Yorktown structure fire 7-17-06

[JohnnyOV 2]

First I would like to thank all units assisting us on this job, as you know the way the house was build with the plaster ceiling made it extreamly hard to fight, and I would like to commend all who showed up and put up a good fight.

Units who assisted include, BHFD TL57, Somers E188, Millwood, Ossining FAST, and I belive I saw Croton Falls there too...Again thanks for all of your help.

edit: remember585 has the full unit list

Edited July 18, 2006 by EMSJunkie712

[Dondestro 9]

kisco FAST was also there

[Shantz02 0]

EMS, can you provide more details of this job. It was about 3 blocks from my buddy's girlfriend's house.

[Guest]

nice stop on a tough day to have a fire. the guys that went inside took a beating. the building construction was no help either. thanks for the invite!

[Guest DerekGrisantiYHFD]

nice stop on a tough day to have a fire. the guys that went inside took a beating. the building construction was no help either

←

you can say all that again

[Remember585 815]

Units I heard:

Yorktown: 2532, 2533, E271, E273, L51, R16 (Perhaps others)

Somers: 2441, E188

Mohegan: 2263, E255 FAST

Bedford Hills: 2031, 2033, TL57

Millwood: 2251, 2253, E248 (Original relocate to YHFD HQ)

Croton: 2083, 2084, E118

Mount Kisco: 2283, U13 FAST

Ossining: 2332. E98, U51 FAST

YVAC

Battalion 17

Peekskill: E133 to YHFD Sta. 2

I hope you guys get some rest tonight - it was a real crummy day to be working a tough job. Good job by the YHFD for recognizing the need for rest time and for calling in relief.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I hope you guys get some rest tonight

←

im hitting the sack right now and dont plan on awaking till late morning

[Guest]

YHFD also took good care of us all during the fire. Plenty of water, food, and then more water..... When its 95 deg out, that hydration was key.....

[Guest car2267]

I would like to thank Yorktown fd for asking us to partake in the "beating"

[ytpastchief99-00 6]

I would like to thank all that help us at YHFD. For those that were there this house at one time had a flat roof, and in most places was still there.

Thank You again.

ytpastchief99-00 (2532)

[ONLOCATION 24]

Was a tough Fire to Fight, Battling the Heat, Humidity, and the Building Construction all together was not Good Combination. Was insane watching the operations with the two roofs......Awesome Job to all units Onlocation. Pictures will be coming soon.

Congrats on Breaking in Ladder 51 aswell.

[WAS967 97]

Just curious: Why not call a second ladder from Mohegan or Somers? Why the pull all the way from Bedford? Same with that FAST team from Ossining. Doesn't Mahopac now have a FASTeam as well?

Edited July 18, 2006 by WAS967

[JeffSlots 1]

WOW i cant believe it monday morning quaterbacking within 3 hours of the scene being cleared! It was shitty conditions with a heavy fire load, Yorktowns Chief got a lot of people there to help out in the brutal conditions - and he did what he thought was right!!!

So why not for the first time in EMT Bravo history, people dont second guess and tell others what to do

and instead say Good Job guys - Good work by all!

[Monty 35]

I don't think anyone doubts the tremendous work that was done by all - as many have said. Especially given the brutual conditions.

However, I believe part of the purpose of EMT Bravo is to learn and to improve the way we carry out our profession.

I think the question WAS967 asks are very valid. I don't believe he is personally putting anyone down. I think it is a valid question that should be asked. At one point an engine was responding from Valhalla to the scene (FTC). In my mind, a good decision was made to send an alternative engine from Croton instead.

Perhaps the County Chiefs should consider a County working group or something. Why not move the closest departments up, piggy back with the next being put on Standby, responding Code 2 (no lights /siren) to the station, in a proactive way? As has been talked about in other threads, we want to reduce the risks knowing what we know today. Why risk a 20 minute response code 1? If there's a concern about different departments capabilities / training levels / abilities to play nice etc, set up some standards, enforce them, exclude those that don't make the cut. If there's a concern about manpower, or people burn out I'm sure most FF's would be happy to respond in this manner knowing they may be put to good use at a worker than standing by at a wires or CO call waiting for Con-Ed.

Again, just to iterate, nothing against YFD - great job, congratulations on winning a very difficult battle, especially given all the factors in play. But - we can critique in a positive way and look to improve the future. Just because this one went well, doesn't mean the next will.

Monty.

[INIT915 1,119]

When someone starts a post with "Just curious", how come it is so hard to believe that maybe they are genuinely interested in knowing and looking towards those who were on the scene to say "...it was because...".

Maybe it will allow those without significant fire backgrounds to actually learn something. Maybe someone in the "know" could explain that certain ladders are better equipped for such and such, or certain departments are more appropriate in this situation because such and such...

[JohnnyOV 2]

Just curious: Why not call a second ladder from Mohegan or Somers? Why the pull all the way from Bedford? Same with that FAST team from Ossining. Doesn't Mahopac now have a FASTeam as well?

←

i personally am not sure, but I'll check with the chief and ask. Im sure its because we were going to be calling for more engine companies and didnt want to drain their resources...but i'll have a deffinate answer later tonight

[RES20CUE 40]

Units I heard:

Yorktown: 2532, 2533, E271, E273, L51, R16 (Perhaps others)

Somers: 2441, E188

Mohegan: 2263, E255 FAST

Bedford Hills: 2031, 2033, TL57

Millwood: 2251, 2253, E248 (Original relocate to YHFD HQ)

Croton: 2083, 2084, E118

Mount Kisco: 2283, U13 FAST

Ossining: 2332. E98, U51 FAST

YVAC

Battalion 17

Peekskill: E133 to YHFD Sta. 2

←

Also-

Somers also had E181 on standby at Lincolndale, then relocated to YHFD HQ when E248 was brought into the scene. Katonah 2212, 2213 and E115 relocted to Somers HQ

Car 2, Battalion 16, Battalion 24, C&O Zone 4

[Guest]

Hey everybody....

What radio frequencies were used at the job?

[4truck48 25]

Why is it considered Monday Morning Quarterbacking when someone asks a question that other people may also be thinking? It seems to me that the main question should be shouldn't a department be able to handle a residential fire without involving 200 firefighters ( Jourmal News artilcle ) and eight fire departments. I relize it was hot and relief and FAST teams were needed, but 200 firefighters, eight departments. We have to get away from the mindset that " It's a party lets all go"

[huzzie59 75]

WAS965's question was not out of line. We're here to learn. Questions need to be asked by curious people.

Every call needs to be critiqued. (Maybe 3 hours after was a little too early). But I want to learn how the leaders of our departments think and their reasoning.

I never "second guess" a call when everyone goes home safe. If the chief called for mutual aid from FDNY and everyone went home safe, who cares? But I would like to know why he called them. That's how I learn.

[Cutty630 37]

here are so of the pictures taken by one of our members.......

BEDFORD HILLS FD WEBPAGE

[FirNaTine 370]

WAS965's question isn't Monday morning quarterbacking. Let's face it guys, some Depts. Leadership call or don't call for that matter other Depts. on M/A, because of pesonal reasons, whether good or bad. I'm not saying that this happened in this case, but I have witnessed this act on more than one occassion throughout upper and lower West.Cnty. Sooner or later, someone is going to pay the price for this irrational decission making, either with a loss of property or a life. I'd hate to be the IC in charge of an incident that escalated and included fatalaties, because a further Dept., where my brother, relative, or friend was working, was called to the scene before a neighboring Dept. Especially, if it's a LOD death, and a closer FAST TEAM was available than the one requested. Let's always remember the welfare of the firefighters and the civilians we protect comes first, not friendship or personal grudges. P.S. Nice job at getting that roof open under such harsh conditions Yorktown. My hat goes off to you guys.

[huzzie59 75]

TPWS - You are out of line.

You are making assumptions.

That's not what this forum is about!

The question was asked, now wait for the response.

You have no facts to say anything, so don't say anything.

Edited July 18, 2006 by huzzie59

[Guest DG795]

For any of you that are "curious" about this fire, call (914) 962-2148, or email mmcgannon@yorktownfire.org, and any of your questions will be happily answered.

I am serious, if you want to know why something was done or not done, go straight to the source. There is a reason for everything.

P.S. For those of you looking for a learning experience, Why not ask about apparatus placement, building construction, strategy/tactics, etc. More could be learned from this than which companies responded.

We will be looking forward to hearing from you.

Edited July 18, 2006 by DG795

[huzzie59 75]

DG795 - Great Answer!

But if people have legitimate questions that we can all learn from, post the answers.

We all need to learn!

[ONLOCATION 24]

Seriously......Everytime, who's going to be the first one to Quarterback Dobbs Ferry's Job today?............Point blank its to Hot to be Doing this s*** Period. Worrying if any members of the Service went down due to Heat related incidents is what should be worried about.

On that Note of Rehab, Rehab at this Job was well done by the Efforts of YVAC and whoever else assisted........great Job.

[EMTbravo 312]

For any of you that are "curious" about this fire, call (914) 962-2148, or email mmcgannon@yorktownfire.org, and any of your questions will be happily answered.

I am serious, if you want to know why something was done or not done, go straight to the source. There is a reason for everything.

P.S. For those of you looking for a learning experience, Why not ask about apparatus placement, building construction, strategy/tactics, etc. More could be learned from this than which companies responded.

We will be looking forward to hearing from you.

←

Well said, DG795. I'd also like to add that tt's not so much the fact of people discussing the job that is the issue, it's the fact that often people making comments on the job don't have the complete and/or accurate set of facts. For instance, the closest FAS team could have been out at another job during the time of dispatch.

The other problem is you have some people who like to come on here, hide behind a screen name, and bash or make out of place comments.

BUT....with that in mind......let's not all get so defensive when a question is asked. As I have been learning recently, sometimes a healthy discussion on here enlightens a lot of people, fuels change, and gives us all a chance to learn from the diverse emergency services population with different experiences on this forum. If you're truly confident in your operations, then take the time to explain it to others so they will understand. Encourage your officers to come on here and discuss the details of the job. Don't just sit here and bash the board and members, or sit there silently complain about this forum.....let's all work together and use this forum....a tool....to learn and improve the fire service constructively.

Please don't mistake the above comment though....we will NEVER tolerate bashing of a department or agency, nor are we looking to let this become a complete "rant" site.

[Guest]

was967

i will answer your question to the best of my knolledge of being a commander from mkfd. when possible you try not to strip departments of everything they have. you pick out what departments can serve you what you need at that time. one thing we must remember is that engines are plentyfull in westchester, on the other hand ladders and towers are not. so when the chief says 1 engine from somers, 1 fas team from mohegan, their departments can still function if they get a fire in their own town. bhfd has a good truck company with a rig that has everything but a kitchen sink. not to take anything away from somers or mohegan, they are excellent at what they do! so if you take one piece from every department you dont strip towns and they still function. in my opinion the ic did a great job with the conditions he was facing.

[Grumpy 1]

Good job Y'Town! Considering the weather, the construction of the house, and rehab requirements, well done! As far as M/A questions, WAS965 and others have a right to ask. Want to learn? Ask. I've had over thirty years on the job in Westchester (retired) and M/A still has no set pattern. While in Maryland in the 70's for some fire training I saw a lot about how M/A should go. Chief or OIC sees what he needs and tells the Control Center. That's it! Control takes over. Over 35 years later, we're not there! I can see the local OIC calling for FAST or initial needs right away, but major needs should be handled by 60 Control and the Battalion with M/A charts. Why aren't they? Hiding behind Screen Names? Just about everybody uses them. Who wants unneeded calls?

[Guest]

For any of you that are "curious" about this fire, call (914) 962-2148, or email mmcgannon@yorktownfire.org, and any of your questions will be happily answered.

I am serious, if you want to know why something was done or not done, go straight to the source. There is a reason for everything.

P.S. For those of you looking for a learning experience, Why not ask about apparatus placement, building construction, strategy/tactics, etc. More could be learned from this than which companies responded.

We will be looking forward to hearing from you.

[

I totally agree with you. being a former member from 98-05 I have had the honor to serve under Chief McGannon, Furrci,DiBartolo And other line officers in that period. Many of you know them, and also have had the honor, so here is my thoughts. First off being at many fires, PIAAs, and other calls. I have total faith and trust in any other chief or asst that has served under these men. And, I would gladly enter any fire knowing the training they have instilled in every member of YHFD, and also knowing that they have my back. As for the questions that have been raised in this thread, well simply put.........Better to have to much if things go south, then to have not enough. And then, what would be said????? Something to the effect of "why didnt they have more there."

Well, I think as always YHFD did a great job, and lets all agree on that and that when all is said and done..EVERYBODY went home after!!!! And isnt that all that really matters?!?!?!

I wasnt there, but I am sure Chief Maloney and McGannon had good reasons for the desions made. Again great job brothers, and lets leave it at that.

One more thing guys, for thoses of you questioning what was done, what would you do in the same situation and under the same conditions. well thats my thoughts fellas.

might i also add( correct me if i am wrong) that Yorktown Mohegan and Bedforg Hills were among the First FAS teams in northern westchester, and trained many other depts.

Edited July 19, 2006 by krs940