Ridiculous Article In Today's Post Regardarding L-120's MVA

[x635 4,066]

According to witnesses AND the Post, the 1994ish Seagrave Aerialscope was going "75 MPH" and "flipped three times". I find that extremly hard to believe. Typical NY Media "skell on the street" interviews and making the FD and PD look bad! :roll:

I wish the firefighters a speedy recovery.

Photo: http://www.nypost.com/photos/news07032005011.jpg

Post Article:

FIRETRUCK FLIPS IN B'KLYN 

By JOHN DOYLE and JULIE MOULT 

A firetruck lies overturned in Brownsville, Brooklyn, yesterday after it rolled while turning a corner. 

Firefighters tend to their injured comrades from Ladder Co. 120 after yesterday's accident. 

A firetruck flipped three times as it raced to a blaze in Brooklyn yesterday, leaving six firefighters injured. 

The smoke-eaters from Ladder Co. 120 were taken from the wreckage on stretchers and were listed in serious but stable condition at Kings County Hospital yesterday. 

"It looked like something out of a movie," said stunned witness Brandon Harris. 

"I saw it coming down the street and it was going pretty fast. It went to make a left and just flipped over and smashed through a fence and into a disused lot." 

The firetruck was heading to a fire at 180 Powell St. in Brownsville at around 12:30 p.m. when the accident happened. 

It is unclear what caused the crash, but witnesses say it was traveling at speeds over 70 mph. 

As it made a left turn from Sutter Avenue into Powell Street, the driver appeared to lose control and the vehicle went over onto two wheels. 

"They had to be going 75 mph. It was like a skid, then a boom. It sounded like a bomb," said Jermel Wilson, 23. 

"It flipped three times. People just climbed out. They were trying to get other people out." 

Another firetruck following behind screeched to a halt, and firefighters began to help their stricken colleague clamber out. 

"It looked like something deadly was going to happen when it turned over," said Lenny McCulough. 49. "It was laying on its side. The guys on the inside tried to get out from the cab. 

"One of the firemen pushed the door open, and I saw two or three firemen get out on top. It was something I've never seen before. He was going to fast, it happened so quickly. 

"There was another firetruck behind them. The men jumped out and tried to help." 

An FDNY spokesman, who said they were looking into the cause of the accident, added: "Six firefighters were injured. They are all in a serious but stable condition."

[Guest]

Those rigs wouldn't go 75-80mph if superman "ironically L120's logo" was pushing and they were going downhill........don't believe everything that is read in the trash!!!! [-(

Speedy recovery to all the 120 Truck brothers!

[x242Steve 1]

I'd like to see an Aerialscope do 75 MPH!

I'd also like to see some responsible journalism in NY!

Best wishes to our injured comrades...

[RWC130 594]

Fire Engine, Ambulance, Police Car, Etc with Lights Flashing and Sirens Blaring are all going 75 MPH. Right? NO WAY!

I doubt the rig was doing close to 60 MPH but considering the size of the apparatus with all the Lights flashing and Siren, Air Horns sounding it appears to go going a lot faster than in reality.

"Oh my that Fire Truck was doing 100 MPH" :---)

But if that same Fire Truck was coming to save your own @ss burning in a fire I bet you would have no problem with that.

A lot of large trucks such as Fire Engines are governed at speeds of 60-65 for safety reasons.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well, many apparatus can get up to speed that fast when the condition allow it. This case probably not.

Second, the larger the vehicle the faster it will appear to be travelling, add #3 and that is why that comment was made.

Third, a vehicle travelling on a flat plane makes judging of speed very difficult until it very near, once it goes by you it will seem to be travelling at a higher rate of speed because it will appear to come out of nowhere. Couple that with the large vehicle concept.

Also we all know that the average person cannot judge speed by looking at a vehicle. We generally have no reference to be able to put a speed of a vehicle as we are looking at it. Most experience comes from being in a vehicle with a speedometer and judging objects standing still as we are moving. Now if they only quoted sports athletes as accurate :roll:

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Well, look who they interview. I bet the person commenting doesn't even drive a car. Chances are he does not living in the city, and only has limited experience even riding in vehicles going near 70-80 mph.

These are also the "witnesses" that provide those accurate accounts of the police involved shootings. Enough said.

[JCESU 20]

Why don't we just call it for what it is..... An accident! But without getting into a class on A.I.-If that truck rolled completely "THREE TIMES" he was most likely (and conservatively speaking) do around 55 mph. If nothing esle contributed, i.e. "T-boned him, mechanical failure,the driver and he alone, barring any other factors than was printed in the paper, is responsible for rolling the truck and jeopardizing his and fellow FF's lives. We all know that emergency vehicles are allowed to pass safely through red lights and enjoy the privelige (sic) of legally violating traffic laws but that does not negate the operator of liability if he causes and accident. No-one interviewed truly ripped into the driver..they just stated their opinion. And I am sure wht they stated it most likely what they perceived that they observed. I understand that you guys want to come to his defense, but, you should be outraged that he would jeopardize everyone's life while behind the wheel. If you don't feel safe with someone behind the wheel....then let it be known. There are a couple of guys that I just refuse to be a passenger with because of the way they react to stress and beat on the truck. You aren't very effective from w wheel chair or a casket. " I welcome all comments good or bad"

Rick

[Steve 78]

The bottom line is, forget what the speed of the civilian witnesses state. The operator was traveling to fast to control the truck.

[Truck4 48]

What's a "disused" lot?

[Guest]

The bottom line is, forget what the speed of the civilian witnesses state. The operator was traveling to fast to control the truck.

[-X How the hell do you or anybody else know how fast they were going, wait for the investigation to be completed then give your @#$%$#@ opinion. Everybody is an Expert, with out knowing any of the facts. #-o :roll:

[Guest DADAY]

Had a similar speed incident. Our ladder went down the street to a call then people said they were flying. Our truck only does 58 mph.

[JBE 328]

It always looks faster when the lights and sirens are going. Let's not pass judgement on the LCC. Just pray for the injured members.

[JCESU 20]

The bottom line is, forget what the speed of the civilian witnesses state. The operator was traveling to fast to control the truck.

[-X How the hell do you or anybody else know how fast they were going, wait for the investigation to be completed then give your @#$%$#@ opinion. Everybody is an Expert, with out knowing any of the facts. #-o :roll:

Its called the law of physics. I guarantee you that before that truck was moved an inch, six scrillion pictures were taken and any obvious signs of mechanical defect were noted by the Accident Investigator. If it was mechanical defect, which is always a possibilty ( though not likely) those guys are gonna have one helluva comp case. If you have been cutting people out of cars for any lenqth of time then you pretty much can figure out what happened without being an A.I.The issue at hand is to bring to each others attention so at least its in the back of our minds when we are operating a 20 ton piece of equipment. Opinions in this kind of forum are good.... if someone else can point out a safety issue that can help me then let if fly. BTW when are they gonna add a smiley face that I can flick some body the bird with.... :wink:

[Guest]

The NY Post allways talks bad about FDNY and the NYPD. That is Ny press for you.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Oh, I'm not saying the guy wasn't going to fast to control the rig. I was just saying you can't get accurate statements from some witnesses . Particularly ones thast WANT to make the news. Cause if it don't stirp up controversey, it's not going to be used.

And I determined that the truck was going too fast by it having rolled 3 times and then resting on it's side. The rig is supposed to be with the ladder side. UP. The yaw markes behind it isn't helping the drivers case much either. Those are markes showing the truck traveling sidways for some distance. Accidents happen, and we learn.

[KMM152 0]

Look at your witnesses...50% of them were probably stoned out on crack!!!!

[NHFD21255 141]

First off lets wish all our brothers a speedy recovery but I have to agree with JCESU for a truck of this size to roll over 3 times speed had be part of the cause unless a large mechanical problem occured. The driver is ultimately responsibly and this year there have been WAY TOO MANY apparatus involved incidents. Why dont we talk about how to avoid the next one instead of who's to blame , we dont even know the "Offical" cause yet. =D>

[Grumpy 1]

I think the most obvious fact that is proven in this incident is that the NY Post dosen't look for truth in a story, just sensationalism! I drove trucks similar to that one for many years. I wasn't there so I don't know what caused the rollover. But "Steve", you were not there either, were you? Hope everyone involved comes out okay.

[firemn23 8]

I would bet the truck never rolled once completely but made a 3/4's roll. I saw a SUV roll once right in front of me and i could have swore that he rolled 9 times but the PO said there wasn't enough tire marks to substantiate that. From that i took it as rolling over is if you make one comlete turn meaning you would have to see the bottom of the rig 3 times for it to have rolled 3 times. Sounds like another case of distorted journalism. This case is an unfortunate accident and IF the AI comes back that they were only doing 55 and never rolled once the journalist should be held accountable for writing a false article.

[Guest WolfEMT]

The NY Post is a garbage newspaper that makes crap up as filler for their stories when they are too short. Read the Daily News if you want a decent paper.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Pbvpm, I know this to be fact the truck overturned. That doesn't happen unless you are travelling at a pretty good pace for a vehicle of that size and weight.

Some would say this isn't an accident, but an incident. Some places call them motor vehicle collisions instead of MVA's. Generally there is always some reason why a vehicle crashes on its own or with another vehicle and rarely is it ever an accident.

[Steve 78]

How the hell do you or anybody else know how fast they were going, wait for the investigation to be completed then give your @#$%$#@ opinion. Everybody is an Expert, with out knowing any of the facts.

Hey pbvpm, I was basicing my @#%#@ opinion on the fact that two witnesses stated the truck was moving at a high rate of speed and that the truck was turning the corner and flipped three times. No other vehicles were involved. Based on those facts, how do you flip a tower ladder. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure this one out.

Dont jump down somebody's throat when they voice there opinion, grow up!.

[Grumpy 1]

The picture shown in the Post, the one on this forum, shows a vehicle in pretty good shape considering it was supposed to have made three complete rolls. NO WAY! Looks like it laid over on the left side and slid. The ladder section hardly moved. How are the FFs doing? Anyone hear?

[Grumpy 1]

I just noticed another wreck in the NYC reported in the forum. An ESU truck with serious injuries on July3rd. Pray that all involved survive. Surprised to see no mention other than the original item .

[JBE 328]

Officers are ok. One ejected, one pinned, hurting but will live.

[Robert 3006 0]

you can't roll a truck that big over and over its not going to flip 3 times it went over on its side that is all it did

[BIGRED1 71]

BTW when are they gonna add a smiley face that I can flick some body the bird with.... :wink:

here ya go JCESU :pissed:

[JCESU 20]

HAHAHAHAAA.....u da-man....THAT MADE MY DAY....STAY SAFE PAL