x635

Kill the power, leave someone there to maintain it is not restored.
Remove victim. I would never attempt to move a car regardless of its mechanism of power.
Get the keys you need for your elevators. I think firehooksunlimited.com has them. Better off getting a whole set, you never know when you may need em.

Thanks everyone for the input, and don't stop please! Several people have mentioned Dragon Rescue, including a few PM's, so I have a few different routes to go, thanks again everyone I do appreciate it.
Most likely I am going to take what people have written and provided here and try and use as much as possible to help me get better aquainted, and the others in my company, thanks again!

We had one a few weeks ago - which made two I've done in my home district. At my work fire brigade I've done considerably more. As mentioned above, the best bet is to contact the service company for the elevators in your district for tips on how they work.

One of the first things you could do is sign up for the Elevator Rescue course offered by NYS. Along with that, to become proficient on your specific make/model elevator, find out which manufacturer made it and once it's installed, have one of their repair technicians go through emergency procedures with you such as locating and lockout/tagout the power source, whether the elevator is cable or hydraulic and how it operates, gaining access to the elevator car, manually opening the doors, etc.
I have found they are more than happy to help you because if you force entry inot the elevator and screw it up, it's more headaches for them. Also see if they'll give you the correct elevator drop key. If you only have two elevators in your district, no need to buy the entire set.
As for in service training, at minimum you can do a powerpoint and have the tech show you around, but you should also have him let you do hands on with the actual elevator car.
As someone else mentioned, Mike Dragonetti runs an excellent elevator rescue class as well.

as was stated already contact Mike Dragonetti @ dragonrescue.com for excellent classroom and hands on training

In Poughkeepsie we go to these on a routine basis and it's usually pretty easy to gain access. We turn the power off and just use the drop key to get the door open. Also, most elevators get stuck from a electrical glitch and sometimes switching the power on and off may get the elevator moving again.

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.
My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.
How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

http://spfdrum.googlepages.com/home
here are some good power points on elevators hope this helps

Just a suggestion, see if there is a service company in your area and ask them if they will do a training session for your department. This way you get to learn about all the mechanical workings of the system from a technician that works on them everyday. If possible conduct the drill right at the location get some hands on.
Scott

My department had a class done by DRM whom taught a good class on rescue. Most likely you are dealing with an elevator possibly 4 floors or less which is hydraulic. First determine what floor the stuck elevator is on. Most cars stop moving due to door issues, so making sure the door is shut and that the floor above/below is clear you can move on to the rescue. Using proper tag out procedures you can shut off electric and then remove the cover and use the hydraulic override to lower the elevator to proper floor height and let the victims walk out. Polling will allow you to locate the elevator car location (What floor). Rescue from the car would require a good anchor and roping so that if the car is moved no one is at risk of injury. The lowering and stopping of the car can be done using the hydraulic override. The last thing you want to do is to take (Victims) out using a ladder and the top of the elevator car. Since we need a controlled rescue I think by law the top of the elevators are locked so that the victims cannot climb out of the elevator.

here are some steps that need addressing and some already have
determine what kind of elevator you are being called to work on you may only have a hydro, but does your mutual aid area have traction elevators?
do you have the keys to open all the doors you may come across?
where is the elevator stuck?
is it a true emergency ie medical call or just a stuck occupied elevator?
do you have an sop for lock out tag out? ANY elevator you are going to work on MUST have the power shut off before starting any evolution.This is probably the most important thing you have to do. with that said do you leave a member at the shut off, (in the old days we always took the fuses out and put them in our pockets), do you shut it off and lock it out so no one else can put it back on, or do you just assume because you shut it off that no one else is in the building answering the same call: IE: building maint, PD, elevator repairman who might turn it back on for whatever reason.
how many people are in the elevator? involves making contact with the occupants and possably calming them down BEFORE any attempt to open doors
where is the car in relation to the floor
is there a fall hazard into the shaft by ANYONE FD or OCCUPANT UPON REMOVAL
a little giant ladder/ closet ladder is standard on all our responses to help remove occupants
how good are you at getting the doors open practice makes perfect
AND PLAN B FOR THAT ONE IN A HUNDRED CALL WHERE NOTHING YOU PRACTICED WORKED
This is just a quick overview some steps were already mention in previous posts I am sure i left out something along the way

See post #13.
Key words here: "If you don't like a member"......
Thanks for validating my post!

I didn't see anyone lining up to bash the original poster, much less 10. If I'm wrong please correct me with some specific factual information.
The original poster claimed that there are people who are allowed to "stir the pot in multiple threads", "bash", and to be "unprofessional and counterproductive", yet he has given no specifics. Where is the evidence of this???
Yet, no one has bashed him. Several members have made great, eloquent, FACT BASED responses which were
respectful and did not in any way make a personal attack. His post was rebutted. He was not attacked personally. Why can't some of you see this? I know most of you do see this of course which is why I, and others, will continue to speak out on here or elsewhere as we see fit in order to, in my case, attempt to improve fire and EMS in this area of the country. (I'll leave law enforcement to the professionals in that area)
It really is hard sometimes to believe that the members on this forum are all (or mostly all) in emergency services what with all thin skin.
I really do believe the acronym QTIP is so applicable here...I often use it to remind myself to do the same...why not try it guys?

Well south of the Mason Dixon now so past experience is all I've got....
Best chimney firefighting SOP's I've experienced were in college in Gettysburg, PA. Tried to bring some of it home to Millwood but got the usual Westchester "we know it all attitude" and barely got a set of chimney bombs (plastic baggies with dry chem) on the rigs as a result.... Rumor has it that they've been removed since.
HOWEVER I used to run 10+ serious chimney fires a year and the following always worked:
1: Make sure a truck company is there to have competent people on the roof
2: Use sand or dry chem via shovel to extinguish fire in fire box. Extinguishers only add to property damage. Leave exterior door open.
3: Place sheet of plywood over front of fireplace.
4: Have PPV in place (not necessarily running) at exterior door
4: Have crew on roof drop 1lb bags (preferably from the produce section of the grocery store because they melt easy) of dry chem into chimney.
4: Place metal plate over top of chimney, close exterior door.
5: Allow fire to suffocate in chimney.
6: Use PPV, exterior door, and roof crew to mitigate smoke condition via chimney as it is the most efficient way to expel smoke after fire has been extinguished.
7: The following should always be deployed as a backup: Uncharged line at firebox, uncharged line on roof, dry chem at fire box, chains on roof, utility rope on roof, pike pole or haligan on roof to be tied to rope, metal can to remove debris from fire box.
Chimfex, AFFF, wet water, and dry chem via pressurized extinguisher only add to property damage.
It doesn't take much to put a chimney fire out. It also doesn't take much for a chimney fire to put a house on the ground.

We use the method most talking about using Chemfex. We learned a new method when the Chemfex company burned down years ago (Chemfex is now available again though)
Here is the new method
Clear the box
Set up positive pressure fan (we have an electric one for this purpose) - use at a low to medium speed.
Fan directed to fire place area
Use dry chem extinguisher and spray in spurts up the chimney til out.
Precautions with this procedure - The pressure of the fan can cause fire thru defects in the chimney into the structure, therefore you must make a thorough TIC inspection of the chimney to the attic.
Advantages of the procedure, if roof is steep or snow covered, you do not need FF's on the roof.

Wow...really? Was there a past injury or something that made the department look to avoid the roof?
Do you guys have an aerial?

1) We empty the fireplace or woodstove.
2) We spray a dry chem extinguisher up the chimney until it comes out of the top of the chimney and there is no more fire present.
3) If step 2 didn't work, we have chains that we will use. It is part of our policy to avoid unnecessarily going on the roof.

1. Line to room as backup. More lines if indicated
2, Put out fire in box w/ AFFF 2 1/2 gal can ( Steam from this also quiets chimney fire a little)
3. Chains down from top (if no chimney chains any chains on a rope will do) Then Afff from top.
4. Afff at bottom to handle any drop-down chunks
5 Do a good overhaul annd secondary search around chimney, attic

1)Empty the fire box.
2)Check for extension.
3)Gain access to the roof and flue.
4)If fire is present in the flue, Chimfex once or twice, then chains if still not out we have chimney nozzles. To my knowledge it has only been used once in a masonry chimney that was already shot and needed to be replaced. That was years ago, 99% of the time Chimfex and chains does it.
Never heard of plastic baggies and dry chem....neat idea.

Discuss your department's chimney fire tactics...residential dwellings.
Do you use "chains" to knock the crap off the walls?
Plastic baggies with dry chem? Chimfex?
Stretch a line or not?

I don't post on here often, and when I do I keep my posts to a minimum. I like to get involved in debates about sensitive issues just as much as some other members do, but I don't get involved in serious debates on this site because you say one thing and right away 10 people are crying that you're bashing or criticizing. Quite frankly, it's a turn off for a lot of people who may be able to contribute positively to the forum, but don't want to get all mixed up in the nonsense.
I don't think that outright attacks should exist in this forum. I don't think this forum should become the equivalent of an NYPD Rant type forum where a bunch of disgruntled emergency services personnel talk about who is the worst paramedic, or the laziest cop, or the buffiest firefighter. I think this forum should remain a constructive place for local emergency services personnel to debate and discuss the issues that exist in emergency services, whether at the local or national level. Chris192's post in the other thread related to this topic is a perfect response I think... if only I could put it so eloquently, but honestly I don't care much about being eloquent.
Emergency services personnel generally have Alpha/dominant personalities. They're leaders, they face things that the general public does not face, and we do things that the general public does not do. Having an alpha personality means sometimes you have to grow some thick skin. If someone throws a jab at volunteers, don't cry about it. Come up with an educated rebuttal that disputes what that member is saying. Problems exist across the board with paid, volunteer, and combination departments. Discussing these problems is not bashing, it's a discussion to talk about the problems that exist. If you don't like the fact that your agency has faults that someone pointed out in this forum, get over it. Maybe the points brought up here are valid points, so instead of crying about it, do something about it. Make necessary changes, ask how things can be improved, ask what you can do to bring your agency up to the recognized standards.
The simple fact is that in an area where there is so much diversity amongst its emergency service personnel, there's always going to be conflict and debates. Just because someone's views on a certain person, agency, service, or method of doing things aren't your own views, as JFLYNN says, QTIP.
I can only hope that too many members of the general public don't read the nonsense that goes on here. Some of the threads are fantastic, with great input from a lot of educated and experienced individuals. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out posts that are not constructive.
While I don't personally know you Seth, I know you value this forum for what it is and I know that you and the staff have put a lot of time, effort, and money into creating this forum. All I can say is, don't let all the petty complaints and other nonsense get to you. If people have a problem with things that are said here or topics that arise, let them move on, and find another forum where everyone holds hands and sings songs around a campfire. If they choose not to move on, then they are going to have to learn not to be so sensitive and grow some thicker skin.

Date: 1/1/10
Time: 05:15
Location: Route 100 south of Crow Hill Road
Frequency: 46.26 / Fire 17
Units Operating: 2531, 2533, E270, E273, R16 / YVAC 86B2 & 34M1 / YPD
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: Single vehicle rollover with entrapment.
Reporters: Remember585, Onlocation
Writer: Remember585
One patient extricated, taken ALS to WMC.

This past week, 21 firefighters and myself completed Firefighter 2 at the Westchester County Fire Training Center. I'd just like to take a moment to thank our instructors, Tom MacPherson, Bill Dingee, Ralph Stupple, Pete Bertocchi, and John Baker. These instructors dedicated so much of their time to educating us, as well as firefighters across Westchester and beyond. The instructors that teach us often go unthanked for their diligent work and effort. I just felt it important to recognize them for their dedication to educating us.
Congrats to the rest of my classmates, you all worked hard this week, braving the sub-0 wind chills and lots of ice to better yourselves. Excellent work.

It all depends on what you plan on doing with it. You need to make sure you have a "plan" if you are going to make the investment with the technology. Will it be integrating with CAD/dispatch? GPS enabled? Security considerations also need to be taken into consideration. Just mounting a computer in a truck with no software or shortcuts is not very useful. You also need to make sure you have someone keeping the computer updated/current. You also need to consider the type of computer and the use it will get. A Panasonic Toughbook (or similiar) will cost $4,000 plus. The newer CF30 computers also have an integrated modem (Gobi). I would also check with your State to see if you can get on a State contract (Verizon, AT&T, etc.)
Before you select a Wireless carrier, I would check the signal strength in your rig. I would be sure to mount an external antenna given the amount of material that will be surrounding the cab of the truck/computer.

A 33 year old Firefighter was killed last night in Calumet County WI while fighting a fire in a dumpster. The Fire Department was notified via the PD of the Fire, as crews were engaged in Firefighting when i violet explosion occured killing the one firefighter and injuring 9 others. One firefighter is listed in crital condition and the 8 others had non life threatening injuries. Neighbors said that the explosion was strong enough to rock their homes. An investigation is underway. As we are aall very much aware of any incident might end up with bad results. In dumpsters you never know what may be in the dumpster. Be safe out there!