High Speed Pursuits

[bfxfd 8]

With High speed pursuits in the news recently I wanted to see what people thought? are they needed? Is the danger worth it?

[JJB531 652]

With High speed pursuits in the news recently I wanted to see what people thought? are they needed? Is the danger worth it?

Not a cut and dry question to answer. As in all branches of emergency services, whether it be police, fire, or EMS, we are always evaluating risk vs. benefit. The "validity" of a high speed pursuit by law enforcement depends on a number of variables.

First, why are we chasing this individual. Perpetrators who have committed violent offenses should be pursued. IMHO the risk of having a violent individual on the street is greater then the risk of pursuing this individual to bring them into custody. Perpetrators who have committed violent offenses against a law enforcement officer should be pursued to the next galaxy if need be. Personally, if a perpetrator commits a violent offense against a LEO, there is absolutely no reason why that individual should not be pursued. Should law enforcement engage in a high speed pursuit for an individual who stole a pack of gum from the local bodega... probably not. Sometimes LEO's don't know why someone is running from them. You go to stop a vehicle for a simple traffic infraction and next thing you know the vehicle takes off. Could be that the driver just butchered his/her whole family, or something as simple as the driver just doesn't have a license.

You have to weigh environmental and geographical factors. Are road conditions poor because or rain or snow? Are we pursuing individuals through school zones or residential neighborhoods in the middle of the day where there is a higher likelihood of a non-participant being injured by a fleeing perpetrator? Or are we pursing someone in the middle of the night on an empty highway where the likelihood of a non-participant being injured in considerably less?

How aggressive is the indivual being pursued. Are they driving with such recklessness that they are placing non-participants at a significanly increased risk of injury? Or are they maintaining a reasonable speed and not blatantly disobeying traffic control devices?

Do we know the ID of the person being pursued? If we do, and the offense we're chasing them for is a non-violent offense, might be more feasible to terminate the pursuit and pick them up at a later time at their residence, place of employment, etc.

Personally, I'm all for pursing violators, no matter how petty the offense, as long as there is no blatent danger to the public based on some of the factors I mentioned. Someone who has no problem fleeing law enforcement to evade arrest is more then enough reason for me to pursue a vehicle. It always amazes me though, for example after reading the thread about the Phillies fan who was tasered, that the individual who started the thread felt the police used excessive force in deploying the taser. When, as a society, are we going to start placing the blame where it belongs? Not on the police officer who engaged in a pursuit or deployed a device such as the taser to apprehend a criminal who was knowingly fleeing law enforcement, but on the individual who committed a crime and then chose to recklessly flee law enforcement to evade capture? Why is it my fault if some moron decides to run from me, crashes, and kills himself? I didn't tell him to run. I didn't make him to run. I'm sorry, but if you want to take that chance and run from the police, you deserve everything you have coming to you, and if you kill yourself in the process... oh well, that's on you.

Edited May 5, 2010 by JJB531

[x1243 141]

Check this out; http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100505/NEWS01/5050328/Cops--Man-led-car--foot--swim-chase-in-2-towns

3 misdemeanors. + 28 traffic tickets + $500.00 cash bail = PRICELESS.

[64FFMJK 21]

Check this out; http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100505/NEWS01/5050328/Cops--Man-led-car--foot--swim-chase-in-2-towns

3 misdemeanors. + 28 traffic tickets + $500.00 cash bail = PRICELESS.

actually $500.00 bail is a slap in the face to any person that lives in the Hudson Valley this guy was trying to flee from the police and all it will take for him to walk out of jail is a mere $500.00 Lets wake up and realize that half the reason we are in a financial crisis is the criminals leaching off of honest people. Make it so crime does not pay. Fine criminals so they don't laugh about their fines since that's all that most criminals think about their fines, that and compare NYS prisons to summer camp :angry: .

[gamewell45 258]

actually $500.00 bail is a slap in the face to any person that lives in the Hudson Valley this guy was trying to flee from the police and all it will take for him to walk out of jail is a mere $500.00 Lets wake up and realize that half the reason we are in a financial crisis is the criminals leaching off of honest people. Make it so crime does not pay. Fine criminals so they don't laugh about their fines since that's all that most criminals think about their fines, that and compare NYS prisons to summer camp .

I'm not sure if there were other factors in the judges decision, but it was probably cheaper to let him out on low bail then incurring the cost of incarceration, which can add up significantly over time.

[JetPhoto 626]

I monitored a pursuit last night that I believe PCSO was involved with and the perp struck the officers vehicle then fled into Danbury where the perp was lost and may have struck vehicles there. It sounded like a failure to comply.

So why was he fleeing?

Scared?

Stolen Vehicle?

No License?

on drugs / alcohol?

stole something?

assaulted / shot/ killed someone?

or just mentally ill?

You don't know.

[helicopper 1,050]

actually $500.00 bail is a slap in the face to any person that lives in the Hudson Valley this guy was trying to flee from the police and all it will take for him to walk out of jail is a mere $500.00 Lets wake up and realize that half the reason we are in a financial crisis is the criminals leaching off of honest people. Make it so crime does not pay. Fine criminals so they don't laugh about their fines since that's all that most criminals think about their fines, that and compare NYS prisons to summer camp :angry: .

Bail is not punitive and not a reflection on the police or anyone who lives in the Hudson Valley. Don't confuse bail with fines/penalties; they are apples and oranges.

[JetPhoto 626]

Speaking of pursuits... one just ended in Chester (Orange Cnty) with the vehicle rolling over and ejecting one person and pinning another. bad price to pay for being chased

[64FFMJK 21]

Bail is not punitive and not a reflection on the police or anyone who lives in the Hudson Valley. Don't confuse bail with fines/penalties; they are apples and oranges.

I agree bail is not punitive. Bail is designed to keep people that are a danger to the community off the streets so they can not harm anyone until their trial. So again some one who is willing to lead the police on a pursuit endangering the lives of the police and any citizens in the are is a danger to the community and I feel that my children's lives are worth a hell of a lot more then $500!

[20y2 43]

I agree bail is not punitive. Bail is designed to keep people that are a danger to the community off the streets so they can not harm anyone until their trial. So again some one who is willing to lead the police on a pursuit endangering the lives of the police and any citizens in the are is a danger to the community and I feel that my children's lives are worth a hell of a lot more then $500!

Bail is to ensure the return of a defendant to court, it is NOT designed to keep people that are a danger to the community off the streets.

[helicopper 1,050]

Speaking of pursuits... one just ended in Chester (Orange Cnty) with the vehicle rolling over and ejecting one person and pinning another. bad price to pay for being chased

It's a high price to pay for fleeing the police not for being chased. Had they stopped for the initial officer they may have received a ticket, or if they were guilty of something else faced charges for that. Fleeing put them and the officers at risk but it was THEIR conscious decision and they should be held accountable for their actions.

[Guest stever]

My question is in a pursuit why do they chase with 8 police cars? Why not just 2......

Edited May 7, 2010 by Chris192
corrected from "text speak" to English

[JJB531 652]

My ? is in a pursuit y do they chase with 8 police car y not just 2......

Is that a serious question? Why do you send multiple engines, a ladder truck, and chiefs car to an AFA? I would assume because there is the potential for a fire and you want to have adequate personnel and equipment to handle the worst case scenario, which totally makes sense. Its no different in a pursuit. If the pursuit turns into a foot pursuit or worse, a gun battle, you want adequate resources to deal with the threat.

Edited May 6, 2010 by JJB531

[20y2 43]

My ? is in a pursuit y do they chase with 8 police car y not just 2......

Some departments have a '2 or 3 car involved in a pursuit' policy but if you have more than 2 or 3 jurisdictions involved it gets complicated. A chase that starts in Yonkers and ends up in, lets say Harrison will have Yonkers POs not knowing where they are going.

[x129K 1,393]

Speaking of pursuits... one just ended in Chester (Orange Cnty) with the vehicle rolling over and ejecting one person and pinning another. bad price to pay for being chased

The wording makes it seem like it was the PO's fault that these bags of turds were hurt...

NO...it was THEIR decision to try and outrun the cops...it was thier decision to not pull over after they took off....it was their decision to put themselves AND the PO's in harm's way...

Look at it this way - would you not want a cop to do anything he could to disarm a perp with a gun, knife, or other weapon?

In these cases - the perp is USING THE CAR AS A WEAPON....I say GET HIM BOYS!!!!!

Also - keep in mind that the term "high speed pursuit" is not exactly correct - the majority of the pursuits I have worked (on radio of course) have been fairly low speed..

And personally I think it's a damn shame PO's arent allowed (in most departments) to chase idiots on crotch rockets....those bastards know the cops won;t chase them and act even stupider...on second thought, maybe they shouldn't chase them....they should just shoot.