PEMO3

Happy Birthday Seth

In my thoughts and prayers Rob.

Just another case being tried by/in the media.

I personally feel that we are trying the case based on hear say and assumptions. We have read and heard that they had 4 drinks among all 6, they had multiple drinks, they were all drunk, they were all sober, there were enough light, there were not enough lights, it met the USCG standards, the standards are too low, he should have known the barge was there, and so on. These are all fine but only those 6 people on the boat that night know the truth. We as trained professionals should know better than to draw conclusions based on assumptions and innuendos. To assume that he saw the barge when he moored his boat is to assume we know the last time he was on the river. To assume any of the BACs is to assume we know the results when they have yet to be returned. The only item that does stand out loudly to me is that the groom and the father of the deceased bride are rising to the defense of the operator which makes me wonder if this story has begun to take on a life of it own and we are being to quick to condemn and judge. Remember we are a country built on innocent until proven guilty even though in the media to opposite seems to appear to be the case. By the way I am in no way defending or condemning the operator, I am simply advocating sitting back and awaiting the fact, not the hear say and rumors.

On a separate note, KUDOS to the units involved in this job. While and S&R operation is difficult having it coupled with the emotional aspect of locating a bride to be and giving a family closure just weeks before her wedding in itself takes it toll. Once again, great job by all involved.

I think we need to refrain from commenting until all facts are in. This is the latest statement from the restaurant owner as posted on Lo-Hud: "The six people involved in the accident enjoyed an expensive dinner — but just four drinks between them — before heading out on the Hudson River, the restaurant’s owner told The Journal News."

I also wonder about liabilities. You warn me not to arm my alarm or you will fine me. I come out and my car is stolen. Are you liable since you circumvented my ability to protect my property and created an environment that was benificial to the thief.

Curious question. Isn't Empire City/Yonkers Raceway run by the NYS Gaming Commission? If so that would make it public not private property if I am correct.

On a recent trip to Empire City I noticed the above signs are placed on every light pole in the parking lot. These seem to be in direct contrast to YPD's advocacy of the use of auto alarms to deter auto theft and break ins. While I realize that these alarms are not the cure all, the only way one would know the alarm was "activated" is either by the vehicle being "violated" and the alarm sounding or someone cruising the lot looking for those little lights that blink on some systems when they are on. Either way the signs are trouble in the making. Anyone from YPD aware of these signs.

Congratulations guys.

Congrats to Yonkers on a progress and forward thinking unit. Looks well thought out. Who is the primary for this vehicle, PD, FD, OEM, Westchester DES or UASI? I see all five logos on the side.

Nice!!

Have a question and maybe someone could provide some insight. While I can see the clear advantage in a front mounted, pre-connected Hurst tool set aren't they susceptible to road dirt and salt especially in the Northern East? Does this type of road grime hinder their smooth operation as opposed to being placed in a side roll up door compartment and possibly a "pass thru" compartment with access to the pre-connected tools from both sides of the rig on a pull out tray? Love the idea of the front mount especially with the hydro-tilt but just a concern that hit me in looking at the rig pictured.

Arbrow06, you asked in your post if anyone saw anything wrong with what you said. If you are not prepared for the answers then don't ask the question. What you need to understand is Yes, I understand are getting advice and insight from some of the most highly trained and experienced individuals but your arrogance if blocking you from seeing this. Instead of learning from the experience you are taking the answers as personal attacks. They are not.

It is ironic because PEMO3 first stated that 30 minute times are normal with no buses. I suggest a way to get more buses and then no not those types of buses with EMTs that arent at the FDNY caliber. Sounds like a ego thing to me.

There is no Ego just 30+ years of experience and training speaking. Based on your profile you are still wet behind the ears as far as EMS goes. At 19 just how much studying of this field to solve the problems of FDNY EMS have you done. You even acknowledged that you aare not that familiar with the system.

To answer your question. They don't transport the clinic appointment. The people know how to work the system. They call for a "emergency" e.g. stomach pain, nausea x 2 days, asthma, etc. They know what gets a waiting room seat and what gets inside. They get put in the waiting room, leave and go upstairs to their clinic appointment. They also know if they have public insurance (medicaid) they get a bus token or cab fare home from the social worker. Just because insurance states it pays for an ambulance does not make that ambulance ride medically necessary. I can't tell you how many times I got stuck with these "taxi rides" only to hear a true emergency like a cardiac arrest or a pedestrian struck drop and the closest unit was coming from a distance and it was our area. Just because books or studies say it is the solution does not mean it is. The people in the trenches will give you the solution before some study by a focus group. I hope that helps to give you a clearer picture of the problem-not a lack of resources but an abuse of the system.

..... I fully support a quality component and I promise you I know it will work out. Because once it's done people will just deal with it and the public won't know the difference they will just be glad that someone came to their rescue.

First calling FDNY a zoo is derogatory and unprofessional. Second, listening to a scanner does not make you an authority on the subject. Yes the cut finger could be from a rusty nail but lack of cab fare does not make it a 911 EMS call. If you believe it does then you should seek out a refresher course fast. It is this thinking that is overtaxing a system. You would be surprise how many of the I don't have cab fare public take an ambulance to the ER for a clinic appointment and leave the ER as soon as they are handed over and put in the waiting room and go upstairs for their appointment.

It is obvious that we disagree and that is fine. You may want to check if Quinn needs a running mate.

I am just applying the fact that many of the people on this forum and EMTs who started from the poop end of the stick to become the amazing knowledgeable EMS providers they are today. All EMTs right out of school should be able to handle any call. I am not saying execute it perfectly but they should be able to stabilize and transport and work with their partner to make sure there is not underlying issues.

If this is a issue of a system that can't handle the call volume why is the debate of overtime coming up. I guess lining people pockets are more important than freeing up a system to make sure people having a heart attack aren't waiting 40 minutes for a ambulance or a ambulance crew is sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response.

I am not saying to lower the quality. I am saying take the ready and eager volunteer EMTs. Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road. I don't see how your concerns make this a bad idea because the majority of EMTs know their stuff we aren't looking for ER docs on the road just people who will volunteer their time to alleviate the system.

The system is broken and this will save money and fix. All they have to do is make all those buses that they replaced road worthy again. Then sit back and (as along as the 911 center doesn't screw up) watch those response times drop like no bodies business.

Am I saying anything wrong PEMO3

There is a lot wrong with what you said. First lets make it clear that I don't want this to go down the paid vs volly road.

You are correct. EMTs fresh out of school spent 17 weeks training, but they did not spend 9 weeks, 40 hours per week training. Big difference. Second, FDNY EMS EMTs go through an extensive process before they ever step out on the street including a complete refresher regardless of when you got your card to ensure quality control. You are correct we are not looking for ER docs. Nothing against ER docs but most can not perform in the streets and conditions FDNY EMS works in.

You stated in your first post "The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid." Now you state "Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road." Which is it shorter, corners cut training or the full academy you can't have it both ways.

You have a brass pair calling it about "lining pockets" and stating "ambulance crews are sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response". If you want to get experience there are plenty of volunteer corps in NYC that will let you "get your feet wet". But to put it on the backs of the public by stating to solution is to bring in volunteers with less training standards is short sighted. Think about it, if you have the choice between a fully trained FDNY EMS crew or a wet behind the ears crew that is volunteering for experience, who would you want, honestly. If you choose the later then you are not honest.

The solution is public education about what is a 911 EMS call and letting the ER docs go back to signing the back of the call reports when it is not medically necessary so that Medicare & insurance pass the bill to the patients. Once they realize that the taxi with lights and sirens is about $400 more than the livery they will think twice about calling. It helped in the 90's.

What if the FDNY had an auxiliary component of EMTs who want to get their experience up to be able to get into a commercial service and have them go on the low priority calls while the medics, rescue medic and haz techs go on the hi priority calls. The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

To answer you question- Alot is wrong with this idea. FDNY EMS has a standard.of care. You can not water it down with EMT's that want experience but not the training. Second a low priority call can escalate to a "high priority " call easily leaving these inexperienced EMTs with their hands full and the patient short changed. Additionally how would you feel if your boss told you they were replacing your O/T slot with an unpaid, less experienced EMT but he will wear the same uniform as you. Lastly is accountability let alone FDNY EMS is a closed civil service union shop. You don't fix a problem with a leaky bandaid. But let's not overlook the fact that the only problem here was a politician in an election year.

30 minutes is too long to wait. Everyone knew for days the heat wave was coming and was going to be extended. Should there be extra buses on for extreme weather, probably.

But because she is running for office, she has a platform. Most lay people, probably would have waited 10 minutes then used a personal vehicle to transport.

The real question is, how long do low priority jobs wait on an average day and how long were low priority jobs waiting on that day.

They are probably not the only ones waiting 30 minutes for EMS that day and they are probably just as outraged as Quinn is.

Facts are simple. Most of the low priority calls are simply "taxi" runs. Some are actually for late clinic appointments, ER follow ups , etc. These people would complain if the unit arrived in 10 minutes. There are the exceptions that actually do require an ambulance either due to secondary conditions or incorrect information relayed during EMD. In a perfect world extra units could be added during extreme weather but unfortunately this politician is part of the same group that imposed budget restraints on agencies and the media is the same one that will list all of the "high overtime earners" names and address because they increased their base income to add these extra units. The politicians want it both ways. The simple solution is that these politicians should have held their press conference in a less environmentally hostile environment, ensure that their staff was safe and not created the problem in the first place.

Not that I know a ton about the FDNY/NYC ems system other than that its busy, but was there no CFR engine avaliable or assigned? And just my two cents, if someone who you know is going to make a big issue out of a long response time, like a mayoral candidate, calls 911 for ems, send the closest available unit, whether it be an ambulance or a CFR engine or even a truck company. They may not be equipped, but at least they're trained and can provide some level of care till an ambulance can get there and you avoid this whole situation.

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Just a few clearifying facts. A post fainting heat related syncope us not a high priority. Also, regardless of Queen Quinn's statement the woman was immediately treated by a NYS EMT who happened to be her NYPD PO driver. The failure here is her failure to take a step back, distance herself from the incident, look at the big picture and find a solution without negatively impacting other NYC resident. The solution a SUV with official plates and ice cold a/c. First rule in heat rrelated injuries is to remove the patient from the hostile environment. The already cooled SUV could have surficed and also doubled as a transport option to an ER.

It's about time they gave them something better that hand me down ambulances. Lord knows they have enough money tied up in trailers and other equipment that never moves. Nice to see money spent on something that will get utilized. The big question is are they going to be pre-staged out in the county like the old trucks or sit at 60 control for someone to have to respond there and pick it up.

30 minutes for a Priority 5 call as it was first triaged with no available buses in the system and calls waiting is not long. The heat wave is taxing the system. Quinn states that there should be more units out there to handle the call volume and that the system was not prepared. This is the same woman that voted to cut the FDNY & EMS budget and reduce the unit count. I guess it was just lip service until those cuts hit home. They also could have picked this young lady up and put her in the air conditioned SUV that she had waiting and I am sure running to ensure it was kept cool instead of "dragging" her under a tent to keep her cool.

"Quinn was speaking before cameras about the reopening of the controversial E. 91st St. marine transfer station when the 17-year-old girl suddenly dropped to the ground in front of the crowd shortly before noon, witnesses said.

The speaker ran over to the teen, who may have collapsed because of the heat, and began rubbing her arms as a member of Quinn's detail — an NYPD cop who is a trained EMT — began rendering aid to the girl.

"It's going to be okay," Quinn told the girl as another bystander called 911.

They quickly pulled the girl into the shade under a tent as Quinn's security guard grabbed an oxygen tank to help the young woman breathe.

But Quinn finally lost her patience after waiting about 30 minutes for an ambulance to arrive and dialed NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly for help.

"We were trying to get through to [FDNY Commissioner] Sal Cassano, and I was unable to get connected," Quinn said."

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2013/07/chris-quinn-slams-outrageous-30-minute-wait-for-ambulance-after-intern-collaps

Interesting, injured woman faints and is conscious and being treat by "trained personnel" (a police officer who is also an EMT). Triaged as it should and held for higher priority calls due to a 25% spike in call volume. But because it is the Speakers intern there is "outrage " because it should have been a "priority 1" call. Maybe they should hold the arrest, MI, stroke or true unconscious for her intern. This is the same Speaker that would have called for a City Council investigation if an MOS family's call was bumped up. I guess it is justified when you call the Police Commissioners private cell and pull strings to get your low priority call bumped up to a high priority "unconscious" even though the woman was conscious. Maybe the speaker and her intern should have followed her own instructions that she has been handing out since the heat wave started - stay hydrated, in the shade when possible and wear light colored, loose fitting clothing.

Thanks for sharing. Great pictures.

Passengers aboard the airliner that crashed in San Francisco Saturday pleaded for more ambulances to show up and help the wounded, recordings of their 911 calls revealed Wednesday.

"We've been down on the ground, I don't know, 20 minutes, a half-hour," one woman said from the runway. "There are people waiting on the tarmac with critical injuries, head injuries."

"We're almost losing a woman here," she said as a 911 dispatcher tried to reassure her that help was on the way. "We're trying to keep her alive."

From USA News: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/10/19403360-were-trying-to-keep-her-alive-911-calls-reveal-drama-of-asiana-crash#comments

The finger pointing has already started claiming ambulances did not respond fast enough. People not in the emergency services think everything is like in the movies. No response is ever perfect unless it is part of a Hollywood script. Pre-plans are just blueprints. Twenty minutes to the scene is only part of the story. How long were the buses held until granted runway access? Did they have to wait for an airport escort vehicle? We are talking about an active major airport, just because a plane crashed does not mean everything on the ground is at a full stop immediately. It would not make for great headlines if responding apparatus struck an aircraft being re-gated. ICS and calm need to prevail. People don't understand that you also can't follow the movie line "send me everything you've got". There are other calls that need attention beside the airport. Stripping the system is not the answer. A response needs to be coordinated and things like triage, patient count, patient tracking, transport to avoid overloading one ER with everyone and preservation of the "crime scene" all have to be attended to.