DCJPells

x129, you are right about the basement. The buildings are owned by Vassar College and they are determining if it is better to repair or start over. It was originally built in 1902 so there are many things that would need to be addressed (asbestos, wiring, etc). They also own the vacant lot next door.

The box is based on the Urban Search and Rescue markers and is used for any building in the town that has been condemned This does not have to be a result of fire conditions.

I think its the new helmet..

You may be able to work with this

Module I Awareness 11 22 05.ppt

Conditions on arrival "A" side. This is where the occupants evacuated to.

Courtesy Arlington Professional Firefighters IAFF Local 2393

Is Victor still there?

Yes he is but he may be retiring this year.

In extensive Colliers Mansion-hoarding situations even this will not be enough. On an EMS call I had one that we were met at the front door which only opened to about 24 inchs. there was a tunnel (think hampster habitate) and we followed the patients soon thru these tunnels (note: this was before OSHA Confined Space Regs). I noticed the tunnel was starting to slope up (on the staircase). We got to the master bedroom and it opened up to almost full size. We had had a critical GI Bleed and requested FD. Pt. got O2, 2 LB IV's and MAST Pants (this should help date it for some). FD arrived and we knew she would not survive the trip through the house, so a 6' x 8' "door" was cut in the 2nd floor wall (from the exterior) with a K12. Pt was removed via ladder.

Afterwards the building dept. condemed the building and the "overhaul" was done with front end loaders.

My point is we were there under non fire conditions and there is no way without being shown the tunnels we would have even found the pt. if stuff had been disturbed we would still be looking. I found it amazing that people could live that way.

I have had similar non-fire experiences but not to your extent. Imagining it under fire conditions is frightful.

x129k....It was time for new gear.....

I agree that under most circumstances a missed victim is not understandable. It did not go as much to say it was a Collyers Mansion situation but under those circumstances I could see there being a problem. There was evidence of the possability of person(s) being in the structure so a more thorough 2nd search needs to be done. Maintain possession of the structure and dig.

There have been several reported cases where the victims were trapped under the "stuff" in these situations without having a fire.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Collyers+Mansion&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS357US359&tbm=isch&source=univ&ei=gt_eUIDYC6Ls0QGm8YCABQ&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=826

What are your thoughts. I have read a few of these over the past couple years.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Firefighters-put-out-fire-miss-body-inside-home--184866921.html

Town police confirmed three are dead after an early morning house fire at 112 Fairview Avenue in the Town of Poughkeepsie. At a press conference today, police said the fire claimed the lives of two females, both Marist students, and one male, who did not attend the Poughkeepsie college. They did not release identifications, stating that they are still notifying families of the deceased.

http://www.poughkeep...psieJournal.com

You are correct.

A town cannot run any type of fire protection in NYS. They have no power or levy over the operations of the district as they are two separate governing entities. All they are allowed to do, is collect the taxes that the district asks for, and hands the check over to them each tax year. I'll use Yorktown as an example: The Yorktown Heights Fire Department, does not exist. The Yorktown Heights Engine Company Number 1, which is a social organization that supplies the manpower, and the Yorktown Heights Fire District which sets the operating budget and purchases all the equipment and apparatus for the Engine Company members to use exist. They work in operation together to provide fire protection for the town, but in the legal sense, are no way a department of the town, or a department at all. The Chief answers to and works closely with the Board of Fire Commissioners of the district

I'm pretty sure I have this right, but Cities and Villages have an actual Fire Department in their government (a department of 'The city of X" = X fire department). The Croton Fire Department, is an actual department that falls under the Village of Croton - on - Hudson and subsequently answers to the Village Board which sets its expenditures at the recommendations of the Chief of the department. As a real mind turner, they also contract out with parts of Cortlandt for Fire protection. There is no "Fire District" line per se. This is why when Tarrytown had their LODD, the Village was slapped with "Serious Violations" from PESH,"The Village of Tarrytown exposed the employees of the FD (Fire Department) by not developing a permit-required confined space entry program, or provided the necessary training." (http://tarrytown.pat...-manhole-deaths) Had this happened in a town with a fire district, the town itself would have 0 liability.

edit: if consolidation were to occur, there would have to be one large Fire District. i.e. "The Northern Westchester fire District" which could span across towns and villages (I'm not sure about cities).

Yes there is a fire department in a fire district. Taken right from town law:

"11-a. The members of the fire department of the fire district shall

meet at a time and place designated by the board of fire commissioners

on the Thursday following the first Tuesday in April of each year and

nominate persons for the offices of chief and such assistant chiefs as

may be provided for in the rules and regulations...."

The Fire Department is all members from the Chief down. Commissioners are not members of the Fire Department but are in charge of the Fire District.

A town can have a contract for fire protection called a Fire Protection District.

Good Job Everyone!!

It is with deep regret to report the passing of Chief Robert Mauro of the Fairview Fire Department.

Additional information to follow.

Chief Mauro just retired in January (http://www.fairviewfire.org/)

GENERAL MUNICIPAL LAW

§ 209-i. Emergency service by volunteer firemen. 1. Whenever a

volunteer fireman is within this state, but outside the area regularly

served by the fire company or fire department of which he is a member

and has knowledge of a fire or other emergency at or near the place

where he is for the time being, such volunteer fireman may report to the

officer in command of the paid or volunteer fire company or paid or

volunteer fire department, or in command of one of the paid or volunteer

fire companies or one of the paid or volunteer fire departments, engaged

in the handling of any such fire or other emergency and, on an

individual basis, offer his services to assist such fire company or fire

department. After his services are so accepted, the volunteer fireman

shall then be entitled to all powers, rights, privileges and immunities

granted by law to volunteer firemen during the time such services are

rendered, in the same manner and to the same extent as if he were a

volunteer member of the fire company or fire department which he is

assisting, including benefits under the volunteer firemen's benefit law.

Any such commanding officer shall have power, in his discretion, to so

accept the services of a volunteer fireman unless the legislative body

of the city or the village, the board of fire commissioners or other

governing board of the fire district, or the town board of the town in

relation to (a) the fire companies serving territory outside villages

and fire districts or ( a town fire department, as the case may be, by

resolution heretofore or hereafter adopted, has forbidden the acceptance

of any such services pursuant to this section. Any such resolution shall

continue in effect until amended or repealed by the adoption of a

subsequent resolution. The officer in charge of any fire company or fire

department shall be notified promptly of the adoption of any such

resolution and of any amendment or repeal thereof.

1-a. A volunteer firefighter who, because of his residence or usual

occupation, is regularly in the area served by a volunteer fire company

or department of which he is not a member may nevertheless volunteer his

services on an on-going basis to the officer in command thereof to

assist such fire company or fire department for the purpose of assisting

such company or department's general or emergency ambulance services, or

for the purpose of assisting such fire company or fire department at a

fire or other emergency scene or for the purpose of training with such

fire company or fire department. After his services are so accepted, the

volunteer firefighter shall then be entitled to all powers, rights,

privileges and immunities granted by law to volunteer firefighters

during the time such services are rendered, in the same manner and to

the same extent as if he were a volunteer member of the fire company or

fire department which he is assisting, including benefits under the

volunteer firefighters' benefit law. Any such commanding officer when

authorized by the legislative body of the city or the village, the board

of fire commissioners or other governing board of the fire district, or

the town board of the town in relation to (a) the fire companies serving

territory outside villages and fire districts or ( a town fire

department, as the case may be, shall have power, in his discretion, to

so accept the services of a volunteer firefighter.

2. The municipal corporation or fire district which would be liable

for the negligence of any volunteer members of the fire company or fire

department which has accepted the services of the volunteer fireman

pursuant to this section shall be liable for the negligence of such

volunteer fireman while acting, after such acceptance and during the

time such services were rendered, in the discharge of his duties as a

volunteer fireman in the same manner and to the same extent as if he

were a volunteer member of the fire company or fire department which he

assisted. If the fire company or fire department which has so accepted

the services of a volunteer fireman pursuant to this section is a paid

fire company or paid fire department, such paid fire company or paid

fire department shall, for the purposes of this subdivision and section

two hundred five-b of this chapter, be deemed to be a "duly organized

volunteer fire company" within the meaning of such section two hundred

five-b.

3. As used in this section, the term "volunteer fireman" means a

"volunteer fireman" as such term is defined in section three of the

volunteer firemen's benefit law; the term "area regularly served" means

the home area of the volunteer fireman as described in subdivisions one,

two, three, four or five of section thirty of the volunteer firemen's

benefit law and, in addition, any other area served pursuant to a

contract for fire protection and the terms "fire company" and "fire

department" shall include emergency rescue and first aid squads or other

squads or units of a fire company or fire department.

It looks like funding has been restored but from what I am made aware of, "I have not seen the paperwork yet, but I believe the funding was 100%." from a reliable source.

That would be a plus, I did not know that could be done. Do you know how one would be able to credit outreach courses towards the 229? If so, please share or feel free to PM the details to me.

Thanks!!!

Scott, Contact DC Ward of Lagrange. He knows the details.

(Here is how it was explained. You would have to pay minimum wage, thus you bewcm an emplyee. GML 209-w also states"and every person who is appointed on a temporary basis or for a probationary term or on other than a permanent basis as a fire fighter of any county, city, town, village or fire district shall forfeit his position as such unless he previously has satisfactorily completed, or within the time prescribed by regulations promulgated by the governor pursuant to section one hundred fifty-nine-d of the executive law, satisfactorily completes, a fire basic training program for temporary or probationary fire fighters and is awarded a certificate by the state fire administrator attesting thereto." which covers all but permenant appointed FF's. thus this covers the 229 and CPAT as per the R@R of NYS.)

Heres what we were told from GML 209-W section 6 and interpreted as 5 full time firefighters:

6. The provisions of this section shall not apply to appointments made

by any county, city, town, village or fire district which employs five

or fewer fire fighters

But the law does not specify full time. It only says employs.

Here is how it was explained. You would have to pay minimum wage, thus you bewcm an emplyee. GML 209-w also states"and every person who is appointed on a temporary basis or for a probationary term or on other than a permanent basis as a fire fighter of any county, city, town, village or fire district shall forfeit his position as such unless he previously has satisfactorily completed, or within the time prescribed by regulations promulgated by the governor pursuant to section one hundred fifty-nine-d of the executive law, satisfactorily completes, a fire basic training program for temporary or probationary fire fighters and is awarded a certificate by the state fire administrator attesting thereto." which covers all but permenant appointed FF's. thus this covers the 229 and CPAT as per the R@R of NYS.

Seems somewhat clear.

We have Fire Police only members.

When we inquired about it several years ago. NY has paid and volunteer status. A paid on call would have to get minimum wage and do 229hours /CPAT entry training and 100 hours yearly training. This would include part time people as well.

What does Class A and Class B refer to??

If the staffing was done any other way, there would be no legal mechanism for EMS billing. Look at NYS law. Technically, the VFA, the VFAVAC and the Fire District are all separate entities. If my knowledge and research is correct, the Fire District Contracts for volunteer services with the VFA, and the career members are employees of the Fire District.

By keeping the VAC separate with separate staffing, they can continue to bill. If the fire district were to take it over, they would not be able to bill for EMS services. I would also venture to say that any other means of staffing other that contracting the way it is could violate a whole other bunch of labor laws.

Regardless of intent, let's not forget that NYS case law prohibits EMS billing by a municipality for purposes of making a profit. The argument therein would ask is the VFAVAC a municipal agency? I would infer that several different arguments would be made.

If my memory serves me correct, The VAC separated from the FD to do just that. Bill.

Just remember Lairdsville!!!! A chief was convicted because of failure to follow NFPA (1403). The standards are starting to be used in court.

This includes boots, helmets, gloves and hoods

Still in this day and age??????????

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/minneapolis-pub-fire-kills-5/19425056