Wearing Structural Turnout Gear On EMS Calls?

[x635 4,066]

I was wondering why it was neccesary for some Firefighters to wear Structural Turnout gear to medical EMS calls? Why isn't a station uniform good enough?

The only reason I point this out is that if you are fighting a fire, you are exposed to chemicals and other nasty substances, that often embed a pleasantly dangerous odor among other things in your gear, and besides dirt on your boots.

Now, somebody calls for an ambulance. It's a little old lady having diffculty breathing. She, like many eldery females, are neurotic about cleanliness in her house. She's embarrased to call for the ambulance, but is feeling really sick and doesn't have a choice. She calls, and the department she has responding is an FD that also provides EMS, or in somes cases just provides ambulance service. The FD just clears a brush fire, and some members are still in their bunkers and boots, which smell terribly of burning brush and their boots are covered with mud. However, they place their gear back on and respond from the station to this call. Why is this necceasary to track this dirt, mud, and chemical into this ladys house? Why is it neccasary to expose her to the odor? Is the patient on fire?

Would you want people walking into your house like this if you were sick? And would you want numerous people in your house?

[Guest]

I have heard this subject come up on numerous occasions. At times it is deemed necessary to wear turnout gear. At accident scenes etc. , also in the heat of the summer, if you are wearing shorts, this is a no-no on the scene. So, the first thing I would grab when I'm at a call would be my bunker pants. Yes, it is easy to say just bring a pair of sweats, but if you look in my truck the only equipment available would be my structural gear. Yes, it should be used as fire gear but when it comes to my safety I wil grab that any time. You gotta use whats available.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Why are shorts a no no? I wear shorts on calls as part of my uniform.

Otherwise, full gear gets a little nuts, if thats what your referring to. If you clean your gear as specified its not a problem with contamination. Some departments require the use of turnout gear for their biohazard resistance as required by now by NFPA. Also when I'm in the engine I have it on being its normally on the floor for me to put it on. Easier to have it on for another alarm then having to throw it in the rig and then put it on for a fire dispatch.

[21Truck 8]

when working on a rig with the squad I volunteer for they say shorts are a no no for accident scenes and traumas because there is exposed skin. IF i'm with the fire dept and we get an assist ems call i'll usually wear bunker pants unless we are called for a pt. in the woods and need our 6 wheelers then i wear jeans. I personally like the added safety of wearing bunker pants on a medical call

[unleashedff248 3]

I often wear my gear on medical calls. Like previously stated, I like the added safety of having gear on. It puts a pretty thick barrier between me and any hazards I might find on a medical scene, such as angry dogs, angry bees, or angry patients. It also protects my personal clothing from any expectorations of bodily fluid that I might encounter. It also serves as pretty good identification, rather than some guy walking up to your door in jeans and a t-shirt claiming he's from the FD. If my gear's dirty I will usually spare the person's home from that and not use it (and wash it later, a good thing to do every so often). As for the smell, there's not too much you can do about that. If the person really needs some help, a smell isn't going to bother them much I believe. I would always put my safety before a patient's COMFORT. We're running a fire department/EMS Corps, not a hotel. My opinion.

[Guest NYTruckie]

I know that Bedford Fire Department has two sets of gear, Fire and EMS if a member does both then they get two sets of gear. As for wearing shorts in summer and getting a call, ask the person that runs your ambulance (fire or Vac) if maybe they and put scrub pants on the ambulances. So if you are wearing shorts you can just slide them on and tie them.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

OK, to continue on with the shorts/turnout gear question.

If having exposed skin is a problem on a medical call, does your squad you ride with make you wear a level A or B suit? Why not. Wear a short sleeved shirt, exposed skin, your face is exposed as well. On my job we've been wearing shorts for about 3 years now as part of our summer uniform...not a single exposure due to wearing shorts.

Now yes, you should protect yourself a bit more according to the call, OSHA says that clearly, but it does come down to a personal choice also.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

I wonder if the whole turnout gear thing on medical calls started with Jonny G and Roy D. I can understand the long pants on EMS runs. If you have to kneel down it affords you a little more protection.

[Guest NYTruckie]

OK, to continue on with the shorts/turnout gear question.  

If having exposed skin is a problem on a medical call, does your squad you ride with make you wear a level A or B suit?  Why not.  Wear a short sleeved shirt, exposed skin, your face is exposed as well.  On my job we've been wearing shorts for about 3 years now as part of our summer uniform...not a single exposure due to wearing shorts.  

Now yes, you should protect yourself a bit more according to the call, OSHA says that clearly, but it does come down to a personal choice also.

I think that if you know the risks with exposed skin and wear shorts, short sleeves, thats your choice. I wish I could wear shorts.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I have worn bunker pants on certain EMS calls, but not all of them. Obviously if i am riding with my VAC, i do not wear my bunkers, but i will throw on long pants if i am wearing shorts. As far as MVA's go, i would love to have my bunker gear with me if i am riding with the VAC. Just having that extra bit of protection makes me feel more comfortable. Especially if i have to climb in a twisted up car to hold c-spine stabilization, i'd definately like to have my bunkers on.

As alsfirefighter stated, he wears shorts as part of his summer uniform. Again, this comes down to department policy & personal preference. Obviously he has been around long enough & knows what he feels comfortable in.

I like NYTruckie's idea of putting scrubs on the ambulances to give members the option of further protecting themselves. As we all know, calls don't always come in when you're ready for them. Theres been plenty of times when i've been in shorts & wished i'd had long pants. Having scrubs or something similar on the rigs would definately be a nice thing.

Also as stated, i like the idea that bunkers help to identify you better. If i am 1st on scene & go up to someones door in bunker pants, they know i'm with the FD. If you go up in jeans & a tee-shirt, they may be hesitant, especially elderly people. This is different for career & volunteer depts. though. If you are with a career outfit (fire, ems or both), chances are you are required to wear some sort of uniform. This not only gives you a professional appearance, but helps to identify you as well. As far as I know, not many volunteers wear uniforms on a daily basis.

My FD does a first-response/ems assist type program, although it seems to change every so often lol. It used to be that we responded to all ems calls in the village. Then it was only between 7am & 5pm. Now its only to life-threatening calls between 7am & 5pm lol. Anyway, if i respond ems with the FD, i will usually grab my bunker gear, but not neccesarily put them on. I take into consideration the type of call it is. Most type's of medical calls such as diff. breathing, chest pains, etc., i won't wear bunkers. Any type of call where there is a greater chance of bodily fluids present such as mva's, lacerations, puncture wounds, etc., i will put at least bunker pants on. However on mva's, i will wear full bunkers as per dept. protocol.

This was a good thread & great discussion. I think we've learned that it all comes down to department policy and/or personal preference.

No matter what you all decide (bunkers or not), just remember to look at the big picture & stay safe!

[BuffMedic236 0]

As for the members of my FD, we only wear our bunkers to car accidents or in bad weather. Now the fireman in New Rochelle are not allowed to run EMS calls in shorts, they either need station pants or bunkers. We had this converstyion today at work, being thet it was hot and muggy today. I think that we need shorts too!

[WAS967 97]

I was on a DOA call the other morning. Nasty DOA. Was very glad I had shorts on. I think one of the FD guys had shorts on and I felt bad for him having to drag that body against his bare legs. I'm sure he went back to station and took a nice LONG shower after that one. I've gotten used to wearing long pants year round. Doesn't bother me. YMMV.

[RWC130 594]

I wonder if the whole turnout gear thing on medical calls started with Jonny G and Roy D

LOL!!! Johnny G and Roy D "Squad 51" Yeah Baby!

They only had bunkers on at night. I guess daytime fires were

not as dangerous.

"10-4 Squad 51 responding KMG-365"

[Guest skubasam]

OK, to continue on with the shorts/turnout gear question.  

If having exposed skin is a problem on a medical call, does your squad you ride with make you wear a level A or B suit?  Why not.  Wear a short sleeved shirt, exposed skin, your face is exposed as well.  On my job we've been wearing shorts for about 3 years now as part of our summer uniform...not a single exposure due to wearing shorts.  

Now yes, you should protect yourself a bit more according to the call, OSHA says that clearly, but it does come down to a personal choice also.

=D> Well said! =D>

[Guest]

As far as "contaminated" gear inside peoples houses do you clean your boots after every call?Do you wash your uniform after working a code before going on another job?Do you wear gloves while driving the bus to the hospital after pt contact?(Don't laugh a lot do!)Short of gross contamination of bunker gear or muddy gear there is probably no more gunk on gear than on our uniforms anyway.Just be glad for the help. I am!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I've seen your legs WAS, and I don't think that body would want to be against your legs. lol.

If it was that nasty, I would've went back to the rig grabbed my bunkers and put them on while the rest of BLS was preparing to move.

[Remember585 815]

ALS never has pants on. If he did, then nobody would see the quality of his leg-waxing skills.

I, on the other hand, wear pants on 90% of EMS calls, simply because my legs are whiter then a roll of gauze and they frighten the children.

[BFD1054 1,552]

If i didn't know either alsfirefighter or Remember585 personally, i'd be a bit frightened lol! These are the posts that i like lol. Members joking around with one another and making fun of certain things! And John, who are you kidding? Never mind scaring the children, you could scare anybody bro!

[Guest skubasam]

I smell a hijacked thread

[Guest NYTruckie]

I smell

Yes you do.

[Guest]

TO ALL: Ok I'm in a Volunteer Rescue Squad.... we have our own EMS gear... it is waterproof, bloodproof, etc.... that i could understand to wear if you have like shorts on or not alot of clothing.... its not that heavy and it doesnt get very hot in them... there is a removable liner in the coats..... But they dont mind what we show up in as long as it isnt pants with chains or very thin shirt or even shorts.....

[Guest]

This evening I was on an EMS assist with my FD. Two FF/EMT-Ps responded with bunker pants. Since out EMS unit is also a mini rescue pumper we require structural fire gear be worn while the unit when it is in service. The PT was in a large bed and to assess we had to be in bed with her... yeah I know. Anyway, despite the poor presentation of the PT I was still worried about messing up the bed and room. What it comes down to is not infection control, that is something that each responder needs to prevent on their own, but rather closely reviewing your departments internal policy. Lets face it, most people in the fire service pride themselves on the ammount of dirt on their gear anyway. I say the cleaner, the better.

[Guest]

Im not a firefighter, so the turnout gear is never an issues for me. However, i have seen a number of ambulances which are part of fire departments have people respond with full structural fire protection on. I've been in a number of situations where i have been the EMT assigned to the ambulance for a particular shift (volly fire house supplimented by paid EMTs) i have asked the 1 or 2 firefighters who decied to take the call to at least keep their turnout coats either at the station or stowed out of the way. Why? Well, the stuff is very bulky and when those coats are open they flop around and get in the way and just cause more harm than good. And, well, there isnt any fire! If this was a fire scene, i would completly understand and probably loverlook the FFs wearing their turnout coats.

Per the shorts comment. I think its insane to wear shorts on a call, and you would never, in a million years catch me doing that. There is just too much crap out there to catch these days. What i have seen people do, which is really great, is wear shorts on duty - around the house and such - but keep a pair of EMS bunker pants (not fire/nomex they are designed soley for EMS use and comply to the NFPA bloodborne pathogens standard) either at the door to the bay or in the ambulance. I havent used them, but they are clearly a great investment to keep your legs protected.

[Guest]

Out here in LA, firefighters are to wear their uniforms after the morning workout and then can change into shorts some time after dinner (supposed to at least). Most of the time, firefighters out here will respond to EMS calls in uniform. At night, turnout pants and boots are the norm. Many company commanders make the guys wash the bottom of their boots after a fire so that if they get an EMS call at night, no damage will be done to someones carpet. Brush jackets are the norm. Some guys wear their brush pants and work boots at night on ems calls and turnouts when needed. Brush gear is the best. You can use them for more than brush fire. Most of the guys here take off their turnout coats and wear their brush jackets for overhaul, but thats another topic. You guys can check out what is worn out here if you go to www.transconmfg.com.

[firemoose827 324]

The Cobleskill Fire Department and Rescue Squad where I volunteer, issues us structural and EMS turnouts. We just got the EMS turnouts not too long ago and they come with jacket, and pants. Reflective with radio pocket, glove pocket, CPR Mask pocket and hand warmers. They meet all of the biohazard specs and are a source of indetification, and offer protection at accident scenes and for those "Bodiliy Expectorants" someone mentioned.

[ny10570 745]

This was brough up earlier by ALS, but no one has addressed it. If shorts are so dangerous, what about exposed arms? And even more dangerous, exposed faces. If you get anything on your arms or legs, so long as you don't have a break in the skin, you just wash it off. You get it in your mouth or eyes we have a greater chance for disease transmission. Who wears face protection?

[Guest]

This was brough up earlier by ALS, but no one has addressed it.  If shorts are so dangerous, what about exposed arms?  And even more dangerous, exposed faces.  If you get anything on your arms or legs, so long as you don't have a break in the skin, you just wash it off.  You get it in your mouth or eyes we have a greater chance for disease transmission.  Who wears face protection?

←

well, what about on an MVA, pedistrain struck, fire scene, crime scene, etc. where there are likely to be broken glass and debris and your likely to be going down to the level of the patient....putting your legs at greater risk for injury.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well what about using some common sense and listening to the call type and if you feel the need, wear your bunker pants. I've been on such calls without them and have faired just fine, by working in a crouched position like a baseball catcher.

Once again I will state, 2 years of wearing shorts in summer, not a single exposure. NIL. 3rd year coming up. You don't want to wear shorts, don't, we like to and it works for us.

As long as your skin is intact its not a major ordeal, and in fact if you get something on you with shorts on at least you can decon it directly and immediately with wipes or foam instead of when you have pants on when it sucks up the OPIM and sits there against your skin.

Also all structural firefighting clothing by NFPA standards has to offer bloodborne pathogen protection. So Nomex, advanced, GX-7, PBI etc is ok.

[firemoose827 324]

This was brough up earlier by ALS, but no one has addressed it.  If shorts are so dangerous, what about exposed arms?  And even more dangerous, exposed faces.  If you get anything on your arms or legs, so long as you don't have a break in the skin, you just wash it off.  You get it in your mouth or eyes we have a greater chance for disease transmission.  Who wears face protection?

←

I would like to reply to your post and ALSfirefighter. I was captain of my squad, and was told by the NYS health dept, ( Back in '95, '96) that it was necessary to wear pants when in ambulance. I enquired why, and they stated that when sitting on the squad bench providing care, the knees and legs are MOST vulnerable to bloodborne pathogens. EMS providers use gowns and facemasks on bad calls, but do not realy think about their legs. I was a believer in wearing some type of pants for calls after that, even though I get in some heated debates with my wife some times!!! But I hope that adds to this conversation. I am not saying its right or wrong, just saying what I was told by a health dept rep back then, and I thought it kind of makes sense. Does anyone else get issued Squad Turnouts? Just curious cause its new for us. Later.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

OK. For me it doesn't make much sense to me. I'd like to know who this rep was and what DOH policy this is stated in so I can ensure many of us in the area are in compliance and I'm sure many VAC's would be interested for their members who may answer a call from home in shorts. Which I think this rep might have been making a statement above his paygrade or knowledge. If the DOH said you had to wear pants, I doubt they would say it would be necessary only in the back of the ambulance. Not to mention again, I mention if you have pants on they are a sponge, funny enough when I think about my experiences, my legs weren't nearly as exposed to OPIM's as my face and arms. Once again I also have to bring up, that intact skin is ok and often considered extremely low risk in a exposure or contamination. Open wounds and non intact skin are vulnerable, the highest vulnerability lies with your mucous membranes. I won't kneel down with pants on in the back of ambulance, lone less with shorts on. Sounds like he was stating opinion, not fact based on any NYS DOH policy statement.

The gowns only protect your clothes, the sleeves your arms, and the mask and face shield protect the truly most vulnerable parts as stated earlier, your mucous membranes.