Westchester County Centralized Fire/EMS 911 System

[RWC130 594]

I just had this amazing brain storming idea come to mind.

Check out this concept:

1. Lets have POLICE DISPATCHERS dispatch POLICE units.

2. Lets have FIRE DISPATCHERS dispatch FIRE units.

3. Lets have EMS DISPATCHERS dispatch EMS units,

and utilize EMD.

If your municipality does not have FIRE DISPATCHERS and

EMS DISPATCHERS who are EMD certified then guess what?

You need to utilize the resources in Westchester County who can provide this service.

Westchester County DES "60-Control"

The days of having your local PD dispatching your FD and or VAC

just have to end. Do you hear some of this half-@$$ dispatching?

You place a 911 call to your local PD for Grandma who is having chest pains. While your on the phone giving information to the PD dispatcher they get a radio call from an Officer calling a 10-13 Officer down, at the same time the other phone line rings calling in a barking dog, other line rings reporting a house on fire with people trapped. What does this dispatcher do? My scenario may be a little far fetched but don't think for a minute it has not happened. It has and it will continue to happen.

An old saying... If your not part of the solution then you might be part of the problem.

I am not here to point fingers at anyone or bash any agency. We all do our best and trust me I know that. It just annoys me to see the resources available to us and not being used.

The days of "Help is on the way" Click... have to end.

Oh yeah.... Is help really "On the way"? That is a whole other topic.

[mikeinet 37]

RW - to be honest... your 911 situation is anywhere. I dispatch EMS (yes, with EMD) and I've been in the middle of emergency calls when I get a "signal 10-50 - man down" while trying to go though EMD procedures (it was hit by accident, but still) - its part of juggling everything (not to mention if you get multiple emergency calls at once all involving pre-arrivals?)

I do agree that everything should be split up by agency. I've seen the Ondagaga (spelling?) county call center and I have to say I'm damn impressed. They are all split up into teams - they have X number of people taking 911 calls only - no dispatching - just call taking, fire/ems (W/ EMD)/police and entering it into the computer. They then have three different teams for Fire/EMS/Police dispatch + communications. Runs really smoothly not to mention that all EMS calls are prioritized (Arrest = P1 (Emergency Response + ALS), General Sickness = P3 (non-emergency) and ALS is dispatched virtually automatically if the agency doesn't provide it.

It just makes more sense to have everything centralized in one location - makes it easier to get more units when needed.

My $0.02.

[WAS967 97]

If you want to complain about the PDs being first line PSAPs, then don't go to the county. It is a New York State law that requires that all 911 calls in the state be recieved initially by a police agency.

[PVFD113 6]

Point taken WAS--when they get the call--saying I need an ambulance or my house is on fire--they push the button to transfer and can listen in or go about their business and not get tied. Police business does need it's own deal. Fire and ems should be at 60.

[EJS1810 7]

WAS967, can you elaborate on your statement. I work for the Putnam County Sheriff's Department which is currently the 911 dispatch center but that will change when the Putnam County Bureau of Emergency Services Center opens. Is this a State Law, if so what section of the law?

[RWC130 594]

Hands down... 60 is the way to go!

I have no problem with the initial 911 call going to a Police Dept that's the was our PCAP's are set up and rightfully so!

My concern is how the call is handled by the Police Dept once they get the Fire Call or EMS Call. I will give you a case and point: About 2-3 years ago a Police Dept in Westchester got a 911 call for a House Fire. This PD sent a Patrol Car to "Check" to see if it was a House Fire before sending any Fire Apparatus. Why? I will never know.

The Officer arrived to find flames blowing out the windows. I would say a delay in FD response was at least 5-7 minutes if not more. Whoops! How do you justify that? Know It still happens here in Westchester County today.

If a Fire Dispatcher were to get a call for a Man with a Gun would they send an Engine to see if it's a real gun before calling the PD? No, they would not. I don't feel Police Departments should be dispatching Fire and or EMS. They have a hard enough job just doing PD stuff. Phones, Radios, Running Data's, Etc.

Mikeinet, thanks for your comment and support. I know all about the excellent 911 system that Onondaga County has. It works very well. The residents of Westchester and we the Rescuers would benefit from a system like this.

My point is that PD's should dispatch POLICE and POLICE only.

FIRE should dispatch FIRE and FIRE only. EMS should dispatch EMS and EMS only. EMD all 911 EMS calls. It does save lives.

All Police Departments in Westchester Count have a lil white button on the 911 terminal that is labeled "FCON" for Fire Control (60-Control)

I think they need to start using it! "911 Police, Fire, or Medical"?

If it's not a Police matter transfer it.

I am not a salesman for 60-Control nor do I work for them but you guys who utilize your PD for Fire and or EMS dispatching should really evaluate your 911 system.

The life you save may be your own.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The important thing is that the public is receiving the service they depend on (and pay taxes for).

No they are not...that's the problem!

Westchester County's E911 system breaks every principal and recommendation made by NENA and the Presidents Commission on Emergency Telecommunications of 1973.  The standard of care for emergency medical calls is not met when a vast majority of citizens do not receive EMD.  The very nature of having untrained or ill trained dispatchers or police officers answering calls and then by their very nature holding back calls that medical or fire personnel should be sent on is riduculous.

Westchester is on of the wealthiest counties in the country.  It is one of the highest taxed as well but yet we have sub par 911 systems.   You cannot tell me, or convince me that we have the best we can right now.  Something that is the best you can do right now is obsolete tomorrow!

In addition, Weschester County Executive law, I believe named PD as the PSAP's for the county.  I cannot find any NYS law that says PD has to answer.  If that's the case Dutchess would also be in violation.  Which to me is a good violation.  The county should have added a floor in the new State Police/SEMO building in Hawthorne and combined 60 Control and Westchester PD dispatch staff and made them the PSAP for the county, with some just as call takers and a few manning the dispatch consoles.

[PVFD113 6]

Great point ALS. I do believe all dispatchers at 60 are EMD certified. The people are getting the service--just waiting a few seconds more to get it. It is better than what they had which was nothing.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Ah, ok. I see now, your speaking Mohegan specific. I'm talking county wide.

60 Control has just finished recertifying their personnel in EMD. Problem still remains they do not have a complete policy requiring EMD on all calls, which in itself has documented proof of successful lawsuits against agencies that were doing the same thing. My points are the fact that only 8 EMS agencies are dispatched by 60, and a few of the FD's that run ambulance also. Now, you can't get EMD if your not on the phone, most PD's are not transferring the calls the way they should. In fact the PSAP for where I work shows above 80% calls received for medical reason by 60 control were sent by phone....NOT ANI/ALI which would constitute a proper PSAP transfer.

Factor those numbers in with places like Ossining, Croton, Briarcliff and such...large numbers are not getting EMD. I'm not sure if White Plains EMD's, I believe Greenburgh and Empress does. But this is unsatisfactory.

[mikeinet 37]

It's not even the fact of if EMD is or is not being used. I was actually talking to someone at 60ctl the other day about this. The larger issue here is that (besides many corp's not being dispatched by 60ctl) many agencies want to make the call for ALS on their own when they start responding or get on scene.

Instead of following typcial EMD procedures and sending calls on a priority level, the calls are just being dispatched with a chief complaint -- pretty much not giving any real use to the EMD procedures besides for pre-arrivals.

[Grumpy 1]

PVFD 113, in your post recorded at 9:12pm, May 31st, You say "It is better than what they had which was nothing". Then in the following post , alsfirefighter thinks you're referring to Mohegan FD. Are you? LMFD is far from nothing. Previously you mentioned, "Lets work together". Well, talk like that will not help the situation. Maybe you're just referring to dispatching. If so, say so. 60 Control is an improvement, don't insult the past!

[Grumpy 1]

Now that I've said all that would an EMS guy tell me what EMD is exactly? Thanks

[mikeinet 37]

EMD cards is a system utilized to help identify problems, severity of the problems, and any pre-arrival instructions that should be given to the caller by a dispatcher.

The cards are broken down into a case entry (location of caller, phone#, etc. vital info) and then broken down into call specific questions - ie: under the "Fall Victim" card - how far did they fall, how long ago did it happen... and depending how setup, can determine how a priority of a call is set, ALS is dispatched, etc.

http://www.911dispatch.com/emd/emd-prs.html is web based version (for the most part) of the cards

http://www.911dispatch.com/emd/emd.html has some further background info on the EMD system

[PVFD113 6]

Ok for the clarification--the county as a whole needs to work on the dispatch issues as ALS had said. Mohegan specific--not an insult--they were not trained EMD dispatchers--not their fault--not their job either--60 in a step in the right direction. Sometimes people over analyze statements!!! And as far as directing my comments at mohegan--some were--situation specific as noted I believe--the delay in dispatch mainly.

We should all work together--period . Like I also said before--I think at times people blow this issue out of proportion and/or over analyze comments made here.

Sorry to those who may have been offended.

[WAS967 97]

I can find out more from the powers that be, but it was my understanding that it was state law. Maybe it is just county law.

[1075thebox 1]

EMD is not the only benefit of 60 Control.

For all those in the fire service, you can benefit greatly from the CIDS Info that is stored. CIDS info gives address specific information about a building, complex, etc.

Building type, construction, water supply issues, standpipe hookups, occupancy info, etc.

The CAD (Computer-Aided Dispatch) program 60 utilizes is great. It has its minor issues, but thats a county way of life. As soon as an address is entered in the CAD, it tells the dispatcher who to send, the cross-streets, and provides a map of the area. If mutual aid is needed, fall-back lists are there, automatically suggesting the next mutual aid agency.

Furthermore, if you get dispatched by your own PD or FD, you only have the capability of transmitting from one tower. What if it craps out? Its happened to us several times. Guess what, we have to have 60 Control dispatch us from one or more of the NINE 46.26 towers in the county.

So, on top of getting pre-arrival instrucitons for EMS - the benefits of 60 control dispatching keeps going. For more info, go to the following: www.westchestergov.com/emergserv and click on the 60 control icon.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Mikeint: I agree fully. We still have that argument here where we no longer want to respond to every call. Waste of resources. Out of laziness on my own part, the poing I'm trying to make is about pre arrival instructions and just lumped them together with "EMD."

[x635 4,066]

Here's a thought:

Try explaining how the 911 PSPAP system works in Westchester County to someone unfamiliar with the system.

[Mofire24 27]

I have been on both sides of the dispatch was orignally fire and ems and Police Dispatcher I know when i work and receive and aided call via 911 or any emergency line i automatically transfer the call to fire control so if the call needs to be emded it is

[Guest x901]

You should take a look at how Yonkers Dispatches..... PD has their own dispatch which then transfers the call to YONKERS Fire Control & Empress Communications (which does EMD). And on the most part all 3 talk to each other via tie lines.

[RWC130 594]

801,

I am very familiar with the dispatch at Empress. I was once an

employee (1997) I had some good times, even saved a patient

or two. haha I listen in every now and then you guys sound good.

RWC130: "A25 to Central we are 10-8, our patient is DOA"

It's too bad not all EMS providers had the EMD system such as Empress, Westchester DES, and Greenburgh PD. If I missed anyone PLEASE by let me know.

[Guest Mstremt]

Let me First say that EMD is an absolute must for all 911 dispatch centers answering ems calls. It is a little known fact that dotnithsa mandated emd for all agencies answering ems calls back in 1976 however, forwhatever reasons agencies and states have been slow getting it in place. starting 1.1.04 the state of CT mandated emd for all of its psaps in that state. i hope other states will follow suit. (pardon the pun) It maybe not be too well known that dispatch agencies are held to standards such as if Town (a) receives a 911 call for a baby choking and the telecommunicator Does P A I and the child lives and a dispatcher that receives the same call in Town B and he/she doesn't do P A I and the child dies A court (and or jury) can find town B liabile just because of standards set but other communitites. ( I beleive The case law involves the town of bloomfield CT PD)

Secondly, Rob I hear what you say with speciality dispatching, I do believe The State of NY HAS DROPPED THE BALL when it came to training of dispatchers dispatching of emergency services. Other States Again such as CT have statutory mandates regarding 911 dispatching and training of personell. You make a valid point however i still think that a properly trained PD dispatcher can effectly dispatch ems and fd units also but , Again the dispatch center must have the correct number resources and proper training.

and btw i know the answer to your ems question regarding the first als job in yorktown. HEHE

[x635 4,066]

The above post brings up another thought to mind.........should a dispatcher be a certification, just like an EMT, Firefighter, or Police Officer is certified in their profession????

I think so, Dispatching is a profesion nowadays...and should be treated as one.

[mikeinet 37]

Right now, I'm personally not a EMT (dispatching EMS, taking EMT class in the fall though) and I do think that it helps.

I've been working with people who are EMT's, and some of the things they do while taking calls and dispatching, is more from an EMT point of view such as knowing how severe something can be, recommending something EMD cards may not, but any EMT would...

I personally think it's a great plus to be an EMT/Firefighter dispatching the above given. (maybe should even be required)

[WAS967 97]

The problem with certifying someone as a dispatcher is that there is no real "standardization" to dispatch centers. Every single one that I have seen is different. Sure some of the radios are the same, but procedures, frequencies, how you talk on the radio, etcvary greatly. A majority of the training you get as a dispatcher is in sitting down with someone who knows the system and learning it as you go. If you take your training as a dispatcher at 60 control and go to work as a dispatcher in Dutchess, it's not quite plug and play (tho no where is). What could you really teach in a dispatcher certification class aside from EMD that is universal?

[x635 4,066]

What could you really teach in a dispatcher certification class aside from EMD that is universal?

There are several disaptcher certification curriculums from APCO.

I'm not saying the class has to be long and drawn out, but there are several things that should be covered to provide a solid foundation in which agencies can build off of.

Introduction to Fire, EMS and/or PD:(not all come from the background), Caller interviewing and information gathering techniques, voice lessons (lol), managing multiple units and calls, dealing with equipment failures, E911 consoles (plant equipment is pretty much universal in NYS),EMD,......and practical skills using simulators. I've got to go now, but the list can go on and on.

Thumbs up to the Telecommunicator Certification.

[RES20CUE 40]

APCO puts on some great courses. Another company called PowerPhone, does a great job as well. Back when I was a dispatcher (last century :-P ), I took courses by both.

The Standard, Advanced, and Supervisor APCO courses are available at the State Fire Academy in Montour Falls.

For those of you that are up on National Certifications. There are certifications for Public Safety Telecommunicator I and II.

The "professional qualification standards" can be found in NFPA 1061.

[Guest Mstremt]

If you research a little you'll be able to find all sorts of training that is required and or available ,as Rescue20 ,puts it Apco and Powerphone do a great job with their training programs and many states do require you as a dispatcher to take and pass practical and written exams! if you are interested go to the CT Dept of Public Safety webpage to see all the telecommunications laws and standards regarding TELECOMMUNICATIONS and TELECOMMUNICATORS in the STATE of CT

http://www.state.ct.us/dps/DFEBS/OSET/oset.htm

I must say the state of connecticut is way ahead of NY in Telecommunications ( yes the the correct term is Telecommunicator)

(not dispatcher)

53 hours and written and practical exams and a passing score of 70% seems alot better than just sitting with a telecommunicator and hoping you'll get a call lets all wake up and push for better standards for telecommunicators!! Remember your life maybe in their hands!!!

Oh and yes I passed the course with a handsome 93% thank you

[RWC130 594]

Mikeinet,

You brought up an interesting topic of agencies waiting to get on scene to dispatch ALS.

In MY opinion it's a really bad move!

Depending on the time and where your ALS unit is located you could be looking at up to 15 minutes. As EMT's we are taught do not delay transport waiting for ALS. So don't delay dispatching them!

What would YOU want for your family member? Hmmm

[mikeinet 37]

RWC, you are preaching to the choir.

If a call is "a person has been bleeding, unable to stop the bleeding for 30min" why wouldn't you call ALS?

If a call is "Cardiac Arrest" why would you await for a BLS ambulance to get on scene before calling ALS?

EMD cards are a great utility and resource, they should be taken with more careful recognition and used for how they are designed, they arn't designed to say "dispatch als" for no reason!

There's always room for improvement, especially in emergency services, this is just one example.