Message for 'BNN 485'

[Truck4 48]

Once again, you copied a fake post from EMTBravo Incident Alerts and sent it out over the Breaking News Network paging service.

The 'BNN' service, which just began to place a copyright tag to the bottom of every incident page, is very sensitive to having thier work reproduced by other paging services and make it known on a daily basis.

As a contributor to this service, you 485, are obviously too lazy to listen to a scanner yourself and feel that it's acceptable to rip-off another service. A service that struggles to remain a free-to-user service, while 'BNN' charges a monthly fee.

So once again, I'm glad I can do all the work for you. Now you can exlain to your paying customers why there is no homicide on Warburton Ave in Yonkers. I'm sure a few news agencies are pretty upset with you right now.

Truck4

[RWC130 594]

Truck 4,

You got me too!

What's up with this guy BNN485?

NOT COOL!

[helicopper 1,050]

They fall for it EVERY time!!!!

[Guest]

a very nice emtbravo sting operation!

[Truck4 48]

I was also just told that BNN sent out a page stating that there is no homicide and "The tip submitted to BNN was a hoax."

A "hoax?"

Nice try.

I know of 2 local news agencies that believed there was a homicide based on thier BNN service. I guess you get what you pay for.

[helicopper 1,050]

I was also just told that BNN sent out a page stating that there is no homicide and "The tip submitted to BNN was a hoax."

A "hoax?"

Nice try.

I know of 2 local news agencies that believed there was a homicide based on thier BNN service. I guess you get what you pay for.

Hoax? Not quite! Instead of a copyright perhaps they should caution their "readers" that information may be completely unverified as it is pirated from this and other websites.

CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

[ems-buff 81]

EMTBravo- 1 Breaking News Network- 0

As it should be!!!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last time that they have been caught using our members IAs for their commercial "Incident Alert Network"

Is there anything that can be done to stop them?

[WAS967 97]

Probably not, but the public ridicule and humiliation is at least entertaining enough to not want to stop them.

[unleashedff248 3]

I'm not sure if this is one in the same, but 1st responder paged out a message yesterday (07/17) morning at 11:34am:

Yonkers - Fatal Shooting warburton ave. cross of Portland Terrace

Male found in alley with GSW to the head DOA.

Is this the same fake IA?

[Truck4 48]

I'm not sure if this is one in the same, but 1st responder paged out a message yesterday (07/17) morning at 11:34am:

Yonkers - Fatal Shooting warburton ave. cross of Portland Terrace

Male found in alley with GSW to the head DOA.

Is this the same fake IA?

Yes it is. There is no Portland Terrace.

[RescueKujo 130]

Dohhh! As was said, you get what you pay for....

[RocklandFires 44]

Now I am not defending BNN, but I have been a reporter for them for over 10 years, and worked in the BNN office for many years until April 2007, and to be honest with you, the pager news business is extremely cutthroat ! You obviously want to get all the "Breaking News" stories that you possibly can, especially before your competitor. There are more & more ways to get valuable information via the internet without ever listening to a radio, and forums is just one of them. When I worked in the office I had my own favorites folder that I would browse through all day checking for newsworthy incidents. One prime example is the Lancaster County CAD. It's impossible to hear Lancaster County from the BNN office in Fort Lee, so you relied on the internet to assist you. The key word is "Assist You". Now I am just speaking of me - BNN25, but if I saw an Incident Alert on this forum for a shooting in Yonkers and we didn't have the job, I would immediately turn on Yonkers PD/Empress EMS to try and get some info. If that didn't work, I would get on the phone and call the PD and ask them about it.

I can understand some of your frustration, but to post B.S. Incident Alerts on the forum just to see if BNN or any other paging services will copy the info is ridiculous if you ask me. Have any of the moderators of this forum thought about approaching BNN about becoming a reporter or to work out a deal for exchanging information ? Just a thought.

[x635 4,066]

Have any of the moderators of this forum thought about approaching BNN about becoming a reporter or to work out a deal for exchanging information ? Just a thought.

They've been asked repeatedly for years now not to lift our information word-for-word. They've gone behind our backs and used OUR private messaging system to try and entice members to dispatch for them, with the promise of a free pager. However, they continue to disregard our requests. It's one thing to use IA's for a heads up, but a whole 'nother thing for them to completly lift information about incidents using our forums.

The issue here is intergrity. This forum is provided free of charge, and all staff here works for free and works hard to gather their own, ORIGINAL firsthand information. BNN charges for their service, and I assume it's enough of a business to make a profit. To exploit our forums to get information for free, that they can then turn around and sell to their customers, is insulting, especially after we've asked them several times not to. If they expect people to respect their information, then they should respect ours especially since they send out a copyright notice on their pagers.

We have no interest in forming a partnership whatsoever, we have discussed that with them and all they had to offer us was a "free pager". They also refuse to discuss any details in email, only by phone. We have no intent on selling out our members to a for profit service, especially one that's disrespected us time and time again.

[Guest WCDES636]

We as a group should bombard them with emails. in the Subject line just put Incident Update.

[Truck4 48]

No Brian, ridiculous is sitting in an office, on the clock and going to a free website and ripping off info word for word. Maybe we should send your company a bill for our services.

[helicopper 1,050]

Gotta disagree with you here! What BNN does is not "reporting" or "journalism". They merely save news outlets the hassle of trying to monitor multiple scanners or other sources while still expeditously getting the information. "Reporting" is what a lot of BNN customers do.

Defending them for plagiarism and/or copyright infringement is absurd. They copyright their messages to avoid the exact same thing EMTBravo is trying to prevent or at least reduce. If they want to (as you indicate you did) use the IA as a source that's one thing. But to copy word for word the work of another person is simply inappropriate no matter how it being reproduced/retransmitted.

Grabbing an IA, after being specifically asked not to, and retransmitting it verbatim is the issue here though, not the value or usefulness of BNN. The proper focus of our attention should be our own member aka BNN485 and any others who are using this site as the sole source of their info.

[Future Fireman 4]

We as a group should bombard them with emails. in the Subject line just put Incident Update.

GENIUS!!!!!!!

Mike

[Guest]

Shouldn't they at least credit EMTBravo as the source??? To take information and pass it as their own is just shady. To continue to do so after being asked not to is just unethical.

However, we should maybe think about putting a copyright notice in the footer of each IA, or making it members only? Obviously, they are aware of us not wanting them to retransmit information found on here, and ignore it, so I don't know if that will do any good.

I don't think bombarding them with emails is the mature route to take. I don't think that would accomplish anything. It seems to me that they could care less.

Edited July 19, 2008 by SouthFire

[Guest]

Be careful, people may post fake incident alerts here now.

TWO WORDS: FACT CHECK!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

If you are having a problem with people taking EMTBravo's copywritten information then contact a corporate lawyer, they will tell you what you can and can not do. If in fact EMTBravo has a copywrite on its information/boards then you can do more than just sit around and wish they did not do it again.

[DonMoose 3]

...but to post B.S. Incident Alerts on the forum just to see if BNN or any other paging services will copy the info is ridiculous if you ask me...

I'm in agreement with you on that. Seems very immature/unprofessional to post fake IA's just so someone could copy it and use it on BNN. (before the flaming/nonsense that happens when someone disagrees this is not an attack on who posted the fake IA, more so that it was allowed.)

Edited July 19, 2008 by DonMoose

[JBE 328]

I'm in agreement with you on that. Seems very immature/unprofessional to post fake IA's just so someone could copy it and use it on BNN. (before the flaming/nonsense that happens when someone disagrees this is not an attack on who posted the fake IA, more so that it was allowed.)

It was used to prove a point. These folks have been ripping off this site, and others, for God knows how long. I've had my issues with BNN in the past. This is a rather common problem. People ripping info off of sites and posting it as their own. Posting incorrect information.

I can give an example: The 4th alarm the other night on Newbold Avenue, It was posted on a number of sites that 27 Truck was assigned on the box. 27 Truck doesn't go over that way till at least the 3rd Alarm. It's 47 Truck. Yet, people ran with it like it was gospel.

Buff at your own risk and have your facts straight before you type.

[DonMoose 3]

It was used to prove a point. These folks have been ripping off this site, and others, for God knows how long. I've had my issues with BNN in the past. This is a rather common problem. People ripping info off of sites and posting it as their own. Posting incorrect information.

I can give an example: The 4th alarm the other night on Newbold Avenue, It was posted on a number of sites that 27 Truck was assigned on the box. 27 Truck doesn't go over that way till at least the 3rd Alarm. It's 47 Truck. Yet, people ran with it like it was gospel.

Buff at your own risk and have your facts straight before you type.

Understandable yes, but still IMHO I feel it to be unprofessional. So they're taking IA's from here, big deal. Imitation is the best form of Flattery.

[DOC22 1]

Understandable yes, but still IMHO I feel it to be unprofessional. So they're taking IA's from here, big deal. Imitation is the best form of Flattery.

I believe it was done as a "sting" operation, and they got caught. Plain and simple. Unprofessional? No more than any other sting operation, and they're done all over for a number of offenses, not just copyright. NO NOT unprofessional, in the least!

[x635 4,066]

Understandable yes, but still IMHO I feel it to be unprofessional. So they're taking IA's from here, big deal. Imitation is the best form of Flattery.

I'm struggling each month to keep this site alive financially. The members get paid nothing for posting IA's.

BNN rips off the free information posted on this site and SELLS it to their customers. We don't see a dime. All they've ever offered us was a "free pager".

After several incidents with them, including them using OUR private message system to advertise their service and recruit our members behind our backs, we don't have any interest in letting them advertise on this site.

[SteveOFD 176]

If they are copying the IA word for word, then change the form for the IA, and insert the following phrase between the "Units Operating:" and "Frequency:" "Information provided FREE at EMTBravo.com"

Edited July 19, 2008 by SteveOFD

[jack10562 414]

There are multiple notices throughout the website describing the EMTBravo policy regarding the acceptable use of EMTBravo content.

ALL material contained on the EMTBravo sites is the property of EMTBravo.

This Site and all the materials available on the Site are the property of us, and are protected by copyright, trademark, and other intellectual property laws. The Site is provided solely for your personal noncommercial use. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, translate, sell, create derivative works, exploit, or distribute in any manner or medium (including by email or other electronic means) any material from the Site.

© 2008 EMTBravo All rights reserved.

[res6cue 67]

I can't believe anyone would actually defend BNN in this matter, although I guess there is some obvious bias in this case. How many times have they now been duped by this site? It has to be a handful at least, right? I've seen guys copy IA's between boards word for word, and I don't really like that. (I'm not talking about a member's original post, obviously anyone is free to post their own alerts on as many boards as they wish...I'm talking about guys copying OTHER people's IA's word for word) However, at least in those cases that is information going from one not-for-profit message board to another, in a way we're all one big community with a lot of cross-members anyway. This crap with BNN is a different situation entirely, as these guys are MAKING MONEY off their service. Unfortunately, some of the "dispatchers" BNN has are literally kids...some younger than 15 years old! With that in mind, does anyone really expect the quality of the service to be top-notch, or for their to be much integrity to the info-gathering process? I suspect many of these dispatchers just want to be the guy who always gets the scoop before anyone else, to hell with accuracy or facts!

[xfirefighter484x 234]

If they are copying the IA word for word, then change the form for the IA, and insert the following phrase between the "Units Operating:" and "Frequency:" "Information provided FREE at EMTBravo.com"

But with such information added into our IAs, they still have the capability to edit it before they send out the information. This said, once (if) they catch on to it, they can still readily copy and re-distribute.

As Seth has said, they only have offered "free pagers" for lifting the postings here. Nothing to offer ad space, or monetary donations to support the site they lift it from. It would only seem fair, them earning their $$ off of something YOU may have posted, no?? If you took the time to sit back and document an incident for at least 1 full hour (as many people here do), wouldn't you feel used that someone else made their paycheck that day from your hard work??