Scranton, PA. Mayor Chris Doherty Out of Control!

[SFRD372 43]

Scranton, Pennsylvania Mayor Chris Doherty released last night that effective July 1, 2012 ALL Police Officers, Firefighters, and Municipal workers will have their pay reduced to minimum wage of $7.25 per hour!!!! Is this man out of control???

[NJMedic 96]

I would quit on the spot. I would have more advancement possibilities at McDonalds.

[sfrd18 360]

For those of you who don't already know, since 2011, the Scranton Fire Department went from 7 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 150 FF's in 4 shifts down to 5 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 112 FF's in 3 shifts. The city closed 1 Fire Station(Engine 15) and 2 of the 5 Engines still in service are "browned out" daily.

Unbelievable.

[gamewell45 258]

For those of you who don't already know, since 2011, the Scranton Fire Department went from 7 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 150 FF's in 4 shifts down to 5 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 112 FF's in 3 shifts. The city closed 1 Fire Station(Engine 15) and 2 of the 5 Engines still in service are "browned out" daily.

Unbelievable.

There is precedence in Pa. for extreme cutbacks; in the early 80's when the steel industry was tanking in Pittsburgh, FD's experienced severe reductions in salaries and in some cases outright conversion from career to volunteer. Clairton stands out in my mind which was one of three departments to dispand and convert. It was very tough times for public safety then and now.

If the Scranton public service employees are union, unless the city declares bankruptcy and voids all contracts, I doubt the legality of cutting salaries (unless unions agreed to this of course).

[thebreeze 194]

It would be interesting to see how the anti-union people on this site feel about the unilateral actions taken by this mayor. I know if I worked as a public employee in Scranton right now I'd give an arm and a leg to be in a union.

[mfc2257 464]

Just curious, what is unbelievable?

(*)

[FireMedic049 597]

I would quit on the spot. I would have more advancement possibilities at McDonalds.

And you would be extremely stupid to do so! The Mayor has already stated that (at some point) everybody will go back to where they are now with repayment of all lost wages. Regardless, he has no legal standing to do this and I know for sure that the fire union is already getting ready for the fight.

[FireMedic049 597]

For those of you who don't already know, since 2011, the Scranton Fire Department went from 7 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 150 FF's in 4 shifts down to 5 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 112 FF's in 3 shifts. The city closed 1 Fire Station(Engine 15) and 2 of the 5 Engines still in service are "browned out" daily.

Unbelievable.

They've browned out more than just those 2 engines on some days.

[FireMedic049 597]

There is precedence in Pa. for extreme cutbacks; in the early 80's when the steel industry was tanking in Pittsburgh, FD's experienced severe reductions in salaries and in some cases outright conversion from career to volunteer. Clairton stands out in my mind which was one of three departments to dispand and convert. It was very tough times for public safety then and now.

Yes, the City of Clairton replaced their entire career staff with the exception of the Fire Chief with volunteers back then. They just recently eliminated the paid Fire Chief position, but they allowed him the opportunity to continue doing the job as a volunteer. He did.

The City of Duquesne did the same. I'm not sure who the third one is. My department which sits in between these two experienced severe reductions in the wake of the steel industry collapse. I'm pretty sure that it was all thru attrition though. We dropped down to the point where the entire department was smaller than what a shift used to be. We also lost 2 of our 4 stations. We're slowly climbing back out of the hole.

[sfrd18 360]

Just curious, what is unbelievable?

(*)

What the department has been reduced to as a result of cuts by the city. 2 companies have been closed in addition to daily brown outs, 38 FF's have been laid off, and pay has been reduced.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

What the department has been reduced to as a result of cuts by the city. 2 companies have been closed in addition to daily brown outs, 38 FF's have been laid off, and pay has been reduced.

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I think the point was that in these times no ridiculous "cost-cutting" method in public safety should be unbelieveable, since they're constantly happening right before our eyes. At least that's how I read it.

[grumpyff 1,159]

And you would be extremely stupid to do so! The Mayor has already stated that (at some point) everybody will go back to where they are now with repayment of all lost wages. Regardless, he has no legal standing to do this and I know for sure that the fire union is already getting ready for the fight.

Will he, and what legal document states this? right now those are just hollow words uttered by a politician to make people feel better. We in the civil service have heard this before from other politicians, and are still waiting to be rewarded/reimbursed for sacrifices made during tough financial times. Always the same cry "we just don't have the money"

[gamewell45 258]

And you would be extremely stupid to do so! The Mayor has already stated that (at some point) everybody will go back to where they are now with repayment of all lost wages. Regardless, he has no legal standing to do this and I know for sure that the fire union is already getting ready for the fight.

I think that action by the fire fighters union would be a very prudent move at this point. Just to let the politicians know that the union is fully aware of their actions and will do what they have to do to maintain the integrity of the labor agreement.

[FireMedic049 597]

Will he, and what legal document states this?

The collective bargaining agreements for all of the unionized workers.

right now those are just hollow words uttered by a politician to make people feel better. We in the civil service have heard this before from other politicians, and are still waiting to be rewarded/reimbursed for sacrifices made during tough financial times. Always the same cry "we just don't have the money"

Yes, these statements are nothing new and nothing to bet the farm on. That's why the guys in Local 60 will file a grievance over the unilateral reduction of wages and breach of contract and will get their due either thru the Mayor holding true to his word, thru negotiation with the City or via a binding arbitration award. The City will lose any court battle on this action.

[FireMedic049 597]

I think that action by the fire fighters union would be a very prudent move at this point. Just to let the politicians know that the union is fully aware of their actions and will do what they have to do to maintain the integrity of the labor agreement.

I know a few of their union leaders, they absolutely will take action on this.

[mfc2257 464]

Sage... Exactly what I was hinting at

(*)

Edited June 29, 2012 by mfc2257

[grumpyff 1,159]

The collective bargaining agreements for all of the unionized workers.

The mayor is already disregarding this, by instituting minimum wage pay, instead of the pay scales already negotiated, or asking the unions to reopen negotiations to find cost savings that will benefit the city, and not be so draconian to the workers. Not sure sure how many hours a week a firefighter or police officer works in Scranton, but using my schedule (NYPD) of 43.5 hours a week x $7.25 = $315.38. I made that in 1991 as a student summer employee at Pleasantville UFSD. That would not even cover my groceries and gas for my wife and to get to work on. Forget about the mortgage, gas and electric, etc.

[FireMedic049 597]

The mayor is already disregarding this, by instituting minimum wage pay, instead of the pay scales already negotiated, or asking the unions to reopen negotiations to find cost savings that will benefit the city, and not be so draconian to the workers.

You asked "Will he, and what legal document states this?" in regards to his statement that the workers will get their money at a later point.

Yes, he is disregarding the collective bargaining agreement. However, that is the document that will get them their money. They will file a grievance on the matter. It may even be an unfair labor practice. If the matter reaches arbtration, they will get their money because they will be able to clearly show that the City violated the CBA by unilaterally reducing their wages and the arbitrator will award them all of their lost wages and possibly with interest.

[INIT915 1,119]

You asked "Will he, and what legal document states this?" in regards to his statement that the workers will get their money at a later point.

Yes, he is disregarding the collective bargaining agreement. However, that is the document that will get them their money. They will file a grievance on the matter. It may even be an unfair labor practice. If the matter reaches arbtration, they will get their money because they will be able to clearly show that the City violated the CBA by unilaterally reducing their wages and the arbitrator will award them all of their lost wages and possibly with interest.

Do you have any links to applicable Pennsylvania Law on CBA's in that state for us? In New York, under the State Employment Labor Relations Act (See Sec. 704), I would argue this would not be an ULP. In general, how strong are Pennsylvania's labor laws? There are states where executives can get away with these kinds of unfair actions due to laws that favor them under "difficult economic periods."

[sfrd18 360]

Sage... Exactly what I was hinting at

(*)

Okay, now I see where you were going with that.

[FireMedic049 597]

Do you have any links to applicable Pennsylvania Law on CBA's in that state for us? In New York, under the State Employment Labor Relations Act (See Sec. 704), I would argue this would not be an ULP. In general, how strong are Pennsylvania's labor laws? There are states where executives can get away with these kinds of unfair actions due to laws that favor them under "difficult economic periods."

No, I don't readily have a link to that information. I don't know for sure if it is a ULP, that's why I used the word "maybe" when I mentioned the possiblity of a ULP.

[NJMedic 96]

And you would be extremely stupid to do so! The Mayor has already stated that (at some point) everybody will go back to where they are now with repayment of all lost wages. Regardless, he has no legal standing to do this and I know for sure that the fire union is already getting ready for the fight.

IF YOU BELIEVE THE MAYOR

[gamewell45 258]

IF YOU BELIEVE THE MAYOR

There's an old saying in the labor circles; never trust management.

The mayor, in his hamfisted attempt to save money has most likely seriously damaged years of respect and integrity in reference to contract bargainging. It wouldn't surprise me if the mistrust caused by this very poor decision by the mayor will have a negative impact on future contract talks down the road for the city. I wouldn't blame the union either; how can you trust someone who in the prior contract thew out all the negotiated agreements without re-opening the contract to seek changes without first sitting down for formal negotiations with the union leadership and a vote by the rank and file. Aside from whatever legal actions (ULP's) are filed, its unlikely that the trust between the parties, which probably took years to form will not be restored for a long time down the road.

I've read in this thread that fire union officials are planning to take action against the city; I think they have an excellent case based on what i've read in here; courts tend to view very dimly any entity that abrogates a labor contract with only a few exceptions. I wish all the union brothers and sisters in Scranton, all the best; you've got solidarity, you'll overcome this.

[FireMedic049 597]

IF YOU BELIEVE THE MAYOR

I don't, but I've already explained why quiting over this would be stupid. I guess you missed that.

[FireMedic049 597]

The mayor, in his hamfisted attempt to save money has most likely seriously damaged years of respect and integrity in reference to contract bargainging. It wouldn't surprise me if the mistrust caused by this very poor decision by the mayor will have a negative impact on future contract talks down the road for the city. I wouldn't blame the union either; how can you trust someone who in the prior contract thew out all the negotiated agreements without re-opening the contract to seek changes without first sitting down for formal negotiations with the union leadership and a vote by the rank and file. Aside from whatever legal actions (ULP's) are filed, its unlikely that the trust between the parties, which probably took years to form will not be restored for a long time down the road.

The respect and integrety ship sailed years ago. This is just the most recent skirmish.

[gamewell45 258]

The respect and integrety ship sailed years ago. This is just the most recent skirmish.

Ok, I wasn't aware of the prior relationship between the city and fire union.

[tommyguy 104]

Scranton's mayor is slashing the pay of almost 400 workers to the federal minimum wage as the northeastern Pennsylvania city faces a standoff over its financial situation....Doherty said Wednesday the cuts would be reflected in the July 6 paychecks.

Mayor Doherty is really swinging for the fences. He also just refused part of an $8 million federal grant that would've provided money to hire and train 20 new firefighters and ensure the 29 firefighters laid off last year can come back. He said the money would run out in two years and he "can't obligate the city" beyond that.

Below is a link which has video of the mayor and the vice-president of the firefighters union.

Labor lawyers agree, however, the Mayor's "plan" has virtually zero chance of holding up in court.

http://wnep.com/2012...rs-in-scranton/

[helicopper 1,050]

In the long run this will probably do more harm than good for the City and its employees. All the employees that can't pay their bills because the city unilaterally cut their pay will eventually have their homes foreclosed upon or be evicted. They won't be putting any more money into the economy shopping, spending, or otherwise surviving This will hurt small businesses and other revenue sources for the city so they're just making a bad situation worse.

The city didn't just "run out of money" overnight. A pattern of spending more than they collect obviously set this up and the vague assertion that they will "eventually" be paid for their lost wages is hardly reassuring when you have to make the monthly bills and put food on the table.

A truly horrible situation for all involved and for those focusing on the FD, this applies to all the other unions as well (police, teachers, sanitation, pubilc works, etc.).

[FireMedic049 597]

Mayor Doherty is really swinging for the fences. He also just refused part of an $8 million federal grant that would've provided money to hire and train 20 new firefighters and ensure the 29 firefighters laid off last year can come back. He said the money would run out in two years and he "can't obligate the city" beyond that.

What's so funny about this in an absolutely disgusting way is that there is no retention requirement at the end of the 2 year grant period. With the recent changes in the SAFER grant program, this means that the city has NO legal obligation to retain these 49 positions when the grant runs out. So, the city isn't actually obligated to anything beyond the grand period.

Additionally, it's pretty obvious that the Mayor has been willing to layoff workers already, so why not take the money now and layoff in 2 years if need be? My suspicion is that he doesn't want to take the money because he thinks taking it will prevent him from making more cuts in the FD.

[FireMedic049 597]

Update

http://wnep.com/2012/07/05/court-blocks-minimum-wage-for-city-employees/