POV As An Officers Vehicle?

[Guest]

I'm just curious how many departments allow their officers to use their personally owned vehicles as response vehicles? (Equipping with lights and sirens, etc)

Does the department provide the lights? What type of liability does the department assume, and how does this affect your car insurance?

[Guest bibbles10504]

Interesting topic... Velocity, can you consider adding making your POV a state certified fly car for medics and EMTs or even having your POV as any kind of certified vehicle for lights and sirens?

I am curious about those as well

Thanks

bibbles

[trauma74 111]

My EMS Agency allows the Captain and the two Lieutenants to use red lights and sirens when responding to the scene of any call we are dispatched to. Because we are a NYS Certified EMS Agency and we have to follow NYS Department of Health Policies, our POVs have to be certified as EASVs (emergency ambulance service vehicles) also commonly known as fly cars. This means that our POVs must have all the same equipment that is required to be in a fly car owned by an EMS agency.

As far as who pays for the lights, sirens, radios and medical equipment.....The VAC owns three 8 outlet Whelen strobe power supplies. Each of us gets the power supply and the strobe bulbs. We have to purchase our own sirens, siren speakers and any additional red lights such as ones for the dash, rear window, grill etc. The mobile radios are supplied by the VAC. The VAC pays for the installation of all of the equipment that they own as well as the additional equipment we have to purhcase ourselves. In my vehicle they also purchased a Havis console to house my scanner, my VHF and my Low Band Radio (VAC does not use low band, but I have it for inter-ops with the FD).

All medical equipment that we are required to carry is supplied by the VAC. We each have a trauma/airway bag, c-collar bag, O2 bag, Phillips AED, KED, yellow disposable blankets, flares, fire extinguisher and some other misc equipment.

We also have to have lettering on our vehicles as per NYS DOH. All three of us have magnetic signs that we put on our vehicles when we are responding to calls.

Insurance coverage is as follows......If we are in an accident, our own insurance covers everything and the VACs insurance company picks up our deductible.

[sr71 1]

At My Department we have no chiefs vehicles. The three chiefs and the captain of the marine division have "red light permits", these permits enable them to put red/white lights and a siren in there cars, and thay respond in them. i think that they buy the lights on there own. as for insurance, i dont know anything about that, but i hope this info helps.

[INIT915 1,119]

We also have to have lettering on our vehicles as per NYS DOH. All three of us have magnetic signs that we put on our vehicles when we are responding to calls.

Insurance coverage is as follows......If we are in an accident, our own insurance covers everything and the VACs insurance company picks up our deductible.

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If your agency truly uses the magnetic placards, you’re in the minority.

Just out of curiosity, do you have documentation from your insurance carrier? I only ask, because, as most people have probably encountered, any excuse for your Insurance not to cover a claim, they will jump on.

[STAT213 332]

If your agency truly uses the magnetic placards, you’re in the minority.

Just out of curiosity, do you have documentation from your insurance carrier? I only ask, because, as most people have probably encountered, any excuse for your Insurance not to cover a claim, they will jump on.

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I would be really careful relying on your insurance company. I had a friend who filed a claim for a stolen green light, and when they found out he was running lights on his car, they dumped him.

Just make good and sure before you rely on someone else's word about your insurance company.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Most people have listed the equipment that the agency will provide to you for making it an emergency vehicle. The thing you should really be pushing them for instead of lights and siren is to cover the insurance. Because just as stated above. ANY reason that the insurance industry can think of for NOT paying out yoiur claim, they will do.

Trauma74; That is an EXTREAMLY large list of equipment you are required to carry to get the Emergcney response Vehicle status. Do you write that whole thing off on your taxes? because I would make every effort. I think you could show it's pretty much exclusive for EMS use.

Hatzolah has members with all kinds of vehicles registered as an "ambulance" running around. I woudln't try to be the first test case of being non-Hotzolah and register it as an ambulance. But apparetly you can do it somehow.

[ex-commish 490]

I'm just curious how many departments allow their officers to use their personally owned vehicles as response vehicles? (Equipping with lights and sirens, etc)

Does the department provide the lights? What type of liability does the department assume, and how does this affect your car insurance?

←

We respond to the firehouse. Only officers who do not are the chiefs and they are issued dept vehicles.

I do not think an insurance company would like the idea of responding in your pov with lights and sirens.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Our department allows officers to use POVs to respond to scene. Anyone above the rank of 2nd Lieutenant gets an in-car radio. Assistant Chiefs, EMS Assistant Chief, and OEM Director get lightbars and sirens. Other than that its just a normal civilian car...

[hawkbase 21]

You should definitely check with insurance carrier. When I used my POV as a paramedic/supervisors car I was required to carry additional insuranc and an umbrella policy for $5 million. This was not too expensive about $150/year. My Insurance carrier had told me under no circumstances would they cover my car when red lights / siren were being used without meeting these criteria.

Ned.

[Guest]

There are A LOT of departments upstate that do not issue chiefs vehicles as they do not have the money. They pay the chiefs to outfit their personal vehicles.

Radio; Lights; Siren

[nycemt728 49]

Hatzolah has members with all kinds of vehicles registered as an "ambulance" running around. I woudln't try to be the first test case of being non-Hotzolah and register it as an ambulance. But apparetly you can do it somehow.

←

Hatzolah technically registers their vehciles as EASVs as well. That is the only way in NYS that a POV can legally get away with having sirens or red lights. Now, do i think all those vehicles have the entire list of equipement?

( like immobilization boards, fire estinguishers and flares and the like) I truly doubt they all do. I live and work in NYC and quite honestly as much as I would LOVE to do this to my car, just based on the ambivalance on this forum regarding insurance its not worth it, nor is it necessary in a builit up urban area where the average response time is reasonable.

[Guest bibbles10504]

Just out of curiousity.... can anyone just register their POV as an emergency vehicle? What would they register it as?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Our department 's four assistant chiefs' POV's area equipped with red / white lights and sirens and are covered under our insurance policy as such when responding to alarms with the waring devices activated. CT law allows this.

[Guest]

Just out of curiousity.... can anyone just register their POV as an emergency vehicle? What would they register it as?

←

You may need to be affiliated with an EMS agency, but im not 100% positive on it. Either way, don't bother turning your POV into a battle wagon out fitted with NYS DOH certified stickers unless your a line officer that needs to. Point in case, dont do it. Your putting yourself into a very sticky legal situation given that your advertising yourself as 1) having some medical certification 2) a medically equipped vehicle - now you have a duty to act on every emergency situation you run into.

As far as what it takes to get the certification, you need to meet the same minimum as an ambulance, which is NYS DOH Part 800. Part 800 outlines the minimum equipment that must be on an ambulance/fly-car for it to operate as an emergency vehicle. You can check the state DOH website for the exact breakdown, piece by piece.

[Guest]

There are A LOT of departments upstate that do not issue chiefs vehicles as they do not have the money.  They pay the chiefs to outfit their personal vehicles.

Radio; Lights; Siren

←

What about maintenance, repairs, fuel/gas and all that? It that personal or does the town cover it?

[OoO 24]

800.26 EMERGENCY AMBULANCE SERVICE VEHICLE EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS

The governing authority of any ambulance service, which, as a part of its response system, utilizes emergency ambulance service vehicles, other than an ambulance to bring personnel and equipment to the scene, must have policies in effect for equipment, staffing, individual authorization, dispatch and response criteria and appropriate surface.

(a) A waiver of the equipment for emergency ambulance service vehicles may be considered when the service provides an acceptable plan to the Department demonstrating how appropriate staff, equipment and vehicles will respond to a call for emergency medical assistance. The Regional EMS Councils will be solicited for comment.

( Any emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be equipped and supplied with emergency care equipment consisting of:

  1. 12 sterile 4"x4" gauze pads;

  2. adhesive tape, three rolls assorted sizes;

  3. six rolls conforming gauge bandage, assorted sizes;

  4. two universal dressings, minimum 10 inches x 30 inches;

  5. six 5"x9" (minimum size) sterile dressings or equivalent;

  6. one pair of bandage shears;

  7. six triangular bandages;

  8. sterile normal saline in plastic container (1/2 litre minimum) within the manufacturer's expiration date;

  9. one air occlusive dressing;

  10. one liquid glucose or equivalent;

  11. disposable sterile burn sheet;

  12. sterile [O.B.] kit;

  13. blood pressure sphygmomanometers cuff in adult and pediatric sizes and stethoscope;

  14. three rigid extrication collars capable of limiting movement of the cervical spine. These collars shall include small, medium and large adult sizes; and

  15. carrying case for essential equipment and supplies.

© Oxygen and resuscitation equipment consisting of:

  1. portable oxygen with a minimum 350 liter capacity with pressure gauge regulator and flow meter medical "D" size or larger. The oxygen cylinder must contain a minimum of 1000 PSI pressure;

  2. manually operated self-refilling bag valve mask ventilation devices in pediatric and adult sizes with a system capable of operating with oxygen enrichment and clear adult, and clear pediatric-size masks with air cushion;

  3. four oropharyngeal airways in a range of sizes child through adult individually wrapped or boxed;

  4. two each: disposable non-rebreather oxygen masks, and disposable nasal cannula individually wrapped;

  5. portable suction equipment capable, according to the manufacturer's specifications, of producing a vacuum of over 300 m.m. Hg when the suction tube isclamped and including two plastic Yankauer wide bore pharyngeal suction tips, individually wrapped; and

  6. pen light or flashlight.

(d) A two-way voice communications enabling direct communication with the agency dispatcher and the responding ambulance vehicle on frequencies other than citizens band.

(e) Safety equipment consisting of:

  1. six flares or three U.S. Department of Transportation approved reflective road triangles;

  2. one battery lantern in operable condition; and

  3. one Underwriters' Laboratory rated five pound ABC fire extinguisher or any extinguisher having a UL rating of 10BC.

(f) Extrication equipment consisting of:

  1. one short backboard or equivalent capable of immobilizing the cervical spine of a sitting patient. The backboard shall have at least two 2" x 9' long web straps with fasteners unless straps are affixed to the device; and

  2. one blanket.

Doesn't seem worth it to me

Edited March 30, 2007 by OoO

[OoO 24]

Actually there is a provision that allows you to seek exception for carrying certain equipment if you can show that it is unnecessary:

800.25 SPECIAL USE VEHICLES

A vehicle used exclusively for a special purpose, such as the transportation of neonates, may be authorized by the Commissioner, pursuant to a written application by the service, to not carry specific items of equipment otherwise required by these regulations if the equipment is shown to be unnecessary for the special use proposed.

[Guest bibbles10504]

Yea, Alpha1 the reason I ask was because from the posts it didnt seem to hard to get, and if someone tried hard enough could just put lights on their car just because they want to. I am not planning on doing that, and have no need to.

[Fireman488 57]

Firehouse.com Home > Magazine Archives > April 1999 Issue

Are You Insuring A Car Or An Emergency Vehicle?

MIKE WILBUR

Firehouse Magazine

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In the past three columns, we have been addressing apparatus insurance issues (see Emergency Vehicle Operations, January, February and March 1999). This month, we take a look at insurance as it relates to the operation of your private car as an emergency vehicle.

It is common practice in many states (New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, to name a few) for volunteer fire chiefs, fire marshals, fire coordinators, emergency medical technicians (EMTs) and arson investigators to install emergency lights and sirens on their personal vehicles. In other states (including Massachusetts, Michigan and Wisconsin) it is common practice for firefighters and EMTs to put emergency lights and sirens on their personal vehicles.

For example, Wisconsin vehicle and traffic law, under emergency vehicle definitions, includes the following:

"Privately owned motor vehicles being used by deputy state fire marshals or by personnel of a full-time or part-time fire department or by members of a volunteer fire department while enroute to a fire or on an emergency call pursuant to orders of their chief or other commanding officer.

There's More! Want to Read the Full Article? Subscribe Now to the Zone

[Guest]

Yea, Alpha1 the reason I ask was because from the posts it didnt seem to hard to get, and if someone tried hard enough could just put lights on their car just because they want to. I am not planning on doing that, and have no need to.

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I guess hard to get is relative The equipment isnt all that hard to obtain (im sure galls offers all of it individually), and there is alot of paperwork involved im sure. I just couldn't see the state allowing anyone ride around with NYS DOH stickers

Lights are a different story. You are not allowed, legally, to use anything but a blue/green light as designated by the state unless your a line officer. As far as Part 800 - 99.999999999% of flycars and Ambulances are going to follow the standard. The exception is really a non issue here, because specialty transportation is not going to be done via the volunteer ambulance. Your going to call in either a private company or the hospital, if they provide it.

Edited March 30, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[INIT915 1,119]

Lights are a different story. You are not allowed, legally, to use anything but a blue/green light as designated by the state unless your a line officer. As far as Part 800 - 99.999999999% of flycars and Ambulances are going to follow the standard. The exception is really a non issue here, because specialty transportation is not going to be done via the volunteer ambulance. Your going to call in either a private company or the hospital, if they provide it.

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It's been a while since I read the DOH position paper on this, but it did not specify only line officer's could use RLS, it basically stated it was up to each individual agency to decide on their own.

Refer to: http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-01.htm

Also 800.25 doesn't specify a specialty transport unit, it just uses that as an example. If you have the 'political power', you can get the State to certify anything a 'Special Use Vehicle'. It doesn't get anymore vague and broad than that. It's an open ended loophole.

[paratrooper75 41]

My fire dept supplys chief cars to the three chiefs but all the past chiefs are allowed to have red lights/sirens on their personal cars.

[16fire5 693]

I guess I'm in the real minority since I turned down the mobile radio, and siren since I'm unwilling to drill any holes in my personal vehicle.