firecapt32

Since NYS Law is clear that you must have Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations BEFORE you can respond to ANY Calls (beyond being a spectator), why do we need FF Recruit II?
29CFR 1910.120 (q) (6):
Training. Training shall be based on the duties and function to be performed by each responder of an emergency response organization. The skill and knowledge levels required for all new responders, those hired after the effective date of this standard, shall be conveyed to them through training before they are permitted to take part in actual emergency operations on an incident. Employees who participate, or are expected to participate, in emergency response, shall be given training in accordance with the following paragraphs:
The effective date is March 7, 1996

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!!
Train train train when you think you have had enough train more
again just my thoughts

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!!
Train train train when you think you have had enough train more
again just my thoughts

It will probably take a slew of law suites to make any changes,, and believe me there will be law suites---failure to provide adequate fire protection!! a million dollar truck or two wont hold up in court as adequate protection.. neither will" we do the best we can with what we have" or the famous one "We are only volunteers--a career department will cost millions of dollars" Lawyers will have a field day with those.
the fire service is and looks to be always a reactionary organization--not a proactive organization.
just my 2 cents

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!!
Train train train when you think you have had enough train more
again just my thoughts

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!!
Train train train when you think you have had enough train more
again just my thoughts

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

It will probably take a slew of law suites to make any changes,, and believe me there will be law suites---failure to provide adequate fire protection!! a million dollar truck or two wont hold up in court as adequate protection.. neither will" we do the best we can with what we have" or the famous one "We are only volunteers--a career department will cost millions of dollars" Lawyers will have a field day with those.
the fire service is and looks to be always a reactionary organization--not a proactive organization.
just my 2 cents

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

Yes. As an assistant chief, if I call for mutual aid for tankers and manpower...I want that manpower to be ready, able and trained to fight fires. Usually you will get a mix of members; some interior, some exterior, even some who are brand new members that have new turnouts on (but cant use them) and are basically good for "gopher" duties only. And in some cases you get more explorers riding the rig then firefighters.
Same for accident scenes; I shouldnt have to ask if you are trained to extricate someone from a vehicle, if you dont have AVET then you shouldnt be on the rescue truck when it rolls to an MVA.
My bitch for years has been to adopt the same standards as EMT's in our state. They have to go through a certification process involving training (classroom and hands on), and two tests in order to receive your license. Then you have to re-cert every three years. THATS the way it should be for firefighters, but I feel a good re-cert term for us would be five years. Show up, demonstrate you still know the basic skills in the training facility, take a test and your re-certified. Fail...and you have to re-take the training. Lots of people hate the idea, yet they still bitch on these forums that training standards should be taken more seriously state wide for firefighters....I feel this idea is a good option; is it the ultimate cure for the problem? Never. But its a good option that should be considered and revised to suit our needs.
But I agree; same training for every firefighter, paid or volunteer, big city or small rural farm community with one engine and 6 members. Same across the board so every "firefighter" on scene can do every task required of them.

Next he will be going after the Triborough Doctrin and for people who dont know what it is.
The Triborough Doctrine - The Facts
In the early 1980's the New York State Legislature passed legislation that amended the Taylor Law. The Triborough Amendment was passed as a counter to the fact that NYS public employees do not have the right to strike.
Most public employees don't think about the Triborough Doctrine or remember its importance. There are some in the NYS legislature that would like to eliminate this important legislation.
What does the Triborough Doctrine do?
Prevents an employer from changing terms and conditions of employment until a new contract is negotiated. Requires empoyers to negotiate in good faith, in exchange employees are protected from striking. Employers changing terms and conditions of employment after a contract expires but before a new contract commit an improper practice.
What effect would a repeal of the Triborough Amendment have?
Step increases, increments and longevity pay amounts could be stopped. Employers could reduce work hours and workers' pay and change benefits after a contract expires. Holiday and sick pay could be eliminated. Health coverage could be reduced and employees' share of the premium could be increased. Employers could implement a contract on its employees if no agreement is achieved. The Triborough Amendment puts UPSEU members on a level playing field. An elimination of this important legislation or even a watered down version would have a devastating effect on public employees throughout the state of New York.
For those wondering if their legislators working to stop public employees of this important legislation believe public employees would be granted the right to strike to be law, they don't. They want a one way bargaining process.

not sure if its over board or not but I think in the public interest that it is a good idea--the public are the people we are sworn to protect so thier faith in the department is paramount. Hopefully it is one bad apple we do not need the whole barrel to get a rotten stench to it because of the one incident. So better to be safe then sorry.
All departments do a arson background check why not a full criminal check.do we want felons or convicted child molesters in our departments or people that have committed crimes like burgulary or som kinf of home invasion.
How many department do a full background check?
I hope this is a isolated incident and everyone gets back to doing what they swore to do --- protect the publis the best that we can.

The county would not allow any apparatus on the apron of the dam so there was no way to draft any water from the basin.

I am reading a lot of great comments on this subject. One standard seems to be the common thread.
Lets try and agree on some common "facts" there are well trained firefighters both career and volunteer.
Having said that. ITS THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SWORN TO PROTECT THAT DESERVE THE BEST/WELL TRAINED FIREFIGHTERS.
One fire-- ten fires--fifty fires how many does it take to injury and or kill a firefighter ---answer one
If you want to help your community and cannot make the common standard--and that my friends is only the minium-- go to the parks and receration and grab a rake or broom, I am sure can help cleanup.
Again lets not lose sight of the big picture--We as firefighters are in business to protect the people of our town/village/city/fire district. We do not send un trained police out there why do we send untrained or undertrained fire personnel out there?? dont even think the answer is because IT'S Free. or they do the best they can that dosent make it in this century.
I have listened to many of the following: you cant expect us to put in all thoses hours. we take time away from our families. We do the best we can it doesnt fly in 2013
I grew up playing basball--third base for the little league Cubs-- I know i cant play for the Yankees--wait maby I can but you get the picture. Lets all be major leagures here. ONE STANDARD thats not too much to ask to protect our citizens.
EOR---end of rant

I am reading a lot of great comments on this subject. One standard seems to be the common thread.
Lets try and agree on some common "facts" there are well trained firefighters both career and volunteer.
Having said that. ITS THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SWORN TO PROTECT THAT DESERVE THE BEST/WELL TRAINED FIREFIGHTERS.
One fire-- ten fires--fifty fires how many does it take to injury and or kill a firefighter ---answer one
If you want to help your community and cannot make the common standard--and that my friends is only the minium-- go to the parks and receration and grab a rake or broom, I am sure can help cleanup.
Again lets not lose sight of the big picture--We as firefighters are in business to protect the people of our town/village/city/fire district. We do not send un trained police out there why do we send untrained or undertrained fire personnel out there?? dont even think the answer is because IT'S Free. or they do the best they can that dosent make it in this century.
I have listened to many of the following: you cant expect us to put in all thoses hours. we take time away from our families. We do the best we can it doesnt fly in 2013
I grew up playing basball--third base for the little league Cubs-- I know i cant play for the Yankees--wait maby I can but you get the picture. Lets all be major leagures here. ONE STANDARD thats not too much to ask to protect our citizens.
EOR---end of rant

I am reading a lot of great comments on this subject. One standard seems to be the common thread.
Lets try and agree on some common "facts" there are well trained firefighters both career and volunteer.
Having said that. ITS THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SWORN TO PROTECT THAT DESERVE THE BEST/WELL TRAINED FIREFIGHTERS.
One fire-- ten fires--fifty fires how many does it take to injury and or kill a firefighter ---answer one
If you want to help your community and cannot make the common standard--and that my friends is only the minium-- go to the parks and receration and grab a rake or broom, I am sure can help cleanup.
Again lets not lose sight of the big picture--We as firefighters are in business to protect the people of our town/village/city/fire district. We do not send un trained police out there why do we send untrained or undertrained fire personnel out there?? dont even think the answer is because IT'S Free. or they do the best they can that dosent make it in this century.
I have listened to many of the following: you cant expect us to put in all thoses hours. we take time away from our families. We do the best we can it doesnt fly in 2013
I grew up playing basball--third base for the little league Cubs-- I know i cant play for the Yankees--wait maby I can but you get the picture. Lets all be major leagures here. ONE STANDARD thats not too much to ask to protect our citizens.
EOR---end of rant

I am reading a lot of great comments on this subject. One standard seems to be the common thread.
Lets try and agree on some common "facts" there are well trained firefighters both career and volunteer.
Having said that. ITS THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SWORN TO PROTECT THAT DESERVE THE BEST/WELL TRAINED FIREFIGHTERS.
One fire-- ten fires--fifty fires how many does it take to injury and or kill a firefighter ---answer one
If you want to help your community and cannot make the common standard--and that my friends is only the minium-- go to the parks and receration and grab a rake or broom, I am sure can help cleanup.
Again lets not lose sight of the big picture--We as firefighters are in business to protect the people of our town/village/city/fire district. We do not send un trained police out there why do we send untrained or undertrained fire personnel out there?? dont even think the answer is because IT'S Free. or they do the best they can that dosent make it in this century.
I have listened to many of the following: you cant expect us to put in all thoses hours. we take time away from our families. We do the best we can it doesnt fly in 2013
I grew up playing basball--third base for the little league Cubs-- I know i cant play for the Yankees--wait maby I can but you get the picture. Lets all be major leagures here. ONE STANDARD thats not too much to ask to protect our citizens.
EOR---end of rant

I remember several fire at the plant including a propane explosion in Nov of '68 and a fire in the paint section in early '70 I believe. The 68 explosion causes injuries and damaged apparatus but luckly no one was killed.
I also remember before the expansion of GM the hugh ball field--football seperate baseball field--several tennis courts--5 -or 6 smaller ball fields for little league. Lots of room for us kids to play and not get in trouble--kinda

It looks like a larger regional Fire Department might be the only thing that could get a handle on things like this. Chiefs seem to join into things like the Southern Westchester Spec Ops Task Force and after a couple of years thay either "unjoin" or change their piece of the plan without telling anyone.
At least a regional FD would be structured and goal oriented fpr the area as opposed to the committee system with no teeth that we have now.

Barry,
Lets talk about 2 of the squads that were disbanded. 1 Was Squad 5 that was handled by Eastchester and Scarsdale. Eastchester is allegedly with Mt Vernon now. Lets say there is an incident in NYC trains are going to be stopping in New Rochelle because they have a hospital, Trains will stop in Yonkers because they have 2 hospitals, Trains will stop in Mt Vernon because they have a hospital, and guess what trains will stop in Bronxville because there is a hospital.
So now lets talk about decon at these locations, how are we going to decide who gets the trailer? and the needed equipment?
Also Mt Vernon has 3 train stations as does Eastchester. Perhaps the people that made the decision to do away with squad 5 should really speak to the people that do the work. The plan may look good from some meeting room however not in practical application.
Captain Richard Dempsey
Eastchester Fire Dept
Haz Mat Tech

are we damed if we do and damed if we dont?? osha and every other organization says things like 2 in/2 out. We are doing more with les--we all know that/ BUT what if some one gets hurt?? will the village /town/city/district take the responsibility and say that they were understaffed??
My thoughs every Fire Chief should go on the record with their AHJ stating that they are understaffed but they will do what ever it takes to protect the public but that they understand the ramifications of what can happen if a firefighter gets injured.
It might not help but at least some one is on record if the shi* hits the fan.
again just my view being a incident commander is not an easy job and not for the weak at heart.

are we damed if we do and damed if we dont?? osha and every other organization says things like 2 in/2 out. We are doing more with les--we all know that/ BUT what if some one gets hurt?? will the village /town/city/district take the responsibility and say that they were understaffed??
My thoughs every Fire Chief should go on the record with their AHJ stating that they are understaffed but they will do what ever it takes to protect the public but that they understand the ramifications of what can happen if a firefighter gets injured.
It might not help but at least some one is on record if the shi* hits the fan.
again just my view being a incident commander is not an easy job and not for the weak at heart.

No it’s not time to throw out or rewrite the books on fire ground tactics. The IC needs to take into account his staffing and their abilities when planning his initial attack.
On all incidents the IC needs to quickly determine the following “what do I have, what do I need, and where is it going” to quickly and safely mitigate the situation while keeping in mind the incident priorities, 1 – Life Safety; 2 – Incident Stabilization; 3 – property Conservation. The IC first priority is the safety of his personnel and then of the public they are sworn to protect, with this in mind we sometimes have to push the envelope and make an aggressive interior search with reduced manpower. However, lacking any reason to believe that there may be victims within the structure and aggressive interior attack should only be perform when the proper personnel arrive on the scene.
Remember, we the willing, lead by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungratefully, we have done so much with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing!