FDMV and MA

[jloftus 28]

I have been a Mount Vernon FF for 15 years now and MA has alsways been an onging topic, but cant anyone see that recent times have shown that not only Mount Vernon abuses MA but considers it a given by other communties and responds slowly to equipment brake downs because of the fact that other cities will respond.

As of today

3-5 engine companys in service

2-3 ladder companies in service

1-Brand new engine down

1-first line ladder ( down for 8 months )

16-18 FF's on the line

I know this topic has been run over but how long is New Rochelle gonna be part of a Mount Vernon assingment.

MA-

Eastchester

New Rochelle

Greenville

Fairveiw

Pelham

Pelham Manor

Yonkers

FDNY

White Plains

Tell me another city that uses this many communities on a regualr bases.

And last the only Tower Ladder in the state with no escape ladder for the guys safety.

Edited April 24, 2006 by jloftus

[27east 19]

it seems obvious, at least to me, that Mayor Davis is responsible for this.

and how often is FDNY up in MV?

Edited April 24, 2006 by 23piraf

[HFD23 37]

other then the obvious reslolution of more manpower and better equipment what is a solution?

should these fire departments refuse to go m/a to FDMV?

i don't know if thats safe for the brothers working there...

granted i totally agree with your statement and know a bunch of guys on the job there and these are serious concerns but i just want to hear from some one who works there what they think needs to be done and how to go about it rather then have all the members begin making crazy suggestions and bashing the FDMV and its leadership... even though it may be warrented... feel free to reply or shoot me a PM if its something you may not want to voice due to any repercussions

[FF402 133]

Well said, HFD23!

It seems select members come on here thinking this is their personal MVFD bash board, even though this issue has been adressed by the moderators numerous times. What is the point? Everyone knows the situation. Why must we go over it again and again and again if nobody wants to figure out a solution?

My question is, are the people posting taking action to improve the situation???? Or just whining on this board?

LETS HEAR HOW TO IMPROVE THINGS!!

[HFD23 37]

Sounds to me your best course of action is get the citizens you protect behind you and force the mayor to make changes or back a new candidate for mayor and run them against the existing mayor and his staff...

or get the fire commissioner to speak out or the Chief about the issues.

But they are not willing to do so for fear of loosing their jobs but its going to take some one speaking out and attempting to make changes in order for anything to happen and sadly nothing may be done until some one get seriously injured or killed (God For bid) and these issues and NFPA standards are brought up in Court.

But once again i don't work there so i don't wish to offer up much more then that but i would love to hear what any other creditable sources who may know more about the situation have to say.

[jloftus 28]

Hey first I'm on the job in Mount Vernon and it bothers me that we cant handle a kitchen fire without MA. Second the point of this post was to generate talk so maybe if enough people understand whats going on and how this issue is being addressed or lack of, then maybe outside towns and cities will address the department.

Every time I see a rig from out of town it hurts. I and most on the job know that MA units are doing the right thing but the point of it, is the city really providing a service to the people of Mt. Vernon.

Talking to managment is not the answer unless outside sources make enough noise. By the way I have not heard any body on this site bash us. We are still the best around even with the noumbers against us.

Thanks for the thoughts

[dadbo46 50]

The problem stems from the Mayor's Office and, by extension, the City Council.

Several years ago, The Journal News wrote a series of articles about the staffing at FDMV and the abuse of mutual aid. Short of the Mayor being voted out, and that's not likely, insurance company cancellation of fire insurance on many Mt. Vernon properties and litigation filed by residents, nothing is going to happen.

A shame.....a real shame !

[Guest]

Whats important here is the men of the F.D.M.V. Nobody on this thread or any other thread on here have ever bashed them. They always do the best with what they're given. The problem is that when Rigs go out of sevice their saftey and that of the public are jepordized.

F.D.M.V. has no spare fleet to speak of. All rigs break down sometimes, but when one rearmount has been out for eight months somthing is wrong. Somebody is not doing the right thing.

When only 2 out of 5 engines are in service for more then 20hrs. there's a problem. When 1 out of 5 engines is out of service for mechanical problems for more than a month its a problem. Since this past thursday only 3 out of 5 engines have been in service.

This puts the members and the public in danger. The Members are in danger the second they sign in. The Public is in danger this whole time. If you live in the first due area of one of the engines thats O.O.S. your're in danger. It will be a delayed response. Having a Mutual Aid Engine respond is just a band aid. We all know how fast fire can spread.

It seems that the people who are responsible for making sure that their fire dept has enough equipment and manning to protect its citizens are failing.( for what ever reason) They're using mutual aid to cover up their mistakes. All the time the members do their best with what they're given, but when will they be given what they need to protect their citizens properly.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Big Al

[FF402 133]

And I repeat my question. What are you doing, through the proper channels, to make your problems known to the public and get them resolved????? I think everyone in the fire service is aware of this, this issue has been beaten to death on this forum, yet some keep dragging it up, and it's always the same old thing on here. I haven't read about Mount Vernon Firefighters planning a demonstration/protest at city hall, or thier union president writing a letter to the mayor or news. It seems like a few just want the opptunity to rant and rant only.

And is it that the citizens of Mount Vernon, or a majority of them, really don't care too much about their fire protection or community, or aren't registered voters?

[Guest]

And I repeat my question. What are you doing, through the proper channels, to make your problems known to the public and get them resolved????? I think everyone in the fire service is aware of this, this issue has been beaten to death on this forum, yet some keep dragging it up, and it's always the same old thing on here.  I haven't read about Mount Vernon Firefighters planning a demonstration/protest at city hall, or thier union president writing a letter to the mayor or news.  It seems like a few just want the opptunity to rant and rant only.

And is it that the citizens of Mount Vernon, or a majority of them, really don't care too much about their fire protection or community, or aren't registered voters?

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The problems in Mt vernon are many, If this thead bothers you so much don't read it. There are others. If learning about the problems of the F.D.M.V. offends you, just move on.

[FF402 133]

The problems in Mt vernon are many, If this thead bothers you so much don't read it.  There are others.  If  learning about the problems of the F.D.M.V. offends you, just move on.

←

Learning about the problems? Sounds like whining and ranting about the problems....again....unless you're going to stand up and do something about them. These posts come up over and over again, often by the same people, and the same rants, yet we never hear of an attempt at a resolution.

Why is it so important for us to "learn" about this????? Why don't you do something about this? Are you even a member of MVFD? If so, what do you do to get this situation resolved that doesnt involve posting on an internt forum?

I want to read this thread, but I want to read something actually new.

[Guest]

Learning about the problems? Sounds like whining and ranting about the problems....again....unless you're going to stand up and do something about them. These posts come up over and over again, often by the same people, and the same rants, yet we never hear of an attempt at a resolution.

Why is it so important for us to "learn" about this?????  Why don't you do something about this? Are you even a member of MVFD? If so, what do you do to get this situation resolved that doesnt involve posting on an internt forum?

I want to read this thread, but I want to read something actually new.

←

Yes learning....go to the first post and a couple after. The members are limited as to what the can do. But there are others that will read this and they might find it very interseting which may help the f.d's situation. And I am a member of the F.D.M.V. And when something is decided to resolve this ongoing problem what makes you think you'll be notified. Are you on the " to be notified list" The only one whining is you.

[Guest]

Unforunately, MT.Vernon is just another prime example of a municipality where all of its Emergency Service Personell suffer as a result of a no term limit policy for its Politicians. The FD is not the only agency that's suffering BIG TIME, the PD is also in shambles and forget about their EMS. Can you believe that City only has 1 ambulance in service at all times. My PD buddies have told me, they've waited up to a 1/2 hr for a mutual aid ambulance to respond from north Yonkers on serious trauma incidents. Is that unbelievable or what! This is no BS either. Just ask anyone who works for Empress EMS and they'll tell you the same thing. Unfortunately, the citizens of MT.Vernon will continue to live in the dark with regards to these ever so important issues and their lives, as well as the well being of all their Emergency Personell will always be at risk.

[FF402 133]

So, basically what I get from this is that a couple of Mount Vernon guys want to come on here under the protection of anonymous screenames and rant about their problems. Nothing else, just rant. How do I know this information you are presenting is even factual? You can come on here and say anything you want and dont have to worry about people finding out whos saying it. I don't doubt they exist, it just seems strange that people would come on here and complain, yet not want to do anything about it. Especially this capt415 who has a problem with everything it seems. Who are these "others" you speak of? I think that everybody's who matters to this is well aware of this situation....

And how are the members "limited"? Isn't there a union? Can't you guys fight for whats right? Can't the members band together? If you hate the job so much, why not quit or transfer? What do you define as "abusing mutual aid"? Whats wrong with communities with limited resources, as are many in that area, working together more?

One would also think that buying three new apparatus is a step in the right direction, yet thats still criticized.

In case I'm not making myself clear, how do you reccomend this problem get resolved? Or are you not interested in a resolution, because then youd have nothing to complain about?

[Guest]

Hello.......Ah everybody has a screen name your 402ff. Go ahead and read but I don't think your the intended audience. And as far as not caring about the dangers that the public and firefighters are in..are you serious. Also the first step in solving any problem is to first acknowledge it exsist. We in Mt. Vernon know it exsists. Again if this thread bothers you move on.

[jloftus 28]

I dont no why ff402 is so annoyed unless he's a boss??

I didnt put this out there to beat up old issue's. only for some feed back from others who have to provide there citys as well as Mt. Vernon with fire protection.

I do agree the union President needs to be vocal on this issue but I was trying to hear what other Departments think on this matter.

The bottom line here is only Yonkers provides there city with 1710 standards and they were doing it before the standard came out, this is about whats right and maybe someone here will hit upon something that makes sense.

I still have not heard any one address the Tower Ladder with no escape ladder.

Edited April 25, 2006 by jloftus

[jloftus 28]

Bye the way I'd like to thank EMTBRAVO for giving us this site so this and other issues can be heard and discussed by fellow brothers.

Thank You

[Guest]

ff402 you seem to know alot.....3 new rigs you speak of. Are you ernie? Or do you work for him. I also love the job and the members thats why I voice my concern.

[Guest]

Bye the way I'd like to thank EMTBRAVO for giving us this site so this and other issues can be heard and discussed by fellow brothers.

Thank You

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Ditto

[EJS1810 7]

other then the obvious reslolution of more manpower and better equipment what is a solution?

should these fire departments refuse to go m/a to FDMV?

      i don't know if thats safe for the brothers working there...

←

In my opinion, no one should refuse a Mutual Aid assignment. The Fire Fighters of FDMV deserve the back up provoded by Mutual Aid. The Chief's and City/Town/Village/District Officials of the Departments providing Mutual Aid have to go to the Mount Vernon politicians to effect change.

We should not say anything bad about FDMV because this is the cards they are dealt. I'm sure the Union is not burying thier heads in the sand and is addressing the issue with management (the City). If the City refuses to acknowledge the problem, then the citizens of the city have to change thier leadership.

[jloftus 28]

its not about refuseing MA, never even thought of it , its about the people we serve, MA doesnt protect the working crews, we know how to look out for each other. Where we need help is right from the start, when the bell rings, MA is just the result from a bad start.

[hudson144 150]

this information is better than reading about a favorite recipe for a fruit cake, or where's the best diner or do you wear fruit of the loom or BVD! this is an ongoing problem that may not be resolved ever-however,maybe someday the right person might read what goes on in the lower westchester area when it comes to the mutual aid and its abuse. i say time and time again that it is only at matter of time that someday the worse will happen, i pray that i am wrong but the writing is on the wall. it might not even happen in MV because many other depts are understaffed,mis managed etc. ff 402- someday you might be here putting facts up about where you are involved with the fd. in fact maybe something might go wrong when members of your community fire dept are in MV trying to bail us out!

Edited April 25, 2006 by hudson144

[grumpyff 1,159]

Unfortunatley , I think the union has voiced it complaints to deaf ears at City Hall. If I remember correctly, didn't the Yonkers Union, ( I think when Pagano was its head) bring this problem up, that Yonkers spent more time in Mt Vernon. It was brought up several times in the Journal News ( Distorted Dispatch at the time) in an attempt to get Mt Vernon to improve itself. After a while the pressure died off as Mt Vernon made some improvement

If you hate the job so much, why not quit or transfer? What do you define as "abusing mutual aid"? Whats wrong with communities with limited resources, as are many in that area, working together more?

I dont think quitting would improve the situation at all, it would just put more pressure on the surrounding depts. It seems that money is a big part of the issue. Sure Mt Vernon just purchased 3 new pieces of apparatus, but if there are no spares availible, you leave no room for preventive maintenanace,accidents, mechanical failure. What happened to the apparatus that was replaced? Was it sold/traded in, or was any kept in reserve. From what has been brought up, one piece of apparatus ( the Tower Ladder) was/ or is out of service for almost 8 months, because of an arguement over who was going to pay to fix it, Mt Vernon or the manufacturer. That is ridiculess, just fix it and settle the bills later, in court if necessary. Sure everyone has 'limited assets, but why should Yonkers and New Rochelle citizens have to pay for essential services in Mt Vernon. Yes, mutual aid is called and given by almost every dept in the nation, with few exceptions. From what has been described on this board, it appears ( and maybe I am wrong on this) that Mt Vernon (city hall not FDMV) has the belief that its neighbors will cover Mt Vernon shortcomings.

As for solutions, maybe Mt Vernon's union could start and aggressive campaign in the press including tv coverage. Get the other depts involved such as Yonkers, and New Rochelle to let the taxpayers know what they are not getting in return for thier tax dollars. Do you think that Mt Vernon's residents know they are covered by 2 engines and 1 ambulance, and would they be happy about that situation. I doubt they know about it, but they certainly would care about it if they knew. Let them and the Media pressure the mayor's office about equipment and staffing issues. The Union should be able to document the amount of equipment out of service( and length of time until fixed), mutual aid called, and any unfilled positions in the dept(and how long those spots have been unfilled) Bring up NFPA standards as a guide for what the city should provide, and any OSHA standards that apply. Why should firefighters at FDMV be put in jeopardy because City Hall refuses to acknowledge a problem, or take soom course of action. Hopefully the Mayor will respond to save his job, or be voted out by the public in the next election.

Edited April 25, 2006 by grumpyff

[Guest]

I'm going to throw this in the mix but I don't know if it's even doable since someone might lose their job over it.

Re: the press, the Journal News can write all they want but the readership is local. How about speaking to and inviting the NYTimes, Newsday, Daily News and the local TV channels to come investigate and do an "expose" on the situation ??

Also, is there any way to to trigger a high level County or State investigation into the matter ?.....

just thinking out loud.....

I wholeheartedly support all you guys in the FDMV ! Get out and make yourselves heard !

[Guest]

I'm relatively new to the fire service and I don't pretend to have the experience of others on this site or pretend to know everything about what happens in Mount Vernon. That said, with what I read in these posts about what goes on in the city, what about going to the newspaper, t.v. stations, etc. and let the public not just other firefighters on this website now whats going on in the city's emergency services, pd, fd, ems alike. This may or may not have been tried, and if it has why not try again.

[HFD23 37]

2 new engines built to almost exact FDNY specs if I am not mistaken... FDNY buys low bid... you get what you pay for.... same thing with the new tower ladder, no escape ladder saves money... crappy old school light bar and package saves money... everything down there is about money and the management wants to save money... they don;T care about the FF's of FDMV they Don;T pay them what they should nor do the provide the equipment or staffing necessary.

Does this mean quit?

NO, why because these guys do the job not for the money they do it for the love of the job and pride in working and protecting the city that they live in. (FDMV hires off a residents list only). that's the bottom line quitting lets the management win and that can;T happen. as for solutions I think all the bothers there and the union need to get the word out there to the people and I thing that the M/A departments Chiefs need to get together and put some pressure on the mayor and fire commissioner of the Vern. Don;t refuse to provide M/A but do something to help the FF;S Who work there...

Think about it about 2 weeks back FDMV was using all hands at a supermarket fire and they had a 2nd working fire a block away that Pelham manor and New Ro FD's as well as Fairview and Greenville were dispatched to. think about those response times.. FFD and GFD were toned out to respond from their own quarters to the scene think about that response... the times for one, and the distance your now putting those FF's on the rigs responding at greater risk due to the distance necessary to respond, because we all know there is a risk every time you turn on those lights and sirens of a accident and the distance to travel increases it.

lastly if its true FDMV only has 2 engines in service at a time or even 3 at a time think about when they send M/A a engine and truck to new ro or any where that could leave 1 engine in the city? is that rite? even if its 2 that's ridiculous!!!!

[Guest]

Hey Grumpy, your absolutely right and many of your suggestions have been carried out unfortunately to no avail. I personally believe that the majority of citizens there all believe the same thing, and that's that their house won't burn. They're no different than many individuals who are more concerned about their garbage being picked up and police patroling their neighborhoods. They honestly believe there's more of a chance of their home being overrun by rats and criminals, than of it burning to the ground. Because God knows that won't happen to them, only their neighbors. Right? I could be wrong but I thought the intended purpose of the M/A Policy was to provide Fire Protection for a neighboring community, while their members were busy fighting a multiple alarm fire or simultaneous fires. Not to constantly be called every time the Dept. gets your average bread and butter fire. What I believe many of the FDMV members are saying is they need the assistance of the surrounding municipalities, which includes their Unions, Dept.Heads, and City Officials, if they are going to get anywhere with this issue. If you recall correctly, it wasn't just Pagano that put up a fight and brought this problem to a head, it was also Mayor Spencer that said enough is enough. Then again he's a Republican and had no use for Mt.Vernon's Democratic Regime anyway. I don't think you'll get that from Mayor Ernie's neighboring Democratic buddies. Believe me every FDMV member on this forum has been fighing this up hill battle for quite some time and are only interested in improving the safety for their members and civilians at large. Not just ranting and whining. What I still can't understand though, is how or even why some of the smaller Combo Depts. continually send apparatus with a full compliment of men to the Vern, when they cant provide this same Fire Protection on any other given day for their own citizens. I don't care if you call back guys or not, it still puts peoples lives at risk even if it is only for a 1/2hr. Even more ludicrous than this, is FDMV sending companies on M/A leaving only 3 engines and 1 truck in the City many times, to protect 85,000 residents. This also inludes responding on M/A to Yonkers, who I might add is the last to respond to MV and will not sit in their Stations for more than an hour prior to returning to their juristiction. Anyway, I still believe this is an important issue to be discussed, more so then "What's your favorite Diner, Why is it called a Wetdown or some Jackass doing 120mph on the Sprain.'' By the way What's Good in Tuckahoe?

[20y2 43]

That one ambulance is 'donated' to MV out of the kindness of Empress' heart, if I remember correctly Mt. Vernon hasn't had a formal contract with Empress for years.

[exmrvfc 0]

jloftus & big al,

I think everyone feels for the boys in MVFD. My suggestion for the Union would be to draw out a long term game plan for incremental gains in manpower and equipment. You guys did a pretty good job of hounding the Mayor over the equipment and it finlly paid off with the recent purchases. Not that it solved all of your needs but it was a good start. The escape ladder is a good example of the system still being broken.

Every time there is a 10-75 and MA is called to the scene, document how many companies were out of service and how many men were on shift. Then take that info to the press and let them resurrect the debate over mutual aid. FDNY recenlty went to the press with the condition of there reserve equipment and that got pretty good airtime. Use the statistics to your advantage.

1710 staffing may not be a possiblity but if you can at least get enough companies to handle a single alarm fire without mutual aid that would be a start.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Would any of the conditions in FDMV qualify for NYS PESH (OSHA) to step in and investigate? Things such as the tower ladder with no escape ladder? I agree with exmrvfc that the union needs to plan for the long term. The media might be the best way at this point to shame the politicians in acting. Look at the Library roof a few years ago.. .tons of media attention(Journal News And News12) until repairs were started. FDMV needs to do the same for its problems. No matter what, something needs to be done, and the union should not rest until problems are solved. Make the noise, what is Mayor Davis and City Hall going to do, abolish FDMV. I think not.