61MACKBR1

That's where I was headed with my comments. Everybody has a Tshirt from FDNY, a comment to add on their new trucks and their videos bookmarked. But no one will emulate their safe practices in terms of fire ground staffing. 
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

I notice fewer & fewer people using the "Like This" button, now of course everyone is not going to "Like" everything but consider the contribution the person made to the topic.
As an example if a person creates an "Incident Alert" and they really take the time to put some details in the story please consider giving them some credit. I have seen some people who no longer post them because it appears no one cares.
If people post some photos of an incident and you like them let them know by hitting that "Like" button.
Good conversation started or comments you agree with in a topic give them some credit hit the button.
Just my opinion
Jim

Interesting question (although I know the answer is that the Yonkers Fire Department is NOT on the Mutual Aid listing for the Town of Eastchester FD (Eastchester, Bronxville, and Tuckahoe), but if you look at where today's 4 Alarm Fire was (12 Elm Rock Road, Bronxville, NY), does it make any sense, when lives and property are in danger, that you call in Mutual Aid for this location from first New Rochelle Station 2 (Engine 22 and Ladder 12), which is approximately a 13 Minute response time to the scene, then to call in Mount Vernon Engine 205, which is approximately 13 minutes to the fire scene, then to call in Scarsdale Engine 56 which is approximately 14 minutes to the fire scene, and Greenville Ladder 4, which is approximately 17 minutes to the fire scene, AHEAD of Yonkers FD Squad 11, which is approximately 6 minutes from the fire scene (less than half the response time of the first due Mutual Aid Company), and Yonkers FD Engine 312 and Tower Ladder 75 (and Battalion 2) which is approximately 10 minutes from the fire scene?
 
In my opinion, when lives and property are at hand, fast response times are critical. In this case (again, in my opinion) the Mutual Aid System is severely broken, and thus the topic of Regionalizing Fire Companies throughout Westchester County needs to be brought up again.
 
Here is the run assignment as I believe it to have been"
 
12 Elm Rock Rd

Fire in a 2 1/2 story PD

09:25: Reported fire out the windows on the 2nd floor

09:28: C-2103 - 10-75

09:31: C-2102 - 2nd alarm, fire through the roof

09:38: C-2102 - Switching to exterior operations

10:18: C-2102 - FAST team going to work, requesting additional FAST

10:23: C-2102 - Crews have vented the roof, heavy fire pushing from the attic

10:36: C-2101 - Still doubtful, heavy fire

Assignment:
E-27,29,30,31 FAST
L-16, TL-17
C-2102,2103

2nd Alarm:
New Rochelle E-22, L-12

3rd Alarm:
Mt. Vernon E-205, L-62 FAST

4th Alarm:
Scarsdale E-56
Greenville L-4

Relocates:
Pelham E-5 to Eastchester HQ
Pelham Manor TL-3 to Eastchester HQ

Interesting question (although I know the answer is that the Yonkers Fire Department is NOT on the Mutual Aid listing for the Town of Eastchester FD (Eastchester, Bronxville, and Tuckahoe), but if you look at where today's 4 Alarm Fire was (12 Elm Rock Road, Bronxville, NY), does it make any sense, when lives and property are in danger, that you call in Mutual Aid for this location from first New Rochelle Station 2 (Engine 22 and Ladder 12), which is approximately a 13 Minute response time to the scene, then to call in Mount Vernon Engine 205, which is approximately 13 minutes to the fire scene, then to call in Scarsdale Engine 56 which is approximately 14 minutes to the fire scene, and Greenville Ladder 4, which is approximately 17 minutes to the fire scene, AHEAD of Yonkers FD Squad 11, which is approximately 6 minutes from the fire scene (less than half the response time of the first due Mutual Aid Company), and Yonkers FD Engine 312 and Tower Ladder 75 (and Battalion 2) which is approximately 10 minutes from the fire scene?
 
In my opinion, when lives and property are at hand, fast response times are critical. In this case (again, in my opinion) the Mutual Aid System is severely broken, and thus the topic of Regionalizing Fire Companies throughout Westchester County needs to be brought up again.
 
Here is the run assignment as I believe it to have been"
 
12 Elm Rock Rd

Fire in a 2 1/2 story PD

09:25: Reported fire out the windows on the 2nd floor

09:28: C-2103 - 10-75

09:31: C-2102 - 2nd alarm, fire through the roof

09:38: C-2102 - Switching to exterior operations

10:18: C-2102 - FAST team going to work, requesting additional FAST

10:23: C-2102 - Crews have vented the roof, heavy fire pushing from the attic

10:36: C-2101 - Still doubtful, heavy fire

Assignment:
E-27,29,30,31 FAST
L-16, TL-17
C-2102,2103

2nd Alarm:
New Rochelle E-22, L-12

3rd Alarm:
Mt. Vernon E-205, L-62 FAST

4th Alarm:
Scarsdale E-56
Greenville L-4

Relocates:
Pelham E-5 to Eastchester HQ
Pelham Manor TL-3 to Eastchester HQ

It's westchester....nuf said......

That makes zero sense. But it's motivated by politics, not common sense. 
 
Riddle me this. Why is it that departments think that one engine and one truck is enough manpower for an extra alarm? 
 
You're calling for more help. Why not call for ENOUGH help? 

Interesting question (although I know the answer is that the Yonkers Fire Department is NOT on the Mutual Aid listing for the Town of Eastchester FD (Eastchester, Bronxville, and Tuckahoe), but if you look at where today's 4 Alarm Fire was (12 Elm Rock Road, Bronxville, NY), does it make any sense, when lives and property are in danger, that you call in Mutual Aid for this location from first New Rochelle Station 2 (Engine 22 and Ladder 12), which is approximately a 13 Minute response time to the scene, then to call in Mount Vernon Engine 205, which is approximately 13 minutes to the fire scene, then to call in Scarsdale Engine 56 which is approximately 14 minutes to the fire scene, and Greenville Ladder 4, which is approximately 17 minutes to the fire scene, AHEAD of Yonkers FD Squad 11, which is approximately 6 minutes from the fire scene (less than half the response time of the first due Mutual Aid Company), and Yonkers FD Engine 312 and Tower Ladder 75 (and Battalion 2) which is approximately 10 minutes from the fire scene?
 
In my opinion, when lives and property are at hand, fast response times are critical. In this case (again, in my opinion) the Mutual Aid System is severely broken, and thus the topic of Regionalizing Fire Companies throughout Westchester County needs to be brought up again.
 
Here is the run assignment as I believe it to have been"
 
12 Elm Rock Rd

Fire in a 2 1/2 story PD

09:25: Reported fire out the windows on the 2nd floor

09:28: C-2103 - 10-75

09:31: C-2102 - 2nd alarm, fire through the roof

09:38: C-2102 - Switching to exterior operations

10:18: C-2102 - FAST team going to work, requesting additional FAST

10:23: C-2102 - Crews have vented the roof, heavy fire pushing from the attic

10:36: C-2101 - Still doubtful, heavy fire

Assignment:
E-27,29,30,31 FAST
L-16, TL-17
C-2102,2103

2nd Alarm:
New Rochelle E-22, L-12

3rd Alarm:
Mt. Vernon E-205, L-62 FAST

4th Alarm:
Scarsdale E-56
Greenville L-4

Relocates:
Pelham E-5 to Eastchester HQ
Pelham Manor TL-3 to Eastchester HQ

 
Back in 2000, when YFD Rescue 1 was recommissioned, I suspect that the amount of equipment that YFD originally thought that they would need to carry on the 2000 ALF Heavy Duty Single Axel Rescue Rig (now Rescue 2) probably ended up being a lot different than what they actually needed to carry, 5 to 6 years later. (Such as Water Rescue Equipment, HAZMAT and USAR equipment, extrication equipment, cold water suits, medical gear, traffic signage, back boards, portable lights, ropes, and much more ). So when YFD ordered the current 2007 ALF Tandem Axel Heavy Duty Rescue, they went with a Tandem-Axel rig. With a larger load, there is a greater need for more weight distribution thus, more axles.
 
Also, in my opinion, Tandem Axel HD Fire Rescue Rigs are safer than a marginal or max'd out single axle rear end. They (Tandem Axel) provides the added benefit of double the braking and greatly improved stability. Wheels can be adjusted for your configuration to accomodate turning radius's that are equal to that of a single axle, but again, the configuration of the vehicle needs to be narrowed down. Once that is done, any apparatus manufacturer can do a detailed weight analysis of whatever particular design any Fire Department requires, once they know what that department is looking for. 
 
As a side note, all of the FDNY Rescue apparatus are all Tandem-Axel rigs (albeit 'Walk Thru's), thus maybe another reason why YFD, in 2007, went with the Tandem Axel rig (PS - YFD's 1961 Mack B Rescue Rig was a Single Axel/Walk Thru Rescue Truck)
 
Just my two cents

 
Back in 2000, when YFD Rescue 1 was recommissioned, I suspect that the amount of equipment that YFD originally thought that they would need to carry on the 2000 ALF Heavy Duty Single Axel Rescue Rig (now Rescue 2) probably ended up being a lot different than what they actually needed to carry, 5 to 6 years later. (Such as Water Rescue Equipment, HAZMAT and USAR equipment, extrication equipment, cold water suits, medical gear, traffic signage, back boards, portable lights, ropes, and much more ). So when YFD ordered the current 2007 ALF Tandem Axel Heavy Duty Rescue, they went with a Tandem-Axel rig. With a larger load, there is a greater need for more weight distribution thus, more axles.
 
Also, in my opinion, Tandem Axel HD Fire Rescue Rigs are safer than a marginal or max'd out single axle rear end. They (Tandem Axel) provides the added benefit of double the braking and greatly improved stability. Wheels can be adjusted for your configuration to accomodate turning radius's that are equal to that of a single axle, but again, the configuration of the vehicle needs to be narrowed down. Once that is done, any apparatus manufacturer can do a detailed weight analysis of whatever particular design any Fire Department requires, once they know what that department is looking for. 
 
As a side note, all of the FDNY Rescue apparatus are all Tandem-Axel rigs (albeit 'Walk Thru's), thus maybe another reason why YFD, in 2007, went with the Tandem Axel rig (PS - YFD's 1961 Mack B Rescue Rig was a Single Axel/Walk Thru Rescue Truck)
 
Just my two cents

 
Back in 2000, when YFD Rescue 1 was recommissioned, I suspect that the amount of equipment that YFD originally thought that they would need to carry on the 2000 ALF Heavy Duty Single Axel Rescue Rig (now Rescue 2) probably ended up being a lot different than what they actually needed to carry, 5 to 6 years later. (Such as Water Rescue Equipment, HAZMAT and USAR equipment, extrication equipment, cold water suits, medical gear, traffic signage, back boards, portable lights, ropes, and much more ). So when YFD ordered the current 2007 ALF Tandem Axel Heavy Duty Rescue, they went with a Tandem-Axel rig. With a larger load, there is a greater need for more weight distribution thus, more axles.
 
Also, in my opinion, Tandem Axel HD Fire Rescue Rigs are safer than a marginal or max'd out single axle rear end. They (Tandem Axel) provides the added benefit of double the braking and greatly improved stability. Wheels can be adjusted for your configuration to accomodate turning radius's that are equal to that of a single axle, but again, the configuration of the vehicle needs to be narrowed down. Once that is done, any apparatus manufacturer can do a detailed weight analysis of whatever particular design any Fire Department requires, once they know what that department is looking for. 
 
As a side note, all of the FDNY Rescue apparatus are all Tandem-Axel rigs (albeit 'Walk Thru's), thus maybe another reason why YFD, in 2007, went with the Tandem Axel rig (PS - YFD's 1961 Mack B Rescue Rig was a Single Axel/Walk Thru Rescue Truck)
 
Just my two cents

 
Back in 2000, when YFD Rescue 1 was recommissioned, I suspect that the amount of equipment that YFD originally thought that they would need to carry on the 2000 ALF Heavy Duty Single Axel Rescue Rig (now Rescue 2) probably ended up being a lot different than what they actually needed to carry, 5 to 6 years later. (Such as Water Rescue Equipment, HAZMAT and USAR equipment, extrication equipment, cold water suits, medical gear, traffic signage, back boards, portable lights, ropes, and much more ). So when YFD ordered the current 2007 ALF Tandem Axel Heavy Duty Rescue, they went with a Tandem-Axel rig. With a larger load, there is a greater need for more weight distribution thus, more axles.
 
Also, in my opinion, Tandem Axel HD Fire Rescue Rigs are safer than a marginal or max'd out single axle rear end. They (Tandem Axel) provides the added benefit of double the braking and greatly improved stability. Wheels can be adjusted for your configuration to accomodate turning radius's that are equal to that of a single axle, but again, the configuration of the vehicle needs to be narrowed down. Once that is done, any apparatus manufacturer can do a detailed weight analysis of whatever particular design any Fire Department requires, once they know what that department is looking for. 
 
As a side note, all of the FDNY Rescue apparatus are all Tandem-Axel rigs (albeit 'Walk Thru's), thus maybe another reason why YFD, in 2007, went with the Tandem Axel rig (PS - YFD's 1961 Mack B Rescue Rig was a Single Axel/Walk Thru Rescue Truck)
 
Just my two cents

 
Back in 2000, when YFD Rescue 1 was recommissioned, I suspect that the amount of equipment that YFD originally thought that they would need to carry on the 2000 ALF Heavy Duty Single Axel Rescue Rig (now Rescue 2) probably ended up being a lot different than what they actually needed to carry, 5 to 6 years later. (Such as Water Rescue Equipment, HAZMAT and USAR equipment, extrication equipment, cold water suits, medical gear, traffic signage, back boards, portable lights, ropes, and much more ). So when YFD ordered the current 2007 ALF Tandem Axel Heavy Duty Rescue, they went with a Tandem-Axel rig. With a larger load, there is a greater need for more weight distribution thus, more axles.
 
Also, in my opinion, Tandem Axel HD Fire Rescue Rigs are safer than a marginal or max'd out single axle rear end. They (Tandem Axel) provides the added benefit of double the braking and greatly improved stability. Wheels can be adjusted for your configuration to accomodate turning radius's that are equal to that of a single axle, but again, the configuration of the vehicle needs to be narrowed down. Once that is done, any apparatus manufacturer can do a detailed weight analysis of whatever particular design any Fire Department requires, once they know what that department is looking for. 
 
As a side note, all of the FDNY Rescue apparatus are all Tandem-Axel rigs (albeit 'Walk Thru's), thus maybe another reason why YFD, in 2007, went with the Tandem Axel rig (PS - YFD's 1961 Mack B Rescue Rig was a Single Axel/Walk Thru Rescue Truck)
 
Just my two cents

I have a couple of questions, just out of curiosity:
 
1.  I saw a picture of an older R1, which was single axle.  What was the reasoning for expanding to a tandem axle chassis?
 
2.  How much equipment is the new rescue going to carry?  I ask this because YFD has a bunch of support/task oriented units such as the collapse rescue and USAR trailer that I know carry extra equipment that can respond when necessary.

Actually, after only 30 days at Station 8, YFD decided to move Rescue 1 to Station 7 on CPA (probably, because it was a more 'Centralized' location for dispatch across the entire city, from Yonkers Fire Stations with 2 bays, and 1 of which is not currently primarily used.

Like Lad45der said above, i suspect, despite how much history is within this building, that the cost to renovate and repair the building 100% (and not just a "Patch Job", which makes no sense at all) will be far greater than to tear it down and build a new Fire Headquarters (Station 1). I am sure that given the emotions of the late Patrick Joyce having worked out of this building, as part of Rescue 1 and the memory of FF Joyce being memorialized within this building, will play heavily in the hearts of those attending the rally this evening. But, I feel that it will eventually come down to what will make more financial sense to the city. (Some might say that there was historical sentiments and reasoning why the city should not have condemned and closed Station 2 on Vineyard Avenue back in the 1980's or when they condemned and closed the Old Station 8 on Warburton Avenue back in the 1970's, or when they condemned and closed Station 3 on Riverdale Avenue back in the late 1960's, but I presume that it made sense financially to build new firehouses for Station 3 and Station 8 rather than renovate the existing structures).
Sadly, all of these years of neglect by the City's Building Department, has resulted in what everyone is facing today. If the City had allocated funding, as far back as the late 1970's to help preserve this grand old building, then we would not be in the position that the city is in today.

Keep liking and show appreciation for the people that keep the content on this site going as stated in the first post of this thread! Thanks people!
 
SHOW YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS SOME LIKE!
HIT THE "LIKE" BUTTON AND SHOW APPRECIATION FOR KEEPING THE CONTENT ON EMTBRAVO GOING! #annoyingallcaps
 
 

 
Mount Vernon FD Snorkel 1. Workhorse of a rig. Worked many major fires during its run in the Vern. This was an era of the FDMV, when Chief Campbell was running the show and they had excellent front line equipment and was running with 6 Engine Companies (plus 2 spares), 1 Snorkel, 3 Truck Companies (plus 1 spare), 1 Rescue, 1 Foam Unit, and 1 Ambulance. Sad how this department has a gone down hill as it relates to manpower and equipment (no wonder they use Mutual Aid like people drink water)

 
Mount Vernon FD Snorkel 1. Workhorse of a rig. Worked many major fires during its run in the Vern. This was an era of the FDMV, when Chief Campbell was running the show and they had excellent front line equipment and was running with 6 Engine Companies (plus 2 spares), 1 Snorkel, 3 Truck Companies (plus 1 spare), 1 Rescue, 1 Foam Unit, and 1 Ambulance. Sad how this department has a gone down hill as it relates to manpower and equipment (no wonder they use Mutual Aid like people drink water)

5/15/85 Mt Vernon Snorkel 1 at 4th Alarm on 4th Ave & 2nd St and Millwood Squrt in 1996 White Plains parade.

 
I know that this is a played out/sore subject with many on EMTBravo.net, but I will again say, if the "Powers to Be" (Politicians) would all get together, abolish the "Home Rule" permanently, and develop and implement a 100% County Run EMS and Fire Operation, with every county tax payer being held responsible for the costs of running such operation, you would stop such comments, as "The City of Mount Vernon doesn't even have enough firefighters to do their primary job of fighting fires". If you take the LOCAL BULL-DINKY POLITICS (both Governmental and Unions) out of the equation and put it in the hands of a Group of EMS and Fire Professionals throughout the county (such as say 5 to 7 "Leaders" coming out of say Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mount Vernon, Eastchester, and possibly 1 or 2 Northern Westchester County Towns/Villages) to oversee the day to day operation of such a "Consolidated County Run EMS/Fire Service" you would never have to worry about Private Companies going bankrupt. 
 
When will people wake up and say "This is Enough" ?????

 
I know that this is a played out/sore subject with many on EMTBravo.net, but I will again say, if the "Powers to Be" (Politicians) would all get together, abolish the "Home Rule" permanently, and develop and implement a 100% County Run EMS and Fire Operation, with every county tax payer being held responsible for the costs of running such operation, you would stop such comments, as "The City of Mount Vernon doesn't even have enough firefighters to do their primary job of fighting fires". If you take the LOCAL BULL-DINKY POLITICS (both Governmental and Unions) out of the equation and put it in the hands of a Group of EMS and Fire Professionals throughout the county (such as say 5 to 7 "Leaders" coming out of say Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mount Vernon, Eastchester, and possibly 1 or 2 Northern Westchester County Towns/Villages) to oversee the day to day operation of such a "Consolidated County Run EMS/Fire Service" you would never have to worry about Private Companies going bankrupt. 
 
When will people wake up and say "This is Enough" ?????

 
I know that this is a played out/sore subject with many on EMTBravo.net, but I will again say, if the "Powers to Be" (Politicians) would all get together, abolish the "Home Rule" permanently, and develop and implement a 100% County Run EMS and Fire Operation, with every county tax payer being held responsible for the costs of running such operation, you would stop such comments, as "The City of Mount Vernon doesn't even have enough firefighters to do their primary job of fighting fires". If you take the LOCAL BULL-DINKY POLITICS (both Governmental and Unions) out of the equation and put it in the hands of a Group of EMS and Fire Professionals throughout the county (such as say 5 to 7 "Leaders" coming out of say Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mount Vernon, Eastchester, and possibly 1 or 2 Northern Westchester County Towns/Villages) to oversee the day to day operation of such a "Consolidated County Run EMS/Fire Service" you would never have to worry about Private Companies going bankrupt. 
 
When will people wake up and say "This is Enough" ?????

 
 
A little blast from the past here, 14 years ago. Former Forum Admin Truck 4 produced this awesome feature and there are no words I can say of how appreciative of him for this. 2004 was a busy and tragic year in Westchester.  Links in the Incident Alert dicussion thread do not work but I will update those soon. Click on the links to view the Incident Alert. I'm proud that we have a searchable database of 14 years worth of topics that you can research.
 
If you want to see more EMTBravo.com Blasts From The Past from our archives, please hit "Like" on this post.
 
Incidents were selected by a panel of EMTBravo.com moderators and select members by vote and also ranked based on, with no factor holding any more weight than another, size and scope of incident, response to incident, loss of life, effect on response, training and operating policy. EMTBravo Network Incident Alert Moderator Truck4 Created And Developed The Idea For This List, As Well As Compiled, Ranked, And Wrote All The Information. Special Thanks To Truck4 For His Work On This Project, And To All Who Participated And Supported This Project.
 
 

 
I know that this is a played out/sore subject with many on EMTBravo.net, but I will again say, if the "Powers to Be" (Politicians) would all get together, abolish the "Home Rule" permanently, and develop and implement a 100% County Run EMS and Fire Operation, with every county tax payer being held responsible for the costs of running such operation, you would stop such comments, as "The City of Mount Vernon doesn't even have enough firefighters to do their primary job of fighting fires". If you take the LOCAL BULL-DINKY POLITICS (both Governmental and Unions) out of the equation and put it in the hands of a Group of EMS and Fire Professionals throughout the county (such as say 5 to 7 "Leaders" coming out of say Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mount Vernon, Eastchester, and possibly 1 or 2 Northern Westchester County Towns/Villages) to oversee the day to day operation of such a "Consolidated County Run EMS/Fire Service" you would never have to worry about Private Companies going bankrupt. 
 
When will people wake up and say "This is Enough" ?????