x635

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  1. x635 liked a post in a topic by grumpyff in NY Fire Patrol 2 house sold   
    Saw this article in today's NY Post. Allegedly Anderson Cooper has purchased the house on West 3 Street.
    CNN star buys Firehouse
  2. x635 liked a post in a topic by Truck4 in Yonkers- Working Fire 01-29-10   
    Date: 01-29-10
    Time: 0905hrs
    Location: 1 Sadore Lane X Central Ave
    Units Operating: Sq-11, 314, 310, 312; L-70, 75, R-1, Safety, B-2
    Weather Conditions: Cold, wind
    Description Of Incident: Kitchen fire with (2) aided in a brick OMD.
    Writer: Truck4
    0905hrs- Sq-11 on location with nothing showing.
    0910hrs- B-2 rpts kitchen fire. Req. Empress for injured civilians.
    0917hrs- B-2 transmitting 10-30 (All-Hands), req. Fire Investigation Unit. MSU assigned.
    0924hrs- B-2 rpts fire is out, Empress treating (2) civilians. L-71 relocate Sta. 12.
  3. x635 liked a post in a topic by EJS1810 in Greenwich Multi-Alarm Fire 01-27-10   
    Date: 01-27-2010
    Time:0400
    Location: 71 N Porchunk (sp) Rd Greenwich
    Frequency: Greenich Trunk, Westchester Fire 16
    Units Operating: Greenwich Fre,Additional CT Agencies, Banksville T-7, Armonk T-9, Pound Ridge T-3, Bedford Hils T-5, KatonahT-6, WCDES Batt 16 Car2
    Weather Conditions:
    Description Of Incident: 4 Story vacent 200x100 Fire on all Floors
    Reporters: EJS1810
    Writer:
  4. x635 liked a post in a topic by ny10570 in Rear Vs. Mid Mount Tower Ladders   
    The visibility isn't so much an issue because most of the visibility you need is in the lower 2/3 of your windshield. Most rearmounts are similar to driving your personal vehicle with the visors down. Not ideal, but something you can deal with. The extra clearance you need to manage is easier because its in front where you can see it.
  5. x635 liked a post in a topic by 6714 in Somers -- Ice Rescue 1/28/2010   
    Date: 1-28-2010
    Time: 0725
    Location: Somers - 100 north of Plumb Brooke Rd
    Frequency: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=1334
    Units Operating: Somers FD, Scuba team, 45 Medic, fire police
    Weather Conditions: Snow
    Description Of Incident: 2 men in the ice - MEN IN ICE CONFIRMED
    Reporters:
    Writer:
    0732: Police attempting rescue; two medics requested.
    0733: Battalion 13 requesting three ambulances
    0734: Multiple people on ICE, "Possible MCI brewing", one person out of water on ice one person still in water.
    0738: All subjects out of the water
    0759: MOS injured at scene; KBHVAC being dispatched
    Event Chronology
    7:23:45 Unit=2441, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:24:38 Unit=45M3, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:27:34 REQ DIVE TEAM FROM MAHOPAC ON S/B AND DIVE FROM YORKTOWN
    7:28:59 253DIVE, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:30:43 PCFC NOTIFIED FOR DIVE TEAM
    7:30:48 BAT13, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:31:59 BAT16, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:32:38 R55, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:32:52 2443, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:33:09 45M3, Status=OL, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:34:13 EMS11, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:35:07 2443 ON THE SCENE, CONFIRMING TWO VICTIMS, RESCUE IN OPERATION BY PD, REQ. ADDL MEDIC.
    7:35:20 CC2, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:35:45 40EMS, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:35:55 PER SOMERS NEEDS 2 MA AMBULANCES
    7:37:30 DPT3400, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:37:32 PUTNAM SENDING ADDITIONAL MEDIC
    7:37:36 34M1, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:43:44 2ND AMB SENT FROM PUTNAM AS WELL.
    7:47:53 BAT16, Status=OL, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
    7:48:41 PER 40 CONTROL, MAHOPAC FALLS DIVE TEAM ON STANDBY IN QUARTERS.
    7:55:38 45M4, Status=DP, Location=ROUTE 100/PLUM BROOK RD SOMERS
  6. x635 liked a post in a topic by Guest in Ferrara M.P.V.   
    Here's some more information on this vehicle:
    http://www.ferrarafire.com/Apparatus/Pumpers/MVP/MVP.html
  7. x635 liked a post in a topic by antiquefirelt in Rear Vs. Mid Mount Tower Ladders   
    I know that quite often the "tailslap" of the MM can make driving them in tight streets a little tougher. The amount of body behind the rear wheels can be very long and it's not hard to smack a car or street signs as you make a tight turn. Having the majority of the excess in front of you at least lets you see where your putting it. I know other RM proponents like the ability to nose in and set up with little rotational movement, where a MM might require 90 degree or greater rotation if you can't pull past or take the time to back in. Also I think the OAL is shorter on RM's in general as the length of the cab is used to eat up some aerial length, whereas the MM starts behind the cab? Of course most MM's have one to two more sections than standard three section RM's.
    It would be easier for me to say what I don't like about RM's but of course I am biased, having a MM as my first due aerial.
  8. x635 liked a post in a topic by BFD1054 in Mohegan Lake Working Fire 1-26-10 & Manpower Issues   
    Sorry for using kudos, maybe youre right. You're damn right they did what they should have done. My point was that there may be some depts that wouldnt do the right thing. "Eh, we have 2 FAST members, 1 interior and 2 probies, but F it, lets roll anyway." Not a direct quote obviously, just an example.
    You say you have a major problem with my statement. My statement is based soley on what occurred during this incident. Yes, they could provide an engine, but not a FAST. I would hope that said provided engine had all interior qualified members. They could not provide a FAST because they did not have enough FAST qualified members. FAST members must go through additional classes/training and train at least once a month in those specific skills. Trust me, i agree 100% that EVERY firefighter should be FAST/RIT qualified, or just be able to rescue a fellow FF, period.
    You say that some VFD's send "their best" on mutual aid calls. I would hope they dont just send "their best," but those members who are properly trained for whats being asked of them.
  9. x635 liked a post in a topic by BFD1054 in Briarcliff - Bank Robbery - 01-25-10   
    Date: 01-25-10
    Time: 1632hrs (tow)
    Location: Chase-Manhattan Bank 1946 Pleasantville Rd.
    Frequency:
    Units Operating: Briarcliff PD, others
    Weather Conditions: Rain, wind
    Description Of Incident: Bank Robbery
    Reporters:
    Writer: BFD1054
    1632hrs-TMC (NYSP) broadcasting to all Zone-3 patrols; Briarcliff PD is investigating a bank robbery that occurred at the above address. Suspect described as a black male in his late 20's, aproximately 5'5" wearing black pants, black boots, black baseball hat, a blue "mechanics type" shirt with black t-shirt underneath. Suspect fled on foot in an unknown direction.
  10. x635 liked a post in a topic by BFD1054 in Stony Point (Rockland) - Working Fire - 01-27-10   
    Date: 01-27-10
    Time: 1840hrs
    Location: 259 Rt. 210
    Frequency: 46.18
    Units Operating: Stony Point FD (Dept. 18), West Haverstraw FD (Dept. 23) w/23-FAST, Thiells FD (Dept. 26) w/pumper, 44-9
    Weather Conditions:
    Description Of Incident: Working Fire
    Reporters:
    Writer: BFD1054
    1839hrs-44-Control dispatching Dept. 18, second call in district, to the above address for the reported fire in the building.
    1840hrs-44-Control dispatching Dept. 23; request for their FASTeam, Dept. 26; request for (1) pumper to the scene, Signal-12 (working Fire).
    1845hrs-23-1 on the scene.
    1856hrs-44-Control putting out Dept's 18, 23 & 26 tones; all units operating at the 259 Rt. 210 structure fire, operations switching to Frequency-3.
    1900hrs-Haverstraw FD (Dept. 4) requested to re-locate (1) pumper w/manpower to 18-100 (SPFD HQ).
    1930hrs-Dept's 23 & 26 are Signal 14 & 15 (in-service/assignment complete) on a code 571 (mutual-aid).
    1950hrs-Dept. 4 is Signal 14 & 15 on the code 571.
    2000hrs-Dept. 18 Command is terminated.
  11. x635 liked a post in a topic by 42truckie in Ossining FD new apparatus - Updated Production Photos   
    Draft drawing of new Tower Ladder 42
  12. x635 liked a post in a topic by SteveOFD in Ossining FD new apparatus - Updated Production Photos   
    The Village of Ossining has approved the purchase of two new fire apparatus.
    E99 Monitor Hose KME Predator 1500GPM/500Gal. Pumper
    L42 Washington H&L E-One 100' Rear Mount Tower Ladder
    The E99 Apparatus Committee will go for pre-production meeting 2/5/10, L42 Committee is at E-One today for their meeting.
    More info as available.
  13. x635 liked a post in a topic by batt2 in City of Yonkers Public Safety Dispatcher   
    The City of Yonkers has announced exams for:
    Public Safety Dispatcher
    http://yonkersny.gov/index.aspx?recordid=432&page=28
    and
    Public Safety Dispatcher (Spanish Speaking)
    http://yonkersny.gov/index.aspx?recordid=431&page=28
  14. x635 liked a post in a topic by BFD1054 in Lake Mohegan - Working Fire - 01-26-10   
    Date: 01-26-10
    Time: 1200hrs
    Location: 1740 Parnly/Lincoln/Lawrence/Lexington
    Frequency: 46.26/LMFD ops Units Operating: Cars 2260, 226-10, L10, Yorktown w/engine & manpower, Peekskill FASTeam, Mahopac Falls (cascade)
    Weather Conditions: Sunny, windy
    Description Of Incident: Working Fire
    Reporters:
    Writer: BFD1054
    11159hrs-L10 advising heavy smoke from the chimney area, will advise.
    1200hrs-Car 226-10 advising working fire, heavy smoke from the eaves, requesting the 10-75, FASTeam.
    1201hrs-Mohegan re-toned for the working fire, additional manpower needed. Yorktown FD dispatched; request for their FASTeam.
    1205hrs-Mohegan re-toned, request for additional manpower.
    1211hrs-Yorktown advising they cannot fufill the FAST assignment, but can supply an engine & manpower. Car 2263 requesting them with engine & manpower.
    1213hrs-Peekskill FD toned out; request for their FASTeam.
    1223hrs-R134 responding w/FASTeam.
    1227hrs-R134 on location.
    1249hrs-Car 2260 advising that as per Car 2263 (IC), fire has been knocked down, holding all units.
    1258hrs-Car 2263 advising situation is under control, correct address is 1711.
    1300hrs-Car 2263 requesting Yorktown water dept. to the scene.
    1301hrs-Car 2263 releasing Peekskill's FAST with thanks.
    1302hrs-60-Control advising 30 minute ETA for the homeowner.
    1334hrs-Car 2263 releasing Yorktown from the scene, holding all Mohegan units.
    1356hrs-All Mohegan units in service/returning.
  15. x635 liked a post in a topic by antiquefirelt in Mohegan Lake Working Fire 1-26-10 & Manpower Issues   
    I think 16fire 5 said it well that if you are using your RIT or FAST for other assignments, your first alarm is inadequate. That being said, some many tasks a on the fireground demand immediate action that having a crew doing a secondary task, while a primary one fails to be completed may create the need for the RIT.
    BNECHIS, again shines some light on the real issue. At some point FAST and RIT cannot be specialty duties. These things must be part of our basic training. In the above scenario, it sounds like the FD determined it did not have enough trained FAST FFer's to deploy. That means that potentially no one was readily standing by for rescue? What is worse, interior qualified guys with no RIT certs standing by or no one at all? Are we letting these non-RIT certified guys lead off a fire attack or perform search?
    Are some dept's keeping their best guys outside to rescue their own, while sending in the second string to look for citizens? WTF! Time for a check of priorities, training and reality. If I keep my best outside for RIT, I increase the chances they'll be needed. If I send them in, my RIT will be those firefighters who still are trained and qualified to rescue citizens which we are, except we have handles to grab on (SCBA harness).
    As my boss says,"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good". In other words something today is better than taking years to develop the perfect FAST that requires proper celestial alignment.
  16. x635 liked a post in a topic by Bnechis in Mohegan Lake Working Fire 1-26-10 & Manpower Issues   
    Again my issue is if a member does not have FAST training then they are not an interior qualified firefighter.
    Yes it is part of the career academy. Just because it is not included does not mean a department can't or should not require it.
    When we talk about the different training standards, I find it amazing that any chief would consider sending a member (his "brother") into a working fire without having been trained in survival. And not requiring them to know what to do if a "brother" gets in trouble.
    So based on previous postings and OFPC's discription of FAST, we have departments that are willing to send members into burning buildings that do not know how do the above listed skills. Why bother having a fire department at all, it is clear that these departments do not care about there members or the public if they are so willing to put themselves at risk, because 16 hours is way to much time to invest in ones brother.
    PLEASE THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT THIS....IF YOUR DEPARTMENT ALLOWS THIS, IT NEEDS TO CHANGE TODAY.
  17. x635 liked a post in a topic by efdcapt115 in Mohegan Lake Working Fire 1-26-10 & Manpower Issues   
    I know one member here was peeved that the discussion has as much of, if not more to do with FAST/RIT than the actual Mohegan Lake fire title at this point.
    Well, the board is a bit short on information about this particular incident right now, maybe more will come in.
    In the meantime, to see this much discussion and interest in FAST/RIT work, is in my opinion FANTASTIC.
    Not so many years ago, I remember many Incident Commanders grappling with the concept of RIT; being resistive of it because in many cases the arguement was there wasn't adequate manpower for the fire attack, let alone dedicating members to "do nothing" but stand-by, watch and the key ingredient "be ready."
    The OSHA standard has been effective in that the discussion has evolved to this point; where being RIT qualified is actually additional training, a different mindset on the fireground, and departments have moved up to, and are maybe still challenged by the standard.
    Firefighter Survival has become "mandatory" for RIT, as has the actual RIT training.
    It has been incorporated into the standard curriculum for firefighter training.
    Tools, techniques, improvements, have exploded from being rare, to being standard.
    I'm glad I lived to see this day.
  18. x635 liked a post in a topic by Remember585 in Training Foam   
    In my own opinion, it's cheaper and easier to use Dawn dish soap and water then to buy training foam.
  19. x635 liked a post in a topic by Remember585 in Brussels Firefighters Strange Protest   
    While I see the humor in it, I also see some serious negligence by the firefighters.
    1. All of these apparatus are here, what is left for emergency responses?
    2. Say an incident comes up that would require the use of that foam? Oops, we used it to prove a point, sorry.
    3. Lighting fires in the streets? Come on.
    4. Blocking streets and causing a public hazard, not smart.
    Like it or not, public servants are held to a higher standard, and this is bordering on moronic. If it occurred here, people would of went ape sh1t!
    But, I do think it is funny and probably got some peoples' attention. Hopefully whatever it is they're seeking is met and done so before more shennanigans occurs.
  20. x635 liked a post in a topic by efdcapt115 in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    I know somebody other than me who watched the video is thinking this, so I'm going to pose the question:
    For a.....DOG in the water?
    While I give full credit to the members' performance at this alarm, I must ask; where is the "risk/reward" assesment for this type of response and subsequent rescue? I can understand the concern about civilians attempting an amateur rescue attempt, and putting their lives and thefore LAFD/PD members potentially at risk.
    But what about a sniper with a tranquilizer-dart gun and a net deployed a hundred or two yards down river? C'mon people, use your imagination here. What else could have been done?
    The brother who actually made the grab got multiple puncture wounds and bites from the animal. That was the hardest part of the video to watch. I was wondering if he had some extra protective gear on to prevent the dog from biting him; aside from his regular rescue gear. Guess not.
    *What if the dog is rabid?
    *What would critics be saying if the helo had a tragic accident during the rescue attempt? Do you think the Chief and other Commanders would be receiving any criticism/lawsuits from grieving familes/getting roasted in the press, etc?
    *Helo rescues as routine as they might be for a place like the Los Angeles basin, are still some of the riskiest operations undertaken by emergency services, are they not?
    Risk ALL OF THIS.....for a dog?
    Conclusion: IMHO, If I was making decisions at this incident (based on the limited information received in the post and on the video), I would never have put the helo rescue into operation. Nor would I have risked injury (which did occur) to any one of the firefighters. You know it can be heartbreaking to sit by and just watch as an animal struggles. Human emotion takes over; everyone wants to do something. BUT, somebody has to evaluate what the risk/reward is; and at the end of the day no firefighter's life is worth risking for an animal. As cold as that may sound, that's what "Incident Commanders" are paid to do; take the emotion out of the equation and make decisions in the best interest of those you serve and protect, YOUR TROOPS.
    ~Just an opinion, and once again give credit to all the brothers/sisters who performed their duties as ordered!
  21. x635 liked a post in a topic by billwiegelman in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    Totally assinine! 50+ firefighters for an hour and a helicopter. Whoever was in charge of this operation should be called in on the carpet and read the riot act. Total misuse of manpower and resources as well as putting people in danger for what? A freaking dog
  22. x635 liked a post in a topic by JFLYNN in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    This would be a tough call for an IC. We all, or most of us, love animals. Your people are chomping (no pun intended) at the bit to help the dog and use their training and equipment. If you pull it off, it is good PR. If you decide not to go for it, your own people as well as the public are probably all pretty pissed off at you. I will not Monday morning quarterback this incident because I wasn't there and I don't have all the details. However, if I were the IC at a similar incident, I would not place my members at any significant risk to save an animal.
    Anyone who may at some point in their career be faced with a similar go or no go decision would be well advised to think now about what decision they might make, and to realize the pressure that will be put on you if you decide to stand by and do nothing. Sometimes, though, it takes the most courage to make the decision that you will do nothing. I'd rather stand by 1,000 times and watch animals die, than have to live with the fact that someone under my command was killed or suffered a serious injury attempting to save a non-human life.
  23. x635 liked a post in a topic by ckroll in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    Only the rescuers on the call are in a position to judge the risk/benefits/value of the operation. They know their abilities, which from viewing the clip are remarkable. It looks like the ultimate training exercise. Pulling a mannequin is nothing like dealing with a terrified living creature. As we all know, when conditions are right for one emergency, they are right for many. Had there been a need for the resources that were at scene, say for a person in the water, one may assume those resources would have been redeployed to the higher value target---and response time would have been excellent.
    Having been bitten or kicked a time or six on rescues, when handling wild/terrified animals it is almost a given that teeth or hooves will be an issue. Getting bitten is not that bad. It's why some of us have had rabies vaccinations and why there is prophylaxis for animal bites with unknown vaccination history.
    Motorcycle tie down straps from wreckers work well for securing legs of large things that kick. Cargo netting, commercial or home made, especially out of rope that floats is light weight and works well for 'If you can't tie it, tangle it.' situations in conjunction with a handful of carabiners. A jacket/shirt flipped over a head with sleeves used to secure it buys time.
    As for, 'it's only a dog'. A life is a life; where one draws the line on value is a personal decision. -- A society can be judged by how it treats its animals and its elderly--- [someone else said that]. If we start placing a value on a life before deciding what resources it gets.... well that might be a slippery slope.
    Operations one is well trained for will be easy/safe and operations one has not trained for will be difficult/dangerous. My opinion is the rescue of the dog was a well orchestrated act of compassion that speaks volumes about those who did it and their dedication to training and preparedness. It should make us all proud.
  24. x635 liked a post in a topic by efdcapt115 in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    Updater:
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/los-angeles-firefighter-recounts-daring-dog-rescue.html
    Apparently the "rescue" was shown live on both FOX and MSNBC. I stumbled upon this website while doing research this morning. The comments section from the general public reads very much like our thread here on BRAVO:
    http://yesbuthowever.com/los-angeles-fire-department-saves-dog-la-river-8136480/ The following are quoted comments from that site:
    This one is a real interesting take on the state of affairs in LA. (this guy might have some "issues"):

    Sometimes when a controversial topic is brought up on EMTBRAVO, some people on our board only see in posts what they want to see. I posted in support of everyone on the ground/in the air doing their duties, before concluding that the DECISION to perform the helo operation and the amount of resources deployed, the risk/benefit analysis, I disagreed with.
    Since then I'm finding through research how the task-force system utilized in LAFD can be very effective in deploying vast resources rather quickly. Learning is fun!
    The "I'm proud....blah blah" comments on our thread are redundant at this point.
    Back to BRAVO:
    It's really great to see the humanity of those who posted in support of the actions taken at this alarm, even though I disagree with you about the way this problem was solved. Thank you Chris for acknowledging my question about sedating an animal; I hope someone steps forward here who has further knowledge on the animal sedation subject and adds to what you have informed us of.
    I have to say though, that I am surprised at SOME of you who would equate this response and subsequent control of the alarm, to a "training exercise." I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say that NO department would ever conduct a training exercise with a chopper in the immediate vicinity of high-voltage wires, nor would they lower the rescuer and the training victim onto a roadway that moments earlier had free flowing traffic on it.
    This was by no means a controlled environment, and please correct me if I'm wrong; training exercises are conducted in CONTROLLED environments. So please to whomever, you want to support the canine rescue that's your opinion and right, but do not compare what happened during this incident to training.
    I have no experience operating choppers, being lowered out of one for a rescue, flying in darkness with night vision goggles, etc. But I have helped a few of them land at emergency scenes in my day. A few years ago on the Bronx River Parkway, we had a BMW that flipped over at a high rate of speed, pancaked the passenger compartment, and the driver suffered a fractured spine as a result.
    While we were cutting the roof off, the Medic decided he wanted a medivac chopper on scene, so we called for them. When the chopper arrived, an engine had been assigned, they had cones set up on the far end of the grassy area we were operating on, furthest away from the wreckage. Yet that did not prevent the chopper from nearly landing on top of the vehicle, and while doing so much of our emergency equipment was literally blown away. Yes, your oxygen bag will roll down the roadway very quickly if you happen to find yourself in a "prop wash." I remember looking up and saying to myself "so...this is how Vic Morrow felt in his last breathing moment!" Thankfully, the pilot's "situational awareness" saved us all.
    Since that event, I have never looked at chopper related incidents as "routine", and in my opinion there is an inherant danger at all times during helicopter operations.
    I have a close friend who suffered a major tib-fib compound fracture while in the NAVY. A chopper that was delivering mail was tethered to the ship with a steel cable. They used to slide the mail bags down the cable to the ship. Something mechanical happened, the chopper crashed into the ship, the sailor standing next to my bud was killed, as were the helicopter crew.
    Maybe some of you who think deploying a chopper should be an easy decision to make, will have to wait for some kind of incident with one to see things a bit differently. Try googling "Rescue helicopter crashes" for a start.
    FYI: This is a Los Angeles law firm that specializes in suing helicopter agencies with regard to personal injury or death:
    http://www.airplanecrash-lawyer.com/PracticeAreas/Air-ambulance-accidents.asp
    Lastly, I happen to love dogs and most other animals. My pet is a Senegal Parrot, he's getting to be fifteen now, soon he'll be chirping for his drivers licence.
    If you would like to follow up on your good will toward animals, I strongly suggest you consider making a donation to help support those most in need:
    http://www.aspca.org/donate/

  25. x635 liked a post in a topic by mikerabbit in Los Angeles swiftwater canine rescue   
    In regards to using tranquilizing darts, or sedating the animal it is not as easy as it sounds. As Chris said earlier their are different dosages for different animals and they are all weight dependant, so it is necessary to be accurate on your estimate of the animals weight. The darts are also very slow due to being in most cases air propelled and heavy, so even if you are a "great shot" hitting the animal in the right spot (a large muscle ie. thigh or shoulder)is difficult when the animal is moving , especially as you get farther away. Once you dart an animal you own it. That means that you are responsible for its well being and sustaining its life, if you are not able to get to the animal after it is darted, it could lose its airway and die. Depending on the drug used, many animals are still conscience and just their muscles are disabled so this would be considered cruel should the animal be conscience and drown due to being darted. You would have been better off shooting it and putting it down immediately.