Kentland 33 Vs. PGFD Fire Chief

[ONLOCATION 24]

www.Kentland33.com................most recent story.....

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: KENTLAND VFD FILES SUIT AGAINST PRINCE GEORGES COUNTY

Monday, May 14, 2007- The Kentland Volunteer Fire Department of Kentland, Maryland and its Volunteer Chief, Michael Mattison, filed suit this afternoon in the Circut Court for Prince George’s County. The suit was filed after County Fire Chief Lawrence Sedgwick summarily suspended Chief Mattison and vowed to suspend all of his successors.

The County maintains that the Kentland VFD must agree to operate an ambulance out of its Landover Road Station 33. But the Kentland VFD lacks the facility space and the manpower to do so. In 1995, the County unilaterally withdrew Kentland VFD’s career staffing. Since that time, the station has provided round-the-clock service with a group of dedicated volunteers. Kentland VFD asked that the County provide both the space and staffing for the ambulance, but the County refused. Kentland VFD’s membership voted against operating the ambulance, which triggered the backlash from County Fire Chief Lawrence Sedgwick, who immediately suspended Kentland’s Fire Chief, Michael Mattison. Chief Sedgwick vowed to suspend each Kentland chief officer who refused to operate an ambulance out of Station 33, though the decision to do so is made not by the chief officers, but by the membership.

Kentland VFD already provides emergency medical services to Prince George’s County’s citizens by responding to emergencies with trained emergency medical technicians. But the Kentland VFD has explained to the County that it lacks the manpower to staff an ambulance, which essentially amounts to a hospital shuttle service. Such transports ofter take several hours due to paperwork and are currently handled by other area firehouses, which have full-time career staffing.

Sheila Mann, President of the Kentland VFD stated that "the corporation is dedicated to protecting the lives and property of the residents of Prince George’s County. Adding an ambulance to Station 33 without the additional career staff to operate it, and without the additional space in our facility, would put the excellent service currently provided by our department at risk." Cary Hansel, one of the attorneys representing the Kentland VFD, stated that "the department has a strong legal position and looks forward to presenting this case in court. However, as always, we would welcome any opportunity to discuss how to best serve the County’s citizens." Jason Levine, another attorney for the Kentland VFD, added that, "Kentland’s volunteers have been repeatedly recognized for their heroic acts. The County is simply trying to force them to provide a hospital shuttle service free of charge to the County."

Edited May 15, 2007 by ONLOCATION

[Guest]

Sad to see that EMS is referred to as a "hospital shuttle." I guess that makes me a babysitter. What a bunch of morons.

Edited May 15, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[Remember585 815]

They provide a BLS First-Response, right?

If the County wants an ambulance in that station, then provide the space, the personnel, the rig and the money to make it happen.

I bet there is something else going on here that isn't mentioned.

[ONLOCATION 24]

They Provide BLS First Responder service with Mini Pumper 33, there Medic's are Medic Buses down there If memory serves me right. Bladensburg (9) the Company next to them runs a Bus full time as well and all Volunteer. And from info told to me.....Volunteer Company Ambulance's charge, the County does aswell bought the Funds go back to the company directly not to the county.....Don't know if this would work out the same for them if is a County Owned Bus Operated by there Volunteers???

[NJMedic 96]

www.Kentland33.com................most recent story.....

But the Kentland VFD has explained to the County that it lacks the manpower to staff an ambulance, which essentially amounts to a hospital shuttle service.

←

And that attitude folks is the main reason why EMS is not taken seriously in many fire departments.

[Guest]

Hopefully the County reams them in court. I only wish they had a comments section on their news, i would give them a few cents.

Edited May 15, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[RWC130 594]

Remember585,

I bet there is something else going on here that isn't mentioned.

In answer to that comment. YES!!

I have a friend who is very active with Kentland FD.

More news to follow in days to come....

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If nothing else sketchy is going on from the part of Kentland, I say they're in the right. If a fire department doesn't want to provide EMS, they shouldn't be forced into doing it, County Chief or not. Their members will be running the ambulance, so if they don't want to do it, they shouldn't have to. Strong arming Kentland is not the way to go, the County Chief now just looks like a child having a temper tantrum.

[AFS1970 504]

I'm sure the company has the right to decide this, but I think it is strange that a station that prides itself on it's high volunteer manpower says they don't have the manpower to do this or that they need county career personnel to do it. I am sure that at least in part the county's desire for an ambulance in Kentland is due to the areas call volume and response times, but unless they are the only non ambulance station in the county, I doubt they can force one on them. I also seem to remember that Kentland has another station, I think it is 46 and there is an ambulance there, and I think it is a career ambulance, which means they aren't opposed to the service entirely. This will be an interesting story to follow.

[Guest]

Hopefully the County reams them in court. I only wish they had a comments section on their news, i would give them a few cents.

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Hey no one should be forced to do something they do not want to. It's not like they do not provide any EMS service. They do respond with BLS/First Responder Service as "ONLOCATION" stated.

They are good no great at what they do. For somewhere around 7000 runs a year as a volunteer department what more can you ask?

Give them a break!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

No the problem isn't the attitude...the problem is the "leadership" and often the "management." If you have good leadership all will buy into it. If you have good management and not ram it down people's throats and do it the right way you generally will not have problems. I've pretty much learned you can look at a department, how they operate, are managed and what behavioral attitude they subscribe to and tell how it will go.

Stop crying and make it work. I really don't understand how on certain ends of the fire service its always about how things can't work, want to reduce services and so on. Make it work and keep fighting for staffing.

[Guest]

Hey no one should be forced to do something they do not want to. It's not like they do not provide any EMS service.  They do respond with BLS/First Responder Service as "ONLOCATION" stated.

They are good no great at what they do.  For somewhere around 7000 runs a year as a volunteer department what more can you ask?

Give them a break!

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I agree. It is true that they pride themselves on their manpower, however, they need all they can get just to handle fire related calls. Its not as if they are running automatic alarms and pick-me-ups all day long. These guys are staffing their trucks and responding all over the county to fires and rescues, real work. I don't know about any of you but there are few things worse than having a "light" crew when going to a fire. I wouldn't want to loose half of my day crew to shoe runs all day long. Just imagine, 7k of fire calls.......Now imagine what the EMS call volume must be, double that, atleast.

[Guest]

I think the facts are being twisted a little and read wrong. No one is insulting EMS by calling it a bus ride to the hospital, or whatever. Who knows? Maybe they have a cronic problem of people calling the ambulance just to get that free ride and they don't really need it. Come on, everyone know's that happens and in some places more than others.

Hey, they do a lot of work there. If they don't want to staff a bus, too bad. If they have legitimate concerns about staffing then that's that. Let them continue to do the job they've been doing a good job doing. If the county needs an ambulance there, then let them pay and staff it.

[Guest]

"Kentland VFD already provides emergency medical services to Prince George’s County’s citizens by responding to emergencies with trained emergency medical technicians. But the Kentland VFD has explained to the County that it lacks the manpower to staff an ambulance, which essentially amounts to a hospital shuttle service. Such transports ofter take several hours due to paperwork and are currently handled by other area firehouses, which have full-time career staffing."

However, as always, we would welcome any opportunity to discuss how to best serve the County’s citizens." Jason Levine, another attorney for the Kentland VFD, added that, "Kentland’s volunteers have been repeatedly recognized for their heroic acts. The County is simply trying to force them to provide a hospital shuttle service free of charge to the County."

Maybe some of you should re-read.

No one is insulting EMS? Give me a break! I pride myself in my training and my job. I don't provide a "shuttle" to the hospital, i provide safe transport,competent, compassionate and highly trained medical care to all of my patients regardless of their condition or the frequency in which they request the service.

I don't care who they are or how much work they do. They do not have ANY right, nor does anyone, to shrug EMS off as a "shuttle" bus. Any attempt to defend their ignorant categorizations is not only upsetting but equally as ill-informed and should be ashamed of themselves.

Makes me sick.

Edited May 15, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[Guest]

Maybe some of you should re-read.

No one is insulting EMS? Give me a break! I pride myself in my training and my job. I don't provide a "shuttle" to the hospital, i provide safe transport,competent, compassionate and highly trained medical care to all of my patients regardless of their condition or the frequency in which they request the service.

I don't care who they are or how much work they do. They do not have ANY right, nor does anyone, to shrug EMS off as a "shuttle" bus. Any attempt to defend their ignorant  categorizations is not only upsetting but equally as ill-informed and should be ashamed of themselves.

Makes me sick.

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Actually, Its their right and privelage to say whatever they desire according to "freedom of Speech." I dont think you should be calling anybody ignorant, nor saying they should be ashamed. This is a discussion board where people in the emergency services come to gain a better understanding of one another and learn from eachother. If you want to gripe, go to myspace, this article wasn't a personal attack at you or your career. It is an issue between a volunteer fire department that is part of a greater combination department(PGFD). They will work it out, I'm sure.

"Win together, work together" DO IT FOR SETH

[Guest]

Actually, Its their right and privelage to say whatever they desire according to "freedom of Speech."  I dont think you should be calling anybody ignorant, nor saying they should be ashamed.  This is a discussion board where people in the emergency services come to gain a better understanding of one another and learn from eachother.  If you want to gripe, go to myspace, this article wasn't a personal attack at you or your career.  It is an issue between a volunteer fire department that is part of a greater combination department(PGFD).  They will work it out, I'm sure.

"Win together, work together" DO IT FOR SETH

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Department issue that illustrates a national problem, thats what you've obviously missed.

EMS is not a shuttle service, thats a fact. Those who don't or refuse to recognize/embrace/understand that are in fact ignorant.

The second someone takes a shot at the volunteer system i'd bet a paycheck you'd be up in arms with everyone else. I guess i'm not afforded the same privilege by the constitution?

Edited May 15, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[mfc2257 464]

Two big issues here (this is from my experience both as someone who as run in PG county in the past, and someone who still has good friends down there)

1: This problem exists because the people of Prince Georges County have long abused the EMS system and it truly has become as much of a taxi service as it is a competant, safe, and effective system for providing medical care and transport for those in need. People who don't have cars or doctors (which many in PG county don't) simply call for an ambulance when they've got a fever and go to the hospital where they are required to be seen and then never pay the bill becuase they've got no cash or insurance. Meanwhile, the ambulance is OOS for an hour during this call while they are serving a BS response. Those who truly need EMS care are being screwed by the folks that abuse the system.

2: The fire chief for the county has long had an agenda to kill the volunteers off. He hates the strong vollie stations in the county because they aren't directly under his control. He wants everything to be 100% his way or the highway. SO he'll use an ambulance to try and break the backs of the vollies by telling them that if they don't take a county meat wagon and run it, that he'll pull county fuel, maintenance, and insurace from the vollie stations rigs and restrict them to only running calls in their first due even if they were willing to foot the bill for those costs on their own.

Make no mistake about it, the volunteer companies are their own Maryland corporations and cannot have an ambulance forced on them. On the other hand, the chief of the county department controls when and how they are dispacthed, and whether or not Station 33 will have the cost of fuel, maintenance, and insurance covered for the over 7000 calls for service that they respond to annually.

The guys at 33 have become ego maniacs over the past 5 years there is no mistake about that. BUT, they turn out a 2 man minipumper for EMS calls, two 4 or 5 man engines, one 4-5 man rescue engine (squad), and a 5-6 man truck with 100% volunteers 24 hours a day. There are times when they take the other engine from 46 or 37's station and staff a 4th 4-5 man engine when they've got the manpower to do it.

If the county chief was really looking out for the people, he'd put a career MICU in the area and leave the vollies alone. The alternative is to take one of those fully staffed pieces of fire apparatus off the road. The result will be an understaffed volly or career rig from another station running on a fire or rescue call, while the boys from 33 are waiting at the hospital for an hour with some kid with a cold.

I'm not sticking up just for 33 here, there are other great volunteer companies in the county that deserve support regardless if they have an ambulance or not. Some strong volunteer companies have career staff on for a portion or all of the day running the ambo or even operating volunteer owned apparatus. Generally the career staff and the vollies get along great. It's the career leadership at the top of the county level that is cancer to the department.

Edited May 15, 2007 by mfc2257

[IzzyEng4 427]

For me if PG County was smart, they should separate the EMS end of their operations from the fire department. There have been nothing but problems with the department as a whole on the EMS issue.

[Guest]

Department issue that illustrates a national problem, thats what you've obviously missed.

EMS is not a shuttle service, thats a fact. Those who don't or refuse to recognize/embrace/understand that are in fact ignorant.

The second someone takes a shot at  the volunteer system i'd bet a paycheck you'd be up in arms with everyone else. I guess i'm not afforded the same privilege by the constitution?

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I will give you that their lawyer was ignorant in making that statement, and all constitutional privelages should apply to you as well. But you shouldn't be calling any of us ignorant for understanding why Kentland doesn't want another bus to worry about getting out the door, they do in fact have one at station 46. The fact that they provide their services as first responders is commendable and sufficient. To agree with MFC2257, this Chief does have a personal agenda with the volunteers, and it could easily be argued that this whole scheme is a ploy for him to get his foot in the door to "babysit" and govern that house.

As for your reference to people taking shots at the volunteer system, i can deal with it because I don't take it personally, in most cases they are basing their opinion on the one vol house they have encountered and chances are, they are probably correct and that dept. may be a bunch of goofs. When its a personal attack it would be a different story. So hopefully your not a paramedic and that paycheck isn't to heavy, because I will gladly collect on that bet, my firehouse needs some new toys.

[Guest]

For me if PG County was smart, they should separate the EMS end of their operations from the fire department.  There have been nothing but problems with the department as a whole on the EMS issue.

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There is an idea brother!

[x635 4,066]

The county is trying to "force them" to provide better service to their citizens. Ridulous! They want to play by their rules, and their rules only, IMO. A lot of people from out of the area go there to ride, which gives them their staffing-these people don't want to do EMS.

It's all egos. I don't see why Kentland gets so much attention, and there is so much drama surrounding them- seems they like it. We put out fires, but if you're having a heart attack we don't care. I agree, a lot of their EMS runs are BS, like any urban EMS system, but why not just accept the ambulance until something can be worked out? It's TWO people, and the system down there is like the old west in some places.

This is just another example for me and others that EMS should be a third service with complete parity to FF's and Police Officers. The IAEP needs to become much, much stronger.

P.S. I rode/ride/observe/photograph with one of the TRUE busiest Engine companies in the nation- Los Angeles County Engine 33, in Palmdale/Lancaster- a career county department. They do over 5,000 calls a year- fire and EMS. Each run they are DISPATCHED to, and legitmately get their numbers- they don't have to buff runs, chase and beat first dues, and fluff numbers to be the "busiest engine". In fact, they don't even brag or complain about it.

[ONLOCATION 24]

PG County is a place like no other I have ever had the privilege to ride in, EMS is not being insulted here, they provide service to citizens and areas that are severely poverty stricken and yes.......a hospital hauler is a good way to also state an EMS run there. I also still believe that in many areas that EMS still is the most overlooked service going, I myself get deathly afraid when continually hearing 2nd and 3rd requests for Possible heart attacks and s*** like that.......But in the issue here.....I would rather not see a Truck crew of 6 bumped to 4 for a Intox or an OD or an assault over narcotics and insne crap like that, also having to bump down to one crew instead of two crews do to these calls....I mean not that they are not important calls....just my outlook, Maybe I am just a Fire person and not really into EMS. I strongly believe myself if you do not have 24 hour in house volunteer staffing for EMS IT SHOULD BE PAID. (Not bad mouthing vollies, I am one). Separate issue though. The EMS personell that run the ambo's down there might also see this as a lake in job security also if u think about it?....and Due to these Multiple Bullshit calls hospital's are most of the time on what we would call a Diversion up here, don't know if its the same down there.

While riding down there, I was on a rig dispatched to a MVA, pulling up it was noticed as a 3 car chain reaction tap, no real damage except for one vehicle. Originally they were all RMA's except for one, then it turned into 4 complaints of everything, in which then truned into a 3 ambulance and an EMS Duty Officer response and a Bus requested from Hyattisville which isn't right next door. Was there really a need, I don't think so, just a case of common day possible money making. Having a Wagon onlocation for over an hour for a fender bender?.....is bad enough now picture the ambulance being OOS for over 2 hours do to the fact that the closest Hospital was on diversion and the next one was 20-30 mins. away......... there just went ur Truck crew.

Issues in this county are ongoing...MFC2257 pretty much said it all with the county Chief Volunteer cancer comment......Yes Kentland has turned into egotistic guys but its all in the marketing....there website, there actions make them who they are, not they don't know what there doing but there media spotlights and abilities.

Edited May 15, 2007 by ONLOCATION

[Guest]

I will give you that their lawyer was ignorant in making that statement, and all constitutional privelages should apply to you as well.  But you shouldn't be calling any of us ignorant for understanding why Kentland doesn't want another bus to worry about getting out the door, they do in fact have one at station 46.  The fact that they provide their services as first responders is commendable and sufficient.  To agree with MFC2257, this Chief does have a personal agenda with the volunteers, and it could  easily be argued that this whole scheme is a ploy for him to get his foot in the door to "babysit" and govern that house. 

As for your reference to people taking shots at the volunteer system, i can deal with it because I don't take it personally, in most cases they are basing their opinion on the one vol house they have encountered and chances are, they are probably correct and that dept. may be a bunch of goofs.  When its a personal attack it would be a different story.  So hopefully your not a paramedic and that paycheck isn't to heavy, because I will gladly collect on that bet, my firehouse needs some new toys.

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Maybe you missed something in my previous posts, so ill AGAIN highlight it. As x635 already pointed out, they are a bunch of arrogant, ego feeding whackers. If they need an ambulance or not is not my concern.

The problem i have is their very PUBLIC and very IGNORANT categorization of EMS as a "shuttle" bus service.

I really don't see how anyone, especially those who parecipate on emergency scenes, could defend that.

[Guest]

Actually, Its their right and privelage to say whatever they desire according to "freedom of Speech."  I dont think you should be calling anybody ignorant, nor saying they should be ashamed.  This is a discussion board where people in the emergency services come to gain a better understanding of one another and learn from eachother.  If you want to gripe, go to myspace, this article wasn't a personal attack at you or your career.  It is an issue between a volunteer fire department that is part of a greater combination department(PGFD).  They will work it out, I'm sure.

"Win together, work together" DO IT FOR SETH

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[RWC130 594]

ALSFIREFIGHTER,

No the problem isn't the attitude...the problem is the "leadership" and often the "management." If you have good leadership all will buy into it. If you have good management and not ram it down people's throats and do it the right way you generally will not have problems. I've pretty much learned you can look at a department, how they operate, are managed and what behavioral attitude they subscribe to and tell how it will go.

Stop crying and make it work. I really don't understand how on certain ends of the fire service its always about how things can't work, want to reduce services and so on. Make it work and keep fighting for staffing.

OK, Before you go blasting away know the FACTS, which I do.

Know what is REALLY going on down at Kentland FD which I do.

DON'T Monday Morning Quarterback... It has NOTHING to do with

"Leadership" or "Management".

The TRUTH will come out very soon as to what is going on.

My friend at Kentland FD asked me to keep this quiet and I am

respecting his wishes.

[Guest]

can someone tell me why anyone cares...they don't want to run an ambulance...so what?

[LED138 10]

Maybe you missed something in my previous posts, so ill AGAIN highlight it.  As x635 already pointed out, they are a bunch of arrogant, ego feeding whackers. If they need an ambulance or not is not my concern.

The problem i have is their very PUBLIC and very IGNORANT categorization of EMS as a "shuttle" bus service.

I really don't see how anyone, especially those who parecipate on emergency scenes,  could defend that.

←

I rarely chime in on topics posted here, but let me climb aboard the bandwagon here...this is my feeling and there is no need to rebutt.......

66Alpha1, We have seen(many times) that you are upset about people calling EMS a "shuttle bus" or "taxi service". You even went on as to ask about the constitution, but what happened to the rights of others opinions? So what if they call it that. Judging by the info that has been spread here as well as EMS statitics is does seem that PG does a majority of (PC term) NON-Emergency TRANSPORTS aka shuttles. The article did not bash EMS, it never went anywhere near that topic. It was mainly pointing out the BS that exists between a career Dept. head and the lowly and yes, insanley large Egos of the 33. That being said, should they have a bus there, Not if it hampers their primary function. OK, done, theres my .02.

PS. Doe anyone know what happened with the Departmental charges brought against 33 last year? The incident at the fire scene where they "allegedly" turned off air bottles and wrestled with other FF's?

[Guest]

It's one thing to harbor a personal opinion but its a WHOLE different ball game to publicly promote, on the agency and legal level, a false categorization.

What if an EMS agency shrugged off the work of firefighters as something less than challenging?

The majority of EMS transports from a scene to a hospital are non-emergent. Whats your point? Does that make it a shuttle service?

[mfc2257 464]

Wow... people are missing a ton here because they are getting their feelings hurt and/or not listening to the facts.... If you've got no experience running in PG county OR a county run FD with career and vollie staffing you should step back. There are prominant posters on this page who are making strong comments about agencies they don't have a clue about. Lets review here before anyone's panties get bunched and they need an ambulance to transport them for a crotchectimy:

1: The boys at 33 have wicked egos that are getting annoying AND/BUT they are good at what they do.

2: 33 does provide EMS in the form of an EMT staffed MiniPumper to EMS calls in thier first due. If the MiniPumper is unavailable the Engine responds.

3: THE BOYS AT 33 AREN'T REFUSING AN AMBULANCE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PROVIDE EMS.... ITS BECAUSE THE COUNTY CHIEF IS FORCING IT DUE TO THE HISTORICAL FACT THAT AMBULANCES ARE A GREAT WAY TO WEAR OUT THE VOLUNTEERS IN AN IMPOVERISHED COMMUNITY THAT USES THEM AS A SHUTTLE TO GET TO THE HOSPITAL FOR ROUTINE MEDICAL CARE THAT THE REST OF US WOULD MAKE AN APPOINTMENT AT THE DOCTOR FOR.

4: Read #3 and make sure that you can understand that logic is not the principal that can be applied here. The county chief has an agenda to eliminate the volunteers. THIS IS NOT THE WISHES OF THE CAREER FIRE STAFF IN PG COUNTY JUST THE LEADERSHIP.

5: The proper solution to this issue isn't a BLS unit in 33's station as there are plenty of BLS units running into 33's first due now. A MICU (medic ambulance) IS NEEDED IN 33's FIRST DUE, STAFFED BY CAREER PERSONNEL TO HANDLE THE ALS NEEDS THAT AREN'T BEING MET CURRENTLY AND CANNOT BE MET BY BLS VOLUNTEERS AT 33. I'll repeat incase you missed it, the need is for a career staffed ALS unit which the volunteers cannot provide. There needs to be a career staffed ALS unit that in this first due will be busy enough that it won't need a station to run out of.... It'll always be on the move.

6: There are lots of people on this web site that aren't willing to stand up and tell the ego filled leadership in Westchester County that's afraid to change the way that that emergency services are handled but that are willing to criticize other agencies out of state. When you've got the balls to stand up to the ego's in your own department, then start moving on to others.

7: Go back and read my previous post about other tools that the county chief is using against the volunteers as leverage.

8: Put yourself in these guys shoes... You've got volunteers that are successfully running in the Washington DC metro area comparable to the NYC metro areas of Mount Vernon, Yonkers, New Rochelle, and White Plains. Just last week, PG County Truck 9 (Bladensburg) staffed with 100% volunteers was transferred to a DCFD station for standby. 33 transfers into the district as well.... 2nd busiest engine or not (I'll agree the total response numbers are BS and their claim of 2nd busiest engine in the country include the responses for engines 331, 332, 333 and possibly the minipumper), this station still answers 7000 calls for service annually.... And they are 100% volunteer. They also serve what is historically the toughest working fire district in America. So Seth may be buddies with some folks with LA E33, but I'd like to see the comparable # of working fires that are being run before judgement is past.

9: As I've said before, I'm not anti career or pro vollie (although I'm a 15 year vet of the vollie service).... What I am is ANTI BULL SH!T.... Don't talk smack about something you know nothing about or something you've never experienced.

Edited May 16, 2007 by mfc2257

[Guest]

So, they pride themselves in 7,000 calls, allot being fire, (or whatever) but don't want an ambulance because of burnout?

I just re-read over the press release or whatever you want to call it, and i don't see anything about an ALS ambulance. If this is in fact the case, why wouldn't the department say "look, we cant be expected to go to school for 2 years and volunteer paramedic services 24/7/365"? I mean, thats a more honest argument if you ask me.

Edited May 16, 2007 by 66Alpha1