Lighting on Emergency Vehicles

[FFEMT150 214]

Figured I would make a new thread for the discussion of lighting on rigs. Seems that the thread for the new CFFD chiefs car was hyjacked so lets discuss it here as to not offend the origional poster. Hoping this will also make the mods job easier...

So here we go...

At what point do we say "enough is enough"? Personally feel that some hide-a-ways and a couple rear flashers will do the job. Also think that a light bar and set of grill lights works just fine. Call me old fashoned but i'm not a fan of a mobile landing zone.

Any thoughts?

[MoFire390 118]

cause ur truck doesnt fall into this catagory???

[FFEMT150 214]

cause ur truck doesnt fall into this catagory???

Nope... Only have 4 tail light strobes and an arrow stick that i dont really use... Far from that catagory!

[FFEMT150 214]

CFFD's car was damaged?

Really??? any idea what happened? Hope no one was hurt!

[FFEMT150 214]

I guess you meant something else for hijacked. Disregard lets not start a rumor.

LOL. Yeah, the thread not the rig. You had me scratching my head for a min and checking lohud!

[MoFire390 118]

Nope... Only have 4 tail light strobes and an arrow stick that i dont really use... Far from that catagory!

what kind of family member would i be if i didnt bust ur chops???

anyway saw the truck the other night @ south salem parade. for the amount of 684 that croton falls covers the lighting is suitable. makes the truck stand out and grab the drivers attention to whats going on.

Edited July 16, 2011 by MoFire390

[FFEMT150 214]

what kind of family member would i be if i didnt bust ur chops???

anyway saw the truck the other night @ south salem parade. for the amount of 684 that croton falls covers the lighting is suitable. makes the truck stand out and grab the drivers attention to whats going on.

I personally think it is over the top. The amount of I 84 and TSP EFFD covers is much larger than CFFD's section of 684 and they dont have anything like that. The arguement that they "cover the interstate" is not one I am willing to accept. The NYSP cover the ENTIRE new youk section of EVERY interstate and dont go that crazy. I don't want to nor will I bash any one or any department, I just think that in general some go beyond reasonable when specing out light packages. I'm just saying...

Edited July 16, 2011 by FFEMT150

[MoFire390 118]

reguardless of what we all think the department did what they saw fit to make the incident scene safe for not only the IC but for the members of the department operating as well. i was on 684 and 84 today driving back to the station i work out of, and i can honestly say people are CRAZY! me doing 70 was getting passed as if i was standing still. not to mention being cut off several times and being flipped off for "driving to slow" i can now see where the departments thought process was on this vehicle.

[FFEMT150 214]

reguardless of what we all think the department did what they saw fit to make the incident scene safe for not only the IC but for the members of the department operating as well. i was on 684 and 84 today driving back to the station i work out of, and i can honestly say people are CRAZY! me doing 70 was getting passed as if i was standing still. not to mention being cut off several times and being flipped off for "driving to slow" i can now see where the departments thought process was on this vehicle.

As I had said, I am not looking to single out one department. I am looking for the opinion of others or studies related to the effective emergency lighting on a vehicle. I have also worked jobs along the interstates and know how they can be, especially when you are the only one there! This is not the arguement I am making, I am asking when too many lights becomes "way too many". Good points though Ken.

[firegui 24]

Not to be rude but why should you or anyone else care what CFFD did with thier chiefs car. I am sure it works for them. If you don't agree don't spec yours as they did thiers.

[cffd50 0]

Not to be rude but why should you or anyone else care what CFFD did with thier chiefs car. I am sure it works for them. If you don't agree don't spec yours as they did thiers.

well said sir. i was thinking the same thing this whole time

[FFEMT150 214]

I am not refering to CFFD in this matter they have just been the origional example. I am speaking of ALL vehicles. The origional intent of the thread was to draw the conversation away from the photo thread as to not upset the photographer. I have no problem with the amount of lights any agency puts on a rig, just as I said, trying to draw the fire elsewhere.

[gamewell45 258]

Figured I would make a new thread for the discussion of lighting on rigs. Seems that the thread for the new CFFD chiefs car was hyjacked so lets discuss it here as to not offend the origional poster. Hoping this will also make the mods job easier...

So here we go...

At what point do we say "enough is enough"? Personally feel that some hide-a-ways and a couple rear flashers will do the job. Also think that a light bar and set of grill lights works just fine. Call me old fashoned but i'm not a fan of a mobile landing zone.

Any thoughts?

I think that a signal-stat flashing lollipop in the grill should suffice; that combined with the vehicles factory supplied four-way flashers would cover your rear.

Guess I'm old fashioned as well.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I was driving behind the new CFFD Chiefs car on my way to the South Salem parade this past Wednesday. I think the truck looks great. CFFD speced the rig out the way they did because they feel it necessary. The lights wont hurt anything so...

Nice rig CFFD. Best of luck with it.

[skme318 7]

I'm not so sure I entirely agree with the sentiment that more lights can't really hurt anything.

Perhaps it is because I work exclusively at night time or perhaps simply because I have had this happen to me several times over the past month or so, but I find that excessive lighting (emergency lighting, that is) can make it very difficult to see. Especially in the instance of some of the very fast LED flash patterns that seem to have become very popular, going from using relative night vision while driving to a scene to, all of a sudden, having to cope with extremely bright flashing lights can be very difficult--so much as to potentially make initially assessing a scene nearly impossible. I actually had an experience recently where, upon arriving at a call, was literally blinded by several flashing LED lightbars to the extent that my partner and I actually entered the driveway next to the one of our patient's (they were directly next to each other) because we simply could not see.

While I feel LED's are fantastic for the daytime where traditional warning lights are very easy for people to not notice, I'm still not convinced that they are the best option outright. Perhaps more old-fashioned options or a combination of them with some LED's is worth considering?

[ny10570 745]

skme is spot on. A few weeks ago coming down the taconic at night in the rain I came upon a trooper that had pulled a car over or was blocking for a disabled vehicle in the left lane. Between being nearly blinded by the blue lights, the rain, and the unexpected left side parking spot mid curve I very nearly rode right into the back of the trooper because I had absolutely no idea where the road was. I couldn't see the road markings, guardrail, or anything past the trooper to help me gain my bearings. By the time I figured out what the was going on rather than giving the trooper my usual wide berth it looked more like I was trying to take a mirror off. Too many lights ARE DANGEROUS!

I have no idea if CFFD's lighting package is too bright, I haven't seen it. However the idea that more lights is more gooder needs to stop.

Edited July 17, 2011 by ny10570

[FFEMT150 214]

Thanks for the input guys, This is the conversation I was hoping for. One small request, Please don't use CFFD as an example, I do not wish to upset any of their members. Thanks.

[x129K 1,393]

Bright lights, paeticularly LED create a halo at night around the vehicle..anyone standing in that halo are in immediate danger of not being seen and possibly getting struck, no matter how many reflective vests or chevron decals they have on their gear!

WE NEED TO STOP SPEC'ING, ORDERING, AND BUYING STUFF JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO HAVE THE BEST IN OUR AREA (or self percieved best)!

Times are tough for all of us, taxpayers especially - we need to respect them (which by the way, is US!) and manage our (their) money more wisely. Streamline the apparatus...skip the useless chrome bell and fancy paint jobs...simplify...

[MoFire390 118]

Bright lights, paeticularly LED create a halo at night around the vehicle..anyone standing in that halo are in immediate danger of not being seen and possibly getting struck, no matter how many reflective vests or chevron decals they have on their gear!

WE NEED TO STOP SPEC'ING, ORDERING, AND BUYING STUFF JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO HAVE THE BEST IN OUR AREA (or self percieved best)!

Times are tough for all of us, taxpayers especially - we need to respect them (which by the way, is US!) and manage our (their) money more wisely. Streamline the apparatus...skip the useless chrome bell and fancy paint jobs...simplify...

some of the chiefs trucks that i have seen have had a hi/low switch. which in turn dims the lights so commuters are not blinded and have that halo effect u are talking about. all it is is an extra switch that the operator should use at night time. but dont.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

what kind of family member would i be if i didnt bust ur chops???

anyway saw the truck the other night @ south salem parade. for the amount of 684 that croton falls covers the lighting is suitable. makes the truck stand out and grab the drivers attention to whats going on.

Is grabbing the attention of drivers what we actually want? Or do we want to warn them and get them to avoid the area safely. Ever here that you will walk or steer in the direction you are looking? Or how about how is the lighting going to effect other drivers vision on approach or passing the scene. I've been washed out and couldn't see anything in a light rain just from a LED strip in the rear window of a car not so long ago. You want good visibility? Sometimes more isn't the answer. Go with amber.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Is grabbing the attention of drivers what we actually want? Or do we want to warn them and get them to avoid the area safely. Ever here that you will walk or steer in the direction you are looking? Or how about how is the lighting going to effect other drivers vision on approach or passing the scene. I've been washed out and couldn't see anything in a light rain just from a LED strip in the rear window of a car not so long ago. You want good visibility? Sometimes more isn't the answer. Go with amber.

An amber arrow stick will do a lot more than any of the stuff that departments are putting on the backs of vehicles these days. Not only will motorists see it, it will actually guide them on which way to go. I work all nights and I can't tell you the number of times I've pulled up to a scene barely able to see thanks to the lights some of these agencies have.

[TCD0415 26]

An amber arrow stick will do a lot more than any of the stuff that departments are putting on the backs of vehicles these days. Not only will motorists see it, it will actually guide them on which way to go. I work all nights and I can't tell you the number of times I've pulled up to a scene barely able to see thanks to the lights some of these agencies have.

Personal Opinion: The way that the Arrow Sticks are used on emergency vehicles today makes them nothing more than just another flashing light with all the others. They get lost in the blur of all the other lights on the vehicle it is on and those around it. A good idea, but works better when it is isolated away from the other vehicles with minimal additional lighting turned on. You could always turn the rest of your lights off to make it more noticeable, but that probably isn't a good idea either. With the cost of these (over $1,000) I say put the $$ to good use with a decent (and not over the top) light package that will get the motorists attention and get them to slow down at which point they can determine how to proceed.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Personal Opinion: The way that the Arrow Sticks are used on emergency vehicles today makes them nothing more than just another flashing light with all the others. They get lost in the blur of all the other lights on the vehicle it is on and those around it. A good idea, but works better when it is isolated away from the other vehicles with minimal additional lighting turned on. You could always turn the rest of your lights off to make it more noticeable, but that probably isn't a good idea either. With the cost of these (over $1,000) I say put the $ to good use with a decent (and not over the top) light package that will get the motorists attention and get them to slow down at which point they can determine how to proceed.

You're correct chief. They aren't used effectively. I think they'd work best as the sole rear-facing emergency lighting. Also, they need to get rid of those "funkify" modes and teach the apparatus operator to use the arrow stick properly.

[lad45der 78]

Chief Car's, Police cars, And firetrucks are being lit up like Christmas tree's. Enough with the lights already I aggree with the rest of the guys. When do we call it a day with these lights?. I just came from Virginia Beach VA. The police cars there have 1 light bar, Maybe a hideaway in the brake light's that's it.

I work in a two piece house when we follow our Engine You cant see because the LED lights and the traffic stick are plain too brite. The LED's were powered down so they dont show as brite. They still blind you.

Im thinking when were operating on the highway that we cause the other side of the highway's traffic problems at night. Because you can see the accident for about 4 miles. There are apparatus with lights coming out of the woodwork in places I never thought possible, No wonder the apparatus is a electrical nightmare when the apparatus is 3 years old. (Except Stamford cause our stuff is the best...better than Pierce?? thats an actual quote)

Yes you have to abide by the NFPA Standard (INDUSTRY DRIVEN OF COURSE.. DONT KID YOURSELF)

Block the lane Boys and girls... Close the Street at the next Fire. Save the budget! Buy things like Rex tools and Eight Pound axes and 24 tooth chopper blades for your roof saw.