Hillary Gets Ovation from IAFF

[Guest]

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1432033520070314

comments...

[Remember585 815]

I am in no way a political kind of guy, but it makes me get that sick feeling everytime 9/11 is dragged into politics. I don't discredit the IAFF's choices, nor anyone else's - but nothing angers me more in life then politicians and election time.

I hate the fact that all the heroic things done by Firefighters, Police and EMS prior to and even after 9/11 don't really mean a thing. These low-life politicians, or as I call them, "DaVincis of Bullshit," will say whatever it is that the crowd they are standing in front of wants to hear. "Heroes of 9/11," - only because you want their votes!!!

How often do members of the political world go to Small Town USA to pay their condolences to a Firefighter that dies in the Line of Duty? Do all these DC heavy-hitters come out and pay tribute to every Cop killed? Can they even name some of those lost on 9/11 - those "heroes" that they speak so highly of? I doubt it, furthermore, I don't even care if they could. If I ever die in the line of duty I would hope that each person (all 5 of you) in attendance would do me a solid and kick these vote-mooching a******* out of the service. Go pass out your BS and pamphlets somewhere else!

Rant out!

Edited March 15, 2007 by Remember585

[Guest]

Hillarly is a 21st century carpetbagger if you ask me. She's soposed to be my senator, but she wouldn't even commit to the next 6 year term. It's real evident that she has my intrest at heart...

[Guest alsfirefighter]

alpha we usually agree, but by her not committing to another 6 year term means nothing to me. She's no different then any other senator whom opts to run for office or just decides they've had enough an opts not to run. That doesn't bother me.

I have other issues, which regardless of who stands up and backs her prevents me from giving any support. She often waffles decisions and even goes against things she once supported as the first lady and wants to reverse governmental policies her draft dodging, perjuring husband put into effect. I could list several but then I'll get accused of liberal bashing (who me?) or run the risk of having the thread closed as once happened when I stated nothing but fact and opinion about Charles Rangle. Just one quick hint (hey I had to) deals with the current "uproar" about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a Marine General who made a statement about a certain lifestyle is 'immoral.' Her husband put the don't ask don't tell policy into effect and now she says its wrong and should be repealed. Make up your mind sweetie.

What I can say is that she has fought for many benefits for career firefighters and the fire service and her husband did the same. President Clinton established the Fire Act Grants and did good lobbying for the heart bill. Democrats are also known in recent years to be more pro-labor then repubilicans after President Reagan trumped a union strike of air traffic controllers in the early 80's. Its just about every other view of her and most of her party I do not agree with and the fact she had to come here to run for senate and no matter what ever happens, the entire state of NY cannot trump NYC's democrat heavy voters.

[ex-commish 490]

I am in no way a political kind of guy, but it makes me get that sick feeling everytime 9/11 is dragged into politics.  I don't discredit the IAFF's choices, nor anyone else's - but nothing angers me more in life then politicians and election time.

I hate the fact that all the heroic things done by Firefighters, Police and EMS prior to and even after 9/11 don't really mean a thing.  These low-life politicians, or as I call them, "DaVincis of Bullshit," will say whatever it is that the crowd they are standing in front of wants to hear.  "Heroes of 9/11," - only because you want their votes!!!

How often do members of the political world go to Small Town USA to pay their condolences to a Firefighter that dies in the Line of Duty?  Do all these DC heavy-hitters come out and pay tribute to every Cop killed?  Can they even name some of those lost on 9/11 - those "heroes" that they speak so highly of?  I doubt it, furthermore, I don't even care if they could.  If I ever die in the line of duty I would hope that each person (all 5 of you) in attendance would do me a solid and kick these vote-mooching a******* out of the service.  Go pass out your BS and pamphlets somewhere else!

Rant out!

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Brother I feel your frustration and understand totally what you are saying. The IAFF, NVFC, etc will support who they think will support thier interests. Most career ff's I know wouldnt vote for her even if she ran unnoposed but as far as the organizations it's all politics so my friend I suggest we all just get used to the rhetoric, smoke blowong, and down right lies that will encompass us until November 2008.

Also, democrats usually are more labor friendly than republicans in her case she is also using Guliani' issues with the FDNY as ammuntion. She is very smart and witty. How else could someone from a state that had a larger unemployment average than the U.S. get elected in a state where she never paid a dime of taxes to. She sole a bill of goods and people bought it.

What is sad is nither party has yet to produce any viable person as of yet. This election could be the beginning of the end. Watch the stock market in months to come.

[Guest]

Unless youre a member of the IAFF this shouldnt really bother you.

Me personally, when I read that I almost threw up in my mouth!

[Guest]

alpha we usually agree, but by her not committing to another 6 year term means nothing to me.  She's no different then any other senator whom opts to run for office or just decides they've had enough an opts not to run.  That doesn't bother me.

I have other issues, which regardless of who stands up and backs her prevents me from giving any support.  She often waffles decisions and even goes against things she once supported as the first lady and wants to reverse governmental policies her draft dodging, perjuring husband put into effect.  I could list several but then I'll get accused of liberal bashing (who me?) or run the risk of having the thread closed as once happened when I stated nothing but fact and opinion about Charles Rangle.  Just one quick hint (hey I had to) deals with the current "uproar" about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a Marine General who made a statement about a certain lifestyle is 'immoral.'  Her husband put the don't ask don't tell policy into effect and now she says its wrong and should be repealed.  Make up your mind sweetie.

What I can say is that she has fought for many benefits for career firefighters and the fire service and her husband did the same.  President Clinton established the Fire Act Grants and did good lobbying for the heart bill.  Democrats are also known in recent years to be more pro-labor then repubilicans after President Reagan trumped a union strike of air traffic controllers in the early 80's.  Its just about every other view of her and most of her party I do not agree with and the fact she had to come here to run for senate and no matter what ever happens, the entire state of NY cannot trump NYC's democrat heavy voters.

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ALS, i hear what your saying, and your on the money. In 2000 she committed to six years w/o a problem. Now, at least i felt, she was asking to get elected only to use her senate seat as a vehicle to throw her into the national spotlight and jumpstart her presidential bid. But, she’s a politician - what can you expect.

But, you’re definitely correct - both her and her husband have great reputations amogst Firefighters and Police Officers. On top of what ALS mentioned, Clinton also had the 1994 Mega Crime Bill passed which beefed up policing across the country and also instituted the assault weapons ban (which has since expired).

Unfortunately, im a student of political science (boy do i regret that...) and its somewhat interesting to see her shift away from the liberal democrats towards a more centrist view...and back...and then center...and back. Like her husband, i see her playing to the polls. Playing to the pools might get you elected and keep your approval high, but its a dangerous game of Russian roulette. Having written a few case studies on Clinton's presidency its evident that some of the biggest failures of his administration - ones that i would argue have direct correlation to 9/11 - were due to playing to the polls.

I have a feeling you’ll see a Clinton - Obama ticket sooner rather than latter.

[Remember585 815]

Unless youre a member of the IAFF this shouldnt really bother you.

Me personally, when I read that I almost threw up in my mouth!

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It's like I said, whatever any organization chooses to do is their choice, I just hate how they hold everyone up on a pedestal when it benefits them, but when they've had their fill of what they need from the people their story changes.

I like that "threw up in your mouth comment..."

[firecapt32 282]

She is a complicated woman but she does back the firefighters and the fire service, in that there is no doubt. I believe she has done a good job for New Yorkers.

when you decide on who you vote for, you have to pick a stance that your canidate is for, what ever makes you want to vote for them.

they all have faults--you have to decide for your self . the IAFF or NVFC only looks at one area.

Rudy is a three time divorced man cheated on both of his previous wives, actually flaunted hhis current wife in front of his pervious wife and children, Newt cheated on his wife while he was bringing up Bill for impeachment for doing the same thing.

every one knocks Hillary but like the song- she stood by her man -through all the termoil. voting is a precious thing lots of people have went to war and served so we have that right.

bash all you want just make sure you get out and vote.

[hudson144 150]

isn't she married to that guy from Arkansas?

[ajsbear 11]

When Bill was in the White House Hillary promised to reform "healthcare." It's been out of control since she fixed it? She didn't do anything. What has she done for NY? Whenever Chuck gives a speach she is right there. She waffles on all the previous decisions she has made.akes paper promises.

Rudy I guarantee knows the names of many of those who died on 9/11. McCain, not sure what he has done, Obama is still new to politics so he may not yet be ruined by the ways of DC. It's a long list but lets see who's the ones running in 08 after the feild thins out.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

firecapt...your scaring me.

And with getting over political as many of you who know me know I am...

Yes Newt did. Newt also wasn't being investigated for the things that occurred surrounding his affair. New also wasn't questioned under oath, which Mr. Clinton was and lied comitting perjury. You do that in court and see where it lands you.

I just have to at this point..nothing is shorter then a liberals memory.

Liberals cry about Bush's reserve status but argued that Billary's draft dodging should not be discussed when he ran for president.

Liberals say the military wasn't equipped properly, meanwhile Billary denied us additional US armored vehicles in Somolia against military command request and look what happened in the end. Our guys being drug through the streets. What is occuring in Iraq now with the insurgency is even stronger knowing we backed out of Somolia when things went a bit amok.

Protect firefighters and police officers...what president pardoned convicted terrorist that killed and wouned several NYPD officers from bombs?

[Guest]

I was never too impressed with Rudy. As far as his presidential bid, i think hes riding too much on the coat tails of 9/11. McCain is the type of guy i want in office - military service, usually bi-paritisan. He's guilty of "flip flopping" a bit himself, but overall hes one of the better candidates. I've still got alot of thinking and watching before i consider anyone for my vote.

[firecapt32 282]

Isnt it great we live in a country where we can agree to disagree, where we all can have a say in what goes on in our country.

ALS we will always be friends to the end I just lean a little more left then you do!!

[CAM502 6]

RUDY 2008!!!!! Clinton makes me sick....both of them!! ALS is right...you don't get impeached for bangin an intern...you get impeached for lying while under oath.

Edited March 19, 2007 by CAM502

[AFS1970 504]

The reason I didn't watch the webcast of the IAFF forum was that I knew, no matter who showed up, that this early in the race all they would do was say whatever they thought the organizers (in this case the union) wanted to hear. I'm not even sure why the Republicans bothered to show up, no matter whom votes for who on a personal level, no major union will even think about endorse a national Republican candidate.

As for Rudy? If he had made a decision about running for Senate in a timely manner, New York (and by extension, the rest of us) might not have had Hillary. By the time he finally said no, there was no time to run a campaign that could beat the Hillary machine. That is on top of his questionable morals, like sitting in the front pew at Saint Patrick's Cathedral with his girlfriend while he was married. I know he's not the only adulterous politician, but flaunting it in a church? Just wrong.

So far I am supporting Mitt Romney, but I haven't heard that mush from some of the other candidates. This race, because there are no incumbents, I think will be all about big names, and allot of candidates will get lost in the shuffle.

[ex-commish 490]

RUDY 2008!!!!!   Clinton makes me sick....both of them!!  ALS is right...you don't get impeached for bangin an intern...you get impeached for lying while under oath.

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I am republican yet I can not seem to support Mr. Guliani at this point. And it has nothing to do with his personal life ( ex-wife) as most politicians do have something in thier closet. What matters is how will they work for us. If you remember during the Billary ( ALS got me laughing on this one) impeachment hearings during a break a senator said that people have to realize that politicians were never supposed to be angels and where was it ever written that they had to be. Our govt is not perfect but i agree with Capt we can agree to disagree an we have those who are shedding blood in Iraq and elsewhere to thank for that.

[Guest]

RUDY 2008!!!!!   Clinton makes me sick....both of them!!  ALS is right...you don't get impeached for bangin an intern...you get impeached for lying while under oath.

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gross...you understand this guy tried to stop the searching for remains of firemen at ground zero right? what a hero

[bil14ga 1]

As an eight year member of the IAFF, I am very disappointed with the leadership of the union during the last 2 presidential election cycles. I always gave to the FirePac as I thought it was important to support it with my money. When the union supported John (JFK) Kerry, I stopped giving to FirePac as I began to see that what we preach as brother and sister firefighters did not matter to the leadership of the union. I will not give to FirePac again. To be brief, Kerry turned his back on men still in the war zone. This is something firefighters would never do.

Why does this matter when we are talking about Hillary? The union should look at the individual it supports and consider some questions… Would this person be a person that you would want in your chief’s office with all the gold on leading you and your fellow firefighters in the fire house? Would you want that person next to you searching the room or humping a line into the fire room? Most of all, would you want that person to sit next to you when something goes wrong? Will that person sell you out to save their own skin? When I ask these questions and put Hillary’s name in equation I always seem to answer “NO.”

So the question is, why do we as a union support such candidates?

[x152 179]

Wow, it is as if I have traveled back in time (summer of 2004) and was reading the "Fire Fighters for Bush" forums.........

"MY (underlined and emphasized) union is not doing what I (underlined and emphasized) should be done......"

I think Artie Lange would say....."wahh.....wahh.....wahh......"

The last time that I checked, the IAFF has not endorsed any candidate at this time.

From the bipartisan gathering of Presidential candidates in Washington last week, it appears that they (the IAFF) are attempting to try and be as diverse and democratic as possible. In speaking personally with the General President in January, he is VERY aware of the negative sentiment from those members that were opposed to the John Kerry endorsement in 2004. He is also very aware that there are more republican IAFF members than there are democratic members. Although many members believe there is a "rubber stamp" for democrats, it appears that the IAFF is moving in a new direction (different that the AFL-CIO as a whole) and open doors for republican candidates.

However, it is real hard for a LABOR union to endorse a candidate (ex: Sam Brownback) that has always maintained an anti-labor record.

Kind of like Red Sox fans voting for A-Rod as the MVP (although that is just a fantasy).

All too often, many of the true "union" members (when convenient for themselves) are quick to denounce an IAFF candidate because their background does not equate to their own personal beliefs.

"John Kerry in Vietnam......"

"this guy's record on abortion........"

"Candidate Jones is anti-gun......"

Does it have anything to do with the mission of the IAFF? (sure if you think the Union revolves around YOU). In reality, the IAFF works for ALL 280,000 of its members. If you are not happy with the IAFF position on a candidate then I suggest that you get involved in YOUR union.

Run for a Union office, attend a Legislative Conference of Biennial Convention, perhaps even run as President of your own local (truly an insane move). Sitting at a keyboard and venting because the democratically elected delegates of your Union are supporting candidates that you personally disagree with is far from productive.

It is interesting that this thread is about the ovation for Hillary (almost like as if reported by Fox News). I guess it would be "unfair" and "unbalanced" to mention that on the same day that Ms. Clinton spoke to the IAFF delegation, there were also 4 other democratic candidates and 5 REPUBLICAN presidential candidates that also received an "ovation" from the IAFF delegates.

I guess that bit of history was omitted from this tread in order to achieve a certain "taste"?

PS - the author of this post is an UNAFFILIATED (aka as an independent) voter.

Edited March 19, 2007 by x152

[helicopper 1,050]

Politicians are just that - politicians! They will say anything to anyone to sway their vote and most have no allegiance to us - only to the almighty dollar.

Hillary is telling the IAFF what they want to hear because she's collecting $$$$ at the event or is hoping to get the endorsement of the IAFF or both.

Next week she'll be in non-union country telling all the non-union folks gathered that the unions are the problem and pledging to fight them at every turn.

You can't go by what a politician SAYS; you can only go by how they VOTE! How did Hillary or any of the others vote on issues that matter to you? Is it how they told you they'd vote when they were courting you for your vote?

Ignore the BS speeches, find out how they voted and hold them accountable if it is different than what you were told.

Just my $.02.

[Guest]

It is interesting that this thread is about the ovation for Hillary (almost like as if reported by Fox News). I guess it would be "unfair" and "unbalanced" to mention that on the same day that Ms. Clinton spoke to the IAFF delegation, there were also 4 other democratic candidates and 5 REPUBLICAN presidential candidates that also received an "ovation" from the IAFF delegates.

I guess that bit of history was omitted from this tread in order to achieve a certain "taste"?

PS - the author of this post is an UNAFFILIATED (aka as an independent) voter.

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no, this thread was started by a link to the website...

[bil14ga 1]

Does it have anything to do with the mission of the IAFF? (sure if you think the Union revolves around YOU). In reality, the IAFF works for ALL 280,000 of its members. If you are not happy with the IAFF position on a candidate then I suggest that you get involved in YOUR union.

Run for a Union office, attend a Legislative Conference of Biennial Convention, perhaps even run as President of your own local (truly an insane move). Sitting at a keyboard and venting because the democratically elected delegates of your Union are supporting candidates that you personally disagree with is far from productive.

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For your information, I have been President of my local, Secretary for my local, attended numerous district meetings at the state level, and lead negotiations for two contracts. I sat at a state convention a few years back and listened to the IAFF General President tell us all that the union was going to try to support candidates that more reflected the values of the membership as a whole. Soon thereafter the IAFF was supporting Kerry right out of the gates.

While I agree the IAFF took a step forward by inviting all of the candidates, my fear is that the IAFF will again support a candidate that does not reflect my values. I also seem to find that most of my fellow IAFF members that I speak to, both inside and outside my local tend to have similar (not to be confused with identical) values as myself.

I will admit that I am a registered Republican, but I am not afraid to vote outside the party line. I have done so in the past, and will most likely do so in the future. The candidate that the IAFF supports should be the right candidate for our country at this point and time in our history to get my support, and hence my vote.

[RESCUERABBITS 0]

Article you might be interested in.................................

Clinton_goes_for_top_rung_of_firefighters___ladder___Los_Angeles_Times.htm

[Guest]

For your information, I have been President of my local, Secretary for my local, attended numerous district meetings at the state level, and lead negotiations for two contracts.  I sat at a state convention a few years back and listened to the IAFF General President tell us all that the union was going to try to support candidates that more reflected the values of the membership as a whole.  Soon thereafter the IAFF was supporting Kerry right out of the gates. 

While I agree the IAFF took a step forward by inviting all of the candidates, my fear is that the IAFF will again support a candidate that does not reflect my values.  I also seem to find that most of my fellow IAFF members that I speak to, both inside and outside my local tend to have similar (not to be confused with identical) values as myself. 

I will admit that I am a registered Republican, but I am not afraid to vote outside the party line.  I have done so in the past, and will most likely do so in the future.  The candidate that the IAFF supports should be the right candidate for our country at this point and time in our history to get my support, and hence my vote.

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Very, VERY, well stated. You've hit the nail on the head - "candidate for our country at this point and time in our history..." Thats what the bottom line is and thats whats going to make a difference in the long run!

[Guest]

maybe its time to vote with your brain not the sticker on your car

[PC_420 28]

Who we need is a statesman, a man that has style and substance when he speaks to us! We need Senator Fred Thompson!

[bil14ga 1]

maybe its time to vote with your brain not the sticker on your car

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Agreed!!!!!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Many of you have hit what I am thinking. I never can find that one "perfect" candidate. Never will, I just go with the person I feel will best fit as many of my ideologies and concepts as I can.

The only way I'd probably ever find someone that would fit my thoughts, is if I could run. And that's the problem, a normal person could never run. I also am not afraid to admit I'm a Repubilican, in fact I was a member of the young republicans in school. But I consider myself a common sense republican which some would call me "moderate." I vote with my head and my heart, not a sticker, not a "party."

I believe in very few things:

1. I am not a "true republican" to many in my party because I am pro choice. I'm not pro abortion and that is difficult, I just think its safer for women for it to be legal.

2. I believe that I shouldn't have to be totally tolerable and sensitive to everyone. And if you fu(k with the USA...I beleive we have the right to shove it right back up your a$$ without other parties and countries beating on us. If you don't like it...don't ship your products here and we will stop dealing with you and see how your economy does.

3. I believe there is a fair way to deal with immigration issues and that a wall should be built. However, finding a way to deal with all 3-5 million of them will not be easy, but they are human and my ancestors came here from Scotland, I'm sure for a better chunk of life. That is all they want to and I respect that and I respect them for being human and having civil rights. As far as work goes, there is no such thing as an "illegal" they are patients and customers period.

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Worth looking at.......................................some interesting videos including that of our Senator Hillary Clinton

www.iaff.org

click on

2008 Presidential Forum