incident" to report. The "rescue" was completed by civilians before anyone else arrived so what's there to post?