Mount Vernon - 3rd Alarm 5/18/05

[GFD70 4]

Fire was on S. 10th Ave. X Bushnell Pl. near the Bronx border (near Mt. Saint Michael School). Fire was in a 3 story P/D; Top floor destroyed.

Units: MVFD, NRFD TL11, E23, GFD E151, Field Comm. Unit

[roeems87 0]

I know there are mutual aid plans in place and such, especially with Westchester/NYC not really interacting all that much, but doesn't it seem more practical that if the fire was practically at the Bronx border that some FDNY would be the mutual aid to the scene as opposed to pulling from as far north as Greenville?

[WAS967 97]

Sorry. That would make too much sense.

[Guest]

The answer is a simple as can be. FDNY has the same principles as does the Yonkers FD. They both feel that Mount Vernon FD sorely lacks proper/adequate fire suppression coverage for a city the size of Mount Vernon. Thus, only if a Major 4 alarm plus fire breaks out, would FDNY or Yonkers FD be willing to work and assist. Otherwise their (FDNY & YFD) feelings are that they refuse to be relocated to a Mount Vernon FD Station to sit and wait for another alarm to ring. Thus the reason why neither of these departments are called by 60 Control to assist. They simple will not come (again unless it is truly a Major Fire that requires their direct assistance)

[Steve 78]

Bucket, You are truly wrong about your statement. YFD or FDNY would not hesitate to respond to Mount Vernon when called upon. It is Mount Vernon's choice who they call in for Mutual Aid.

[roeems87 0]

Placing sore feelings aside, I am assuming it's not just up in the air who 60/MVFD calls for mutual aid--i.e. left at the descretion of the dispatcher or supervisor at the time. What is the standard? What is their protocol? Is FDNY left out of it? I know YFD is not, they are asked 9 times out of 10 to come over.

As for your comments, Bucket, I'm not so sure that is the case officially, though I have a few things to back up what you say and perhaps give it some background. Firstly, that time Pagano (albeit a stupid PR move) got on news12 and said that "my trucks will not respond to MV again, until things are changed," would be strong reason to suggest that when requested for mutual aid, Yonkers may be "already too busy." I do remember one instance, I believe it was the Christmas Eve fire in MV, but I could be wrong on the actual incident where Yonkers was requested from the second alarm (and following) and they denied until it reached the 4th alarm, then they sent the squad, a TL, and a battalion. It's possible they have a plan in place for when they will go and when they won't. I have been saying all along that this will change when a Yonkers FF is killed fighting a fire in Mt. Vernon, then things may change.

[firemn23 8]

I personally hate these MVFD discussions after every fire they have, but doesnt every municipality sign a mutual aid agreement that states something about if you want mutual aid you will not deny mutual aid to another municipality.

[CAM502 6]

Ok I got a Question:

When do you see the FDNY in Westchester?? Gotta be a pretty darn big situation.

Oh, by the way, S 10th Ave and Bushnell Pl is not on the Bronx line, it is well in Mt Vernon.

[DMA327 12]

It's my understanding that if you are in the mutual aid system in Westchester County that you have to go when called upon. Is this true or false?

And i think it's really disrespectful to the actual guys busting their humps in MV fighting a fire to say no to M/A. Your brother needs help, you go, No Questions Asked! It's not like it's the faults of MV firefighters that they do not have manpower. Guys need to learn to try a new idea besides saying no when somebody needs you help...PERIOD!

[GFD70 4]

S 10th Ave and Bushnell Pl is not on the Bronx line, it is well in Mt Vernon.

The next block west of S 10th in this area is Mundy Ln. which is the Bronx/Mount Vernon border. The next cross street to the south is W. 5th St, which is Nerid Ave. on the west side of Mundy Ln.

[Guest]

well i saw some pictures from this job, 3 story structure lets call it about 30x100 hevay fire through the roof, most of the top floor burnt off, departments on scene all FDMY, GFD 151, NEW RO engine n Truck, seems liek alot of rigs and man power for not a hugh bulding, given the need for FAST teams and the weather isn;t that hot, with a exterior ops job, seems liek alot of man power basicly standing FAST waiting for work. given its better to have the extra people reather then rush to clal them, thats alot of M/A for not such a major fire and lets not forget that it had pelham and pehlam manor and eastchester all on standby, thats alot of reolcations form other depts.

bottom line we all know MVFD is under staffed, but lets face it they still go to yonkers and New Ro on M/A jobs so why shouldnt; yonkers and NEW Ro respond to mt vernon theres no excuse, they have to help their brothers and thats why greenville goes its about helping our neighbors and keeping our brothers in arms safe.

The discussion is gettin old yes every MVFD job requires alot of M/A and i am sure one day some firemen form other depts will get hurt in Mt vernon and people will go nuts but buttom line is if u don;t help out Mt vernon now alot of people in the city and alot of firremen may get hurt...

[hudson144 150]

yes truck 7 alot of rigs at the fire-in mt vernon they show up with 5 engines= 10 men, 2 trucks= 6 men 1 rescue =1man add on maybe 3-4 officers you are still at a minimum amount of people to fight a fire. deduct 3 mpo's because they have to operate the pumps and that gives you= 14 men-deduct 2 men for the so called "FAST TEAM"= 12 men doesn't really give you much to work with does it,throw in the equation a report of people missing or trapped then the crews are forced to abandon some firefighting efforts and they try to do an effective primary search, as far as the mutual aid-yes fdmv does go out of town and when they do go the leave the city behind with 10-12 firefighters to protect 80,000+ citizens and when they do go out on mutual aid the first due assigment is all changed EG: 2nd due truck co is supposed to go to the floor above the fire for a primary search,open's up checking for extension etc-this is the stuff that alot of people don't understand when some of us say things about us going to mutual aid,we are as i mentioned above starting off with the bare minimum even when we are all in the firehouses,send a truck and an engine out of town and you are almost cutting us in half. fire service leaders in westchester recognize the problems but not many have voiced their opinions about sending help in (other than yonkers) . iv'e mentioned it before-the mayor feels that we don't need more manpower because we have mutual aid! b safe!

[mfc2257 464]

When do you see the FDNY in Westchester??  Gotta be a pretty darn big situation.

In the late '90's we responded with R-36 to an apartment building fire in Pelham and FDNY was on that job.

FDNY Engine & Truck 52 out of Riverdale end up in Westchester on the SMRP as far north as the Cross County at times as well.

There have to be more incidents where FDNY ends up in Westchester.

[27east 19]

I know FDNY ended up at the big, big apartment building job in Yonkers on Bronx River Road? a few years back in March. I think mutual aid requests have to go through the Commissioner's office during the day and the duty staff Command Chief other times.

[ajsbear 11]

Hudson, we all know FDMV is understaffed. The career FF staff has not really had an increase in numbers in years. There was a time that MV had roughly 140+ career FF's including officers plus over 100 volunteers. That number dwindled down to 50 due to people moving out of town, no recruitment and the problems between the career and Vol's. It got to the point that the Vol end was stopped from working at fires. Most of the Vol's are now members of other departments as chiefs, officers etc. MV did themselves in on that but your right. With today's demand there should be enough FF's to handle the initial attack without Mutual Aid plain and simple. Deparments in the north end of the county are a little different. Mostly vol. and mutual aid is indeed a big factor in the response.