firecapt32

Great topic Chief==I think that most Fire Departments should take a real close look at them selves in a mirror and see what they see. Are they stuck in the 70's or 60's or worse yet 50's. We see time after time departments buying bigger--bigger--biggest--bester things. We all realize that especially in the volunteer service there is a erosion of manpower. In the career side its do more with less-- basically it's the same thing. How do we get everyone into the 21st century is the question.. better recruitment? incentives? training? community involvement?? getting home to our loved ones is a priority --- as I say in my classes---you didn't start the fire--- you joined to help your community. you cant do that if your not trained properly. 5 points I strive for -- get there--get there safely--do your job--do your job the best you can--get home to your loved ones.
I guess the answer might be in full disclosure. I once knew a Fire Chief that every meeting he went to stated that he did not have sufficient manpower.
So Chief there is not easy answer to your question just more questions

All dependent on the service your town expects from its fire department. You get some of these tiny towns out west in the middle of nowhere, where you get 2 guys in traffic vests and hard hats because the community contracts its "fire service" out to a couple of yokels in a wagon from 1950 that barely runs.
Are most of our politicians/residents ignorant to the level of service their fire departments actually provide in comparison to what they're paying for it? Absolutely. But I'll bet the same happens for the police, DPW, and education services as well.
All that being said, you're absolutely right. Its not a career/volunteer issue if you have a 100% union career department that only has 5 guys split between an Engine, Truck and Ambulance? Guess what, you can't handle a fire without mutual aid. If you have a volunteer department with 3 stations, 4 engines, 2 rescues, 2 ladder trucks, and 9 Chief cars, but you can only get 6 guys for a fire at noon on a Tuesday, 5 of which are old enough to collect social security? Same deal.
I'm not sure if its reasonable for a town of 10,000 people to pay for enough staffing for a full NFPA-compliant response of 12-14 Firefighters for a residential structure fire. (Source) All the more reason to consolidate to one combination department. Less equipment, standardized training and SOPs, and you ensure that everyone in the area gets the same level of service for their dollar.

Do we owe the public the truth about their fire depts. ability to handle a structure fire? What I mean by that is we ask the taxpayers for money to run the dept, yet in truth, on any given day at any given time, it takes more than THAT dept to control the situation. Forget career / volunteer bs, this is across the board. This is not about the big one or needing a tanker/tender shuttle operation, this is the room and contents, fire that your patch on your sleeve proudly says WE CAN HANDLE.
Mutual aid to cover the empty fire houses, no problem.
Why is it the neighboring taxpayers responsibility to send its tax dollar funded dept to assist with your BASIC fire.
something is wrong here, and the longer we put our heads in the sand......................

FDNY does not send a few units on Mutual aid. They send a 1st alarm assignment and they expect when they come to be put to work. I have never seen them come and cover.

ok, Maybe in the writers area or mind the fire service is alive and vibrant. From what I see, the fire service is in deep trouble. Volunteer membership is declining, career depts. are being cut to the bone, or are stagnant.
I believe todays firefighters are much better trained, and are more dedicated than previous generations. But there are not enough of them to fill the voids, at least in our area. Due to the increase in call volume, training, state and federal mandates, the fire service is finding itself hard pressed to keep up with todays conditions. We have too many Commissioners, Chiefs, and elected individuals, who are more worried about money and votes than fixing a broken system. A house fire today requires mutual aid. when there was more members in the dept. there was pride in taking care of your own business.
State and federal mandates, Bailout systems, 2 in 2 out, fast, NFPA, have been enacted to create a safer fire ground, But no more ff's to do the job. The patch on your uniform says XYZ fire dept, yet the truth is XYZ plus 5 surrounding depts. is what is needed for your average house fire. The writer doesn't like the bashing, but what is actually being bashed? the truth? The public is fed up with high taxes. Police depts. are consolidating, At some point, somehow the laws will have to change to allow fire depts. to do the same. Then and only then, at least in this area, will fd's be as alive and vibrant as the writer states.
This is just my opinion, let the bashing begin lol.

Based on some of these posts, I can't help but wonder if some of you were dropped on your heads as babies. What is even more concerning is how little some people know, armchair quarterback and jump to conclusions.
I have a fairly good amount of training regarding trains and train emergencies. I have - what I believe - is a wealth of knowledge of the fire service, including resources in this county and around us. I also have responded to and run a handful of incidents involving mass-casualties.
I have never - nor has 99.5% of you - had an incident like this. The people running it did a TOP NOTCH JOB, and the fact that some of you are sitting back, typing away and criticizing any decisions of the Incident Commander or any others at this incident just fortifies why I have little faith that we can ever become better as a county. Some of you posting here are officers, past officers or - God help us - aspiring officers in your respective agencies. As the Maitre D' in Ferris Bueller's Day off said, "I weep for the future."
/rant
And for the record, this is me, as a person, voicing my opinion which has no reflection of any affiliation I have or have had in the past.

With this incident I doubt that very much. Seems like you just like to start arguments or bash departments without having the facts. In other topics as well. What FACTS do you have to prove your ridiculous claim that there was "favoritism"? Do you also claim to know all about dispatching and incident command as well? The departments have run cards that specify who they want for mutual aid, and Incident Commanders request specific resources.

6 people lost their lives and others injured and this is what's bothering you? Get over it. Stop with the favoritism nonsense and the boo-hoo why didn't they call X, Y or Z.
Resources were called as needed during what I could only imagine to be a chaotic and overwhelming scene.

Its not about the fine, its about the finding, which will be used against the village in any civil litigation from the families.
The lesson is ignorance of the law is no defense (particularly when DOL can prove you knew the law at some point in the past)

best in your retirement--its not so bad--in a few weeks you will wonder how you ever went to work at all!!! now you can do things you always wanted to do but above all stay healthy make the system pay you for a long time
be safe my friend
retired 13 years in May

best in your retirement--its not so bad--in a few weeks you will wonder how you ever went to work at all!!! now you can do things you always wanted to do but above all stay healthy make the system pay you for a long time
be safe my friend
retired 13 years in May

Well guys after 43 years as a Port Chester Firefighter [ 18 years very active volunteer working at DPW then getting the dream job getting paid to do what I love to do this is my last day. It didn't end the way I wanted it too but away I go . I was fortunate to catch the war years when we went out every day for a job worked side by side with many dept.'s and made a lot of life long friends on mutual aid. I saw a lot of death and sorrow [ Gulliver's 24 DOA Stouffer's 26 DOA 9/11 world trade center ] and saved a few along the way but my greatest call was closing a large window [ life savers building ] for a 84 year old lady who was freezing because her window was open and she needed help. The next day she baked a apple pie for me and my partner. So I say good bye to it all and hope that I left a small mark somewhere. To my 2 sons that are following or trying to follow in my foot step's keep up the good work in this most rewarding profession . Good luck to the guy's that are left on my job and hope that thing's get better for you and the people we were sworn to protect.
Angelo Sposta [ Retired Local #1971 ]

I can't see any reason that this gentleman doesn't receive what is due to him. Good luck with your case, and may you remain cancer-free!

I remember flying up there for the funerals---dam cold we froze our asses off standing in line for the brothers.

I remember flying up there for the funerals---dam cold we froze our asses off standing in line for the brothers.

We can mandate whatever training we want as the "minimum," but what a department does for it's members after that is what truly separates the "men from the boys."
There's departments that take your FF1 and consider it "enough." That's wrong no matter how you slice it.
Training + experience = good firefighters. We all know "that guy" who has taken every class, but rarely shows up on calls and when they do, you wish they didn't.

If you're saying that I'm vollie bashing because I don't think advocating lower standards for volunteer FF than career FF is right then I'm guilty.
If you're saying that supporting a single FF training standard for the state of NY is vollie bashing then I'm guilty.
I am equally tired of coming to this site to hear that people are going out and doing the job with un or under qualified people, inadequate numbers, and a completely blind and or deaf administration that condones it.
If you've ever read any of my posts, you know that I'm equally critical of the so-called career or combination departments that respond with 1-2 FF per apparatus. That's just stupid!
If lobbying for a single standard isn't being part of the solution, please enlighten me. What is?

lets get back to the subject-- Greenville fire was a perfect example of how mutual aid is expected to work. no hesitation no waste of time get the mutual aid coming--knowing what your are going to get--have a plan of what to do with them--establish a command post--keep in contact with all units and release them with thanks ASAP.
How this relates to the new FF1 I am not sure. FF1 is here. period I understand that WCDES is having their first FF1 starting and of Feb we will see how things shake out.

lets get back to the subject-- Greenville fire was a perfect example of how mutual aid is expected to work. no hesitation no waste of time get the mutual aid coming--knowing what your are going to get--have a plan of what to do with them--establish a command post--keep in contact with all units and release them with thanks ASAP.
How this relates to the new FF1 I am not sure. FF1 is here. period I understand that WCDES is having their first FF1 starting and of Feb we will see how things shake out.

lets get back to the subject-- Greenville fire was a perfect example of how mutual aid is expected to work. no hesitation no waste of time get the mutual aid coming--knowing what your are going to get--have a plan of what to do with them--establish a command post--keep in contact with all units and release them with thanks ASAP.
How this relates to the new FF1 I am not sure. FF1 is here. period I understand that WCDES is having their first FF1 starting and of Feb we will see how things shake out.

1. To generalize that career and volunteer departments don't get along is not a fact. There are plenty of departments that work perfectly fine with one another regardless of how they are staffed. Sure you have isolated knuckleheads on both sides who flat-out hate one another, but the overall majority of ALL OF US don't fall into this category.
2. Do career firefighters have a hire minimum requirement - yes. Should volunteers, yes - but I STRONGLY feel that all of which is covered in the career academy is not applicable to volunteers - specifically the codes portion. A firefighter, whether paid or not, should have the basic education to respond to and mitigate just about anything we are sent to - and at minimum, we all need awareness level training of those specialized operations we may get sent to - but aren't necessarily trained for, staffed for or equipped for. IE: High-angle rescue, water rescue, confined space rescue, etc. It literally baffles me that awareness training on all of this isn't considered part of our minimum training.
3. No training requirements for career chiefs? Interesting. Although since most come from a lower level rank and usually have experience in that role, I don't think this is as bad as it sounds. Granted we all know how politics comes in to play and the best candidates tend to get bent over from time to time...
4. I wish you all a happy and safe holiday season. I don't care if you are paid or volunteer, I just hope you all make it home safe at the end of your day.

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.
So the Training is out there just in different formats.
Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??
OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.
The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.
So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.
So the Training is out there just in different formats.
Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??
OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.
The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.
So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.
So the Training is out there just in different formats.
Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??
OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.
The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.
So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.
So the Training is out there just in different formats.
Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??
OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.
The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.
So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.