nfd2004

Clearly I have little knowledge of the workings of your local FD's and the politics, but in reading 628's website I see them being honest about something that affects city residents.
First Respnder EMS ties up FD units, for how long is determined by the number of buses on the street at any given time. Like it or not, For Profit EMS services generally have to have all their units in constant motion to remain profitable, therefore they're like the airlines, they have fewer seeats than customers. This is not a reflection of the dedicated individuals who staff these buses, who likely feel the pain of constantly rushing call to call, knowing that the delay of their own definitive care may be detrimental to their patients. These people don't make the decisions on how many ambulances are in a given area, but in fact must work with what their given. This short staffing of EMS units is how a fore profit system stays afloat in times like these and how they pull in profits in better times.
For YFD or other FD's that have similar First Responder systems, the programs are double edged swords: they're clearly out on the street more often positively interacting with their local citizens, but they're also tied up unavaible for other emergencies, a real issue when you're already short staffed and have fewer apparatus and stations than your city and incidents indicate. This is big boy rules, peoples livliehoods are threatened and those who remain after cuts jobs' just get more dangerous. Less personnel, less companies mean, longer times for ventialtion, or water on the fire. Fewer personel make tough work even tougher as the same tasks must be completed by fewer people.
While I'm not looking to stirs this further, I've yet to see anyone that was incensed by the website actually state that the delayed response times are not an issue?

The union has one concern, take care of its own members. I do not see it as an attack on Empress per se, but lets face it, if another ambulance company were to offer the same service at less cost to the City of Yonkers, Empress would be gone. The city bean counters have no loyalty, just cold hard cash calculations. I see as more against the city. Lets face it, if the City could save money on EMS, do you really think it will go to YFD? I would almost guarantee that it would be spent elsewhere.

Thanks "sfd...", and hopefully, we can get a few more from some of the other cities and towns of the Nutmeg State (Ct).

Thanks "sfd...", and hopefully, we can get a few more from some of the other cities and towns of the Nutmeg State (Ct).

You are probadly right Pete, I shouldn't be writing on here, how "I" think things will work out for the Stamford fire Dept. But as you probadly know, recently I visited the Fairfax County fire Dept in Virginia. I know a few times either on this site or one of the others, we have discussed how well depts in the Maryland, Virginia area operate as Combo Depts, and often used them to suggest that Stamford follow their footsteps.
I have a very good friend who is a volunteer firefighter in Fairfax County, Va. he is assigned to fire Station 10 which is the busiest in the County, and maybe one of the busiest in the Country. He is a retired U.S. Army Colonial and West Point Graduate. Currently he is in his early 60s and in Excellent physical shape. He must pass all the same physicals, required to undergo most of the same training, and for that he gets to ride one of their rigs out of that station, one shift every eight days. Of course more if he wants.
When he reports in he goes to the company officer (usually Career Captain) and ask where he should ride. It is up to that officer to tell him that he ride the Engine, the Ladder, the Medic Unit, or the BLS Unit. When he goes to a call with them, he recieves his instructions from the career officers or members. It might be moving around furniture at a medical call, or helping to stretch that first important line. His due response area is very similiar to that of Stamford. High rises, wood frames, major highway etc.
He has told me and I quote: "it is not the job of the volunteer firefighters to cut back on their manning but to add to it". From the impression I got, the career guys have no problem with him, or even the other volunteer firefighters. AND it goes the other way too.
Besides being a Retired Army Colonel, West Point Grad, he also has TWO Masters Degrees. his father was a Batt Chief in the FDNY and he now has a son on the Boston Fire Dept. He certainly makes me look bad by ALL Standards. Yet, he loves being a Volunteer Firefighter in the Fairfax County Dept. In fact, he has invited me down again in the spring, along with many members from another web site. I'm sure he'd be happy to show you around and let you know how things work out there if you ever want to visit the place.
Anybody from the Fairfax County area on here to confirm what I said ?

New York Post
NY1
Most of my family is either FDNY or NYPD. One of my own family members graduated this class. I was able to attend this event, it was an amazing experience.
Heres a shot I got towards the end of the ceremony, right after Bloomberg's speech.

Stay Safe Our Brothers In Blue!!

Some CT run stats for 2012:
Stamford, CT FD: 10,940
New Haven, CT FD: 24,857
Waterbury, CT FD: 18,274
Fairfield, CT FD: 9,573

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Not only did he reach that mark, but I must say that I always enjoy reading his post. Presents his facts well. Thank you for your contributations.

Part 3.
Disclaimer- my apologies for spelling and grammatical errors in previous and future posts- there is a lot to cover here and I don't have time or emergy to dot the i's and cross the t's- I hope I am making some sense to most of you nonetheless.
Here we go...I agree with the poster who stated that Empress is "clinically progressive" and who espoused the value of Empress' EMD pre-arrival instructions. However, I should point out that the "Haz-Mat Special Ops support to YFD" provided by Empress is done with equipment purchased with federal grant money (UASI and MMRS), and training conducted by YFD. The nature of this support is generally to provide a secondary technical decon only.
One point that was made by a brother YFD member, above, should be emphasized. Empress has so very many dedicated and professional members. However, the majority of these individuals do not spend the majority of their working lives in EMS, and particularly not with Empress, although some do. Many Empress employees move on to Fire or Police Department careers, elsewhere in emergency medicine, or on to other careers altogether. The Empress work force is nowhere as stable as YFD. This is just reality and I believe is pertinent. I won't give my opinion regarding the effect of a stable vs. a more transient workforce because it is just that, my opinion, and we all know what those are worth. However, these facts should be provided so that all of the stakeholders (particularly city residents) might be able to deternine relevance.

Part 2- Now, to some of the misinformation that has been posted on this site in regard to the YFD First Responder Program.
Misinformation response # 1. This work constitutes a large majority of our responses, or our overall work. This is not accurate. First Responder runs account for approximately 55 % of our incidents. However, each of these incidents requires the response of only one Engine Company, and the Engine Company is generally back in service in 20 minutes or less, sometimes longer of course. Obviously to anyone familiar with the Fire Service, the typical incident any Fire Department responds to (the other approximately 45% ) involves many more apparatus and personnel for significantly longer periods of time. A First Responder run with utilizing one apparatue and 4 Firefighters for 15 minutes is one incident. A 3 Alarm Fire utilizing 14 apparatus, other vehicles, and a total of 63 or so Firefighters for six or seven hours is also one incident, kapeesh?? Furthermore, the "workload" of a Fire Department is not only responses, but also the necessary training, inspections, cleaning, maintenance of vehicles, equipment, etc.
Misinformation response # 1a. Therefore, although the rumored elimination of the First Responder Program may (not my area of expertise) allow certain contractual minimum personnel levels to no longer be adhered to, it will not obviate the necessity to have adequate Fire Companies and personnel available for Firefighting and other emergencies. Sure, no FD is as busy as twenty years ago with fire duty, and certainly not as busy as 30 or 40 years ago. Nonetheless, fires do still occur, and adequate personnel and equipment is necessary for this. There is a very valid reason that similar sized city FD's all over the U.S., and in fact the industrialized world conduct First Responder Programs- the very nature of a Fire Department requires Firefighters and their equipment to be readily available for guess what, fires! However, this ready availability of individuals who are trained to handle emergencies and have apparatus to quickly respond allows city sized Fire Departments to have personnel available to supplement the primary EMS response with First Response capability. This supplementation is able to be done by Firefighters who, for the most part, will need to be there, available, anyway! The Firefighters do not get tied up with transport (generally), transfer to the medical facility, PCR's, cleaning the ambulance, etc. So, they are able to go right back into service as soon as the patient has been placed in the ambulance, or in many cases, sooner, right?
Misinformation response # 2. Oh, here's an easy one- we have 4 Firefighters per apparatus (3 Firefighters and a Company Officer), not 5. That is the manning we have had per apparatus for over 30 years. It's hard to understand how any individual who would purport to understand the situation in Yonkers could state that this is all about reducing manning from 5 to 4 per apparatus, or words to that effect.
Misinformation response # 3. The majority of these runs are nuisance runs. Well, that depends on what you consider a nusiance run. The fact is that if we know in advance the situation is not a true medical emergency, then neither the Fire Department nor the emergency ambulance service shoud respond, right? The problem, which has been studied at the highest levels for many years, is how to deduce from the initial phone call what is and what isn't a "nuisance call"..I don't know how to quantify how many of these runs that YFD (and Empress) responds to are not true medical emergencies, but admittedly the number is significant, as it is in EMS systems almost everywhere. No one wants to respond on any type of alarm where we are not needed, and as soon as someone can find out how to deduce true emergency from nuisance run every time, please let us know!
END OF PART 2 TO BE CONTINUED

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...
I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....
I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to lose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...
I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical runs when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that people who we were sworn to protect, particularly children, could be having a life threatening medical emergency that we would be able to assist with, yet we would not be called.
I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless, because of situations such as I have described above, I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, it is my understanding that Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services plus the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract. I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to ressponse times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?
Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder rum for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and often, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

State the facts, The city wants to close two companies. Making a Department that is already spread thin, even thinner.
The city knows very well Empress could never duplicate our service. Not because of the Empress employees, but simply because our services are dedicated to the residents of Yonkers. We are always within the city limits, unlike Empress, who will do what they can to make a buck. So there is no "claim" that Empress is for profit, it's the truth. You did fail to mention this "free" service you will be providing will cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. Also, "your mostly at your own cost" Haz-mat equipment was provided to you by the taxpayer, through the fire department.
As stated you'll be receiving A MEDIC, who will not be able to transport and who will not be able to provide CPR efficiently. As you emphaszed on, our very good pay, benefits and great pension ensure that our staffing leveles are well maintained. Unlike Empress, where there is constantly new faces, there is consistancy in our department. Our manning not only Gaurantees when you dial 9-1-1 you will have a quick response, but also that if additional aide is needed, it's there. What will Empress do when they are short of staff?
Many times our members have been asked to drive the bus or ride in the back because the Empress crew could not handle the situation with only two people. So when you say "we dump the patient care" on you to do the "meat and potatoes", I have to disagree. Because we're doing the "meat and potatoes" before Empress is even there. Again, this is not an attack on the crews, it merely states the truth. In fact, their Local should be concerned with the greater risks their members are going to be taking. Empress would have to fly through intersections, drive at dangerous speeds just to make it there in 8-10 minutes. Not to mention other risks like responding to projects where the YFD would send two units, or lifting heavy patients. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
I also find it ironic that you state that our full time job is fighting fires, not EMS. Yet you also state that 80% of our calls are EMS related, contradicting yourself, no?
628 is in no way attacking the Union, so please do not come on here instigating that our union is attacking the union of the Empress employees. Your post seems like more of an advertisement, scripted for you by the city, to turn the private sector unions against public sector unions. The facts are the city is breaking a contractual agreement with 628 and making an agreement with Empress without putting it out for bid. Back room deals which are all too common in Yonkers, and result in the taxpayer paying more for less. So again, please stop claiming that we are trashing another union. But if this what you must do, I guess desperate times do call for desperate measures.

I'm just curious how many of you people commenting on this thread are even from Yonkers? Why does this matter, you may ask? Well, TO ME, its matter quite a bit, because we, the residents see and experience the difference between Empress and the YFD. I have to admit, I'm very shocked by most of the comments on this thread. These firefighters, like many of you claim to be (professional or volly), are fighting for their jobs, lives and traditions of a fire department, especially one as traditional and proud as the Yonkers FD. Were any of you at the city council meetings listening the higher ups of Empress either lie or completely stutter over the facts? I'm willing to bet NO, you werent. But you dare accuse the union members of "sensationalism" or using "dramatics", or heres the best one, "I don't even go to Yonkers for anything, so I personally couldn't care less how this whole situation plays out." I mean, WOW!!! Spoken like a true A-hole who really doesnt care about his fellow man...kinda contradictory for someone who works in emergency servies, wouldnt you say?
I was a proud city cop working many times with FD members...and despite the stereotypical butting of heads between the two agencies, we worked quite well, with us normally arriving first on scene, them shortly after, and EMS minutes, sometimes many minutes later! Thats not a knock on EMS, its simply a fact! But rather than support this proud department and go after the corrupt politicians trying to save a buck for their own christmas bonus, you post websites showing how Firefighters arent even as important as they use to be, or how they arent worth the money. I bet you also agree that this city has too many cops right? But when you wait 3 minutes for a cop to show up, you probably cry that it took him too long and you'd wonder why. Sounds to me like you are a tad bit jealous or just disgruntled. Yonkers has become the third most populous city in the state. This is a serious department with serious work, where lives are lost.
End of the day, this isnt about "taking jabs", but simply about men and women who are fighting for the very same thing you'd be fighting for if you were in their shoes.
I dont post normally on this site, and I definitely dont like to stir things up, but I'm just baffled by these remarks coming from other emergency service workers.

Years ago, NFIRS defined a structure fire as a fire that actually did damage to the structure. There were two categories in the Type of Fire sectionof the incident report that addressed this. One was Structure fire as I just defined, the other was Fire in a structure that did not cause damage to the structure. I thought that was a pretty good criteria and I don't know why it changed. It might be that the fire service wanted to say they had a lot of structure fires and one way to do that it to widen the category to include things like "Food on the stove/out on arrival."
far as Working fire goes, I always considered a worker as a fire that required the FULL use of at least one 1 3/4 line. That's not pulling it and giving a squirt to a trashcan. It's when you need the full 100gpm. So a car fire is not a worker. Three cars in a shopping center lot is. A garbage can fire in a private dwelling is not a worker. The same trash can in a nursing home may. A "using all companies" is not necessarily a worker either. Here in the Virginia Beach area, they use the term "Working incident" for a non-fire incident that has all companies committed.
So, I would say that a working fire is like pornography...it's sometimes hard to define, but after a little experience , you'll know it when you see it.

Many interesting and valid points here. I'd agree we'll never know the root cause of this or similar tragedies, but like so many other problems we must seek to identify commonalities and determine if there are factors that can lead to identification or prevention. Here's few things that have come to stick with me over the last two days:
1. How much does the media contribute to these heinous acts. I'm not blaming them, but it seems that in many (Most?) cases the perpetrators are most often described as withdrawn, quiet, "nobody's", or otherwise lacking a significant number of peer friends? Very often these people are also described as bright; genius; brilliant; etc. So we have smart kids going unknown or unrecognized. Add in some level of depression, and yes the "goth" style seems to typify the dark, quiet depressed nature of many kids. Do these kids starve the spotlight? Does the media making these tragic events so front and center provide the venue for them to be noticed?
2. While I'm an advocate for the 2nd Amendment and responsible firearms owner, I can't think of a scenario where my having to register my firearms would adversely affect me. I say this because I think that forcing some gun owners to be more responsible about how their firearms are kept would reduce unwanted use and stolen guns. Eliminating gun show loopholes to ensure all transfers were recorded and checked through NCIC (or whatever DB they use) again can't really be a huge inconvenience to legal gun owners are compared to the all out bans that are becoming more palatable every day as these tragedies mount. I fear not the U.S. government taking my legally owned firearms, I'm confident that if used against another human it'll be completely justified, but far more likely they'll never have a human in their sights. Those who fear the government will use LEO's to grab their guns fail to realize that cops, military personnel and federal agents are American citizens too, come from all walks of life in various sizes, shapes and colors and even political affiliations.
3. I too played violent video games, loved war movies and played army as a kid, none of which has made me a violent human being. That being said, there may be some merit to the point that the amount of violence seen by kids today contributes to their desensitization? We must remember that not all have the same capacity to handle what they're exposed to, hence Road Rage and seemingly these mass killings of innocent victims. Sadly, we can somewhat understand mass murder for a cause, but these total acts of senseless violence seem to prove a growing disregard for human life. Should kids be playing games that reward them for injuring and killing innocent people?
4. Lastly, maybe it's time to start meeting in the middle on some things. Our country gets weaker by the day as we deepen the great divide. Today it may be gun control, next week we'll be back to fiscal responsibility, national healthcare, religion, same sex marriage, you name it, we are so far from agreement on so many things we are a nation divided. Instead of seeing any middle ground every issue have become a larger fight. We rarely see any merit or listen long enough to hear the other point of view. It seems we all can agree that senseless tragedies need to stop, maybe we could stop the name calling long enough to see that even a few little steps toward the middle might help stem just one tragedy from ever happening. Problem is we can't see something that never happens thus we can't prove it'll work.
Wow, this soapbox is pretty high, guess I'll climb down.

I have heard a rumor that this homeless individual later "sold these shoes". I hope it's not true. But either way, that still doesn't take away what this police officer did.
And I can tell you this, as others have stated, this is NOT the first act of kindness that many of our public servents often do. I've seen many myself. Most people have no idea of what goes on in some of the streets of America on a daily basis.
And as I write this, latest word is that there are still 12,000 homeless just in NYC alone. They still have no homes to go to after over a month from Storm Sandy. I know its a bit off subject, but lets not forget them. They still need our help.

I certainly agree "JetPhoto". Many times throughout this country acts similiar to this go on. Police Officers, firefighters, EMTs and even J.Q. Citizen do similiar acts, except they don't get caught on camera. I know one time where a group of firefighters gave a funeral to a homeless man who was found dead in a vacant lot.
This police officer wasn't a politician looking for a good photo opportunity. He wasn't even looking for a "pat on the back". He just happened to have a camera focused on him that he didn't even know was there.
This homeless individual could have maybe been a War Hero at one time. Maybe he lost his job. Maybe at one time he also helped others. Its just nice to know that we still do have some good people left like this NYPD Officer. And for those that thought it was funny seeing a guy with no shoes and socks to wear on a cold night, my wish is, "what comes around, goes around". And that someday, these wish azz individuals can get their bare feet laughed at.

I certainly agree "JetPhoto". Many times throughout this country acts similiar to this go on. Police Officers, firefighters, EMTs and even J.Q. Citizen do similiar acts, except they don't get caught on camera. I know one time where a group of firefighters gave a funeral to a homeless man who was found dead in a vacant lot.
This police officer wasn't a politician looking for a good photo opportunity. He wasn't even looking for a "pat on the back". He just happened to have a camera focused on him that he didn't even know was there.
This homeless individual could have maybe been a War Hero at one time. Maybe he lost his job. Maybe at one time he also helped others. Its just nice to know that we still do have some good people left like this NYPD Officer. And for those that thought it was funny seeing a guy with no shoes and socks to wear on a cold night, my wish is, "what comes around, goes around". And that someday, these wish azz individuals can get their bare feet laughed at.

I certainly agree "JetPhoto". Many times throughout this country acts similiar to this go on. Police Officers, firefighters, EMTs and even J.Q. Citizen do similiar acts, except they don't get caught on camera. I know one time where a group of firefighters gave a funeral to a homeless man who was found dead in a vacant lot.
This police officer wasn't a politician looking for a good photo opportunity. He wasn't even looking for a "pat on the back". He just happened to have a camera focused on him that he didn't even know was there.
This homeless individual could have maybe been a War Hero at one time. Maybe he lost his job. Maybe at one time he also helped others. Its just nice to know that we still do have some good people left like this NYPD Officer. And for those that thought it was funny seeing a guy with no shoes and socks to wear on a cold night, my wish is, "what comes around, goes around". And that someday, these wish azz individuals can get their bare feet laughed at.

Today I have my UnApproved NFPA/OSHA Leather helmet that I was wearing when I decided to fly like a bird off a ladder from the second story window. I landed in about a 3 foot wide alley and my head apparently struck a three foot high concrete wall. Came down with airpack and helmet on. Apparently, my head hit that wall when I came down. Thank God for that helmet I was wearing. But at the time it was NOT approved and had no inner shell molding. I ended up with a few injuries from the fall, but NO Head Injuries. That helmet had been about 15 years old at the time. Even though it was an UNapproved helmet according to the NFPA and OSHA, "it did its job well".
I still have that busted up "Battled helmet" to remind me of what a good job a 1970s leather helmet did for me.