Newburgher

Why would you classify them as a Firefighter?

Come right out and say who you're talking about. When the department with the "20+ minute response time" can be on the scene quicker than the one that has a firehouse just outside the city limits, it should help paint the picture of what is going on here.Before you say it'll never happen, it already did.
This business isn't a game, and if you think it is, you're cheating the citizens who deserve a professional fire department as well as your Brother Firefighters and their families who are expecting the firefighters to come home in one piece.

There is nothing wrong with having helpers. But there are a few problems that come up:
1) Do not call them firefighters if they are helpers. When a department tells the community it has a 100 firefighters (or members) it never tells them that only 10 or 20 or whatever the number is are actually going to enter a burning structure to save their kids, parents, wife, etc. The community thinks it has great protection, when maybe it needs to reconsider its system.
2) I have seen incidents with 100's of "helpers" (most were just buffing) and they stood around watching someones home burn to the ground, while 4 FIREFIGHTERS tried to stop it. If you have more helpers onscene than firefighters, then they are not helping.
3) I find accountability at most fires is very very poor at best. Throw a lot of extra helpers in and it gets worst.
No they do not have to be, but they are often much better pump operators if they have spent so time on the nob and gotten bounced around or not given enough water by the MPO.
Yes you can but what % of the dept is a firefighter and what % is a helper. While its nice to have the extra hands outside, 99% of fire depts do not have enough firefighters to do the hard part.
Which in my mind means other communities get a better response from your department, than your own community.

Maybe i'm wrong, but Newburgh is like any other FD...they give AND receive M/A.
They have their assignments set-up like most depts. with the intent of NOT stripping the entire area. Thus, some depts may feel as they are getting "skipped over."
For the 2nd Alarm last night, they called Air Guard for the FAST. This is part of the assignment and it makes perfect sense. Air Guard is a STAFFED FD and they are a quick, straight shot down 17K into the City. If i were a NFD member, i'd feel good knowing the FAST will get to the scene as fast (pun intended) as possible,
They also called for an Engine from West Point, also part of their updated alarm assignment. Again, makes perfect sense as West Point is a FULLY staffed FD. Yes it may take them awhile to get into the City, but most likely not any longer than a closer volunteer company.
Its no secret that career FD's like to utilize other career FD's when possible and its not secret why either.
There were 2 volunteer companies operating at the 2nd alarm alongside the career members of Newburgh, West Point and the Air Guard.
There were also 2 separate volunteer companies that were re-located into the City and handled several calls, including a small electrical fire.
I honestly don't see a problem with Newburgh's alarm assignments. They know what works best for them and they write up their assignment requests as such.
*Newburgher....Lieutenant, please correct me if any of my info regarding NFDs assignments were incorrect. (by the way, Hell of a job to you and your guys last night!).

Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval. So what should the solution be? You seem to know what's best for us.
BTW, is it any different than mutual aid coming through the city to get to a fire in your district?

Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval. So what should the solution be? You seem to know what's best for us.
BTW, is it any different than mutual aid coming through the city to get to a fire in your district?

Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval. So what should the solution be? You seem to know what's best for us.
BTW, is it any different than mutual aid coming through the city to get to a fire in your district?

Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval. So what should the solution be? You seem to know what's best for us.
BTW, is it any different than mutual aid coming through the city to get to a fire in your district?

Career training vs Volunteer training. Hundreds of hours that are mandated, or 10 hours that are mandated. With career personnel, you know that every firefighter is trained the exact same way as the guy sitting next to him, or the guy in your department. State standards mandate this. Volunteers, because of the "wonderful" work FASNY has done, have 0 requirements. All that is required is the federally mandated 10 hours of "on the job osha training," which varies from department to department. 10 hours... which is less then 1 hour a month of training, to go inside a burning building and be responsible for people's livelihood.
Yes, many volunteers go way above and beyond the call and perform hundreds of individual hours. No one here is doubting whether or not volunteers hearts and minds are in the right place. It takes some serious balls to run into a burning building for free.
Where in the problem lies, is that there is 0 standard as to what volunteers need. It's left up to the "authority having jurisdiction". That AHJ could mandate that all interior members need FF1, FF2, Fast, Survival, hazmat ops, confined space rescue, cat in tree rescue, aircraft rescue and vehicle rescue before they step foot on a truck to respond, or the could say, "meh, our in-house course is good enough. Here's a hand-line, this is how you open the bale, stay low, now go and put the wet stuff on the red stuff."
A set list of mandated training across the board (which is what MANY other states have done) requiring that career and volunteer personnel are trained exactly the same way would be in the best interest of everyone; volunteers, career, mutual aid, and most importantly, the citizens you took an oath to protect.

My department only allows interior certified adult members to respond to mutual aid calls. No juniors or exterior members allowed. I do not think mutual aid runs are any place for juniors to be... just my opinion.

An IC at a job, career or volley shouldn't have to find out the qualifications of the mutual aid he called.They should be qualified to perform the tasks assigned to them,have a officer able to make decisions and get the job done and not be another thing the IC has to worry about he's got enough already. Carreer depts in Westchester call each other cause they know what they're getting.

They dont need other guys and rigs and stuff...the need MONEY, and their laid off guys BACK.....

The PD rides with one officer per car usually. The Mayor and a Council Member even attended the rally. The politicians routinely support the criminals more than the PD and FD. Two council members publically, on TV, declared the Officers involved in the shooting guilty, before the investigation even began. The Grand Jury found no wrong doing, but these scumbags continue to demand the Officers lose their jobs. These spineless politicians continually yes them, and let them get away with derailing council meetings, stop traffic, block off whole streets without any kind of consequences.
This last week, with the two (so far) mob ambushes have resulted in 5 officers injured, a police dog injured by a thrown brick, and several PD cars, a Chiefs's car, and a pumper damaged. The animals stormed headquarters and the police station (same building) and threatened the crews with more violence. No wide spread round-up of these criminals is allowed. The Officers present are, rightfully so, afraid to use any kind of force, and the only person arrested Monday night ( the ringleader) was released and given an apology by the judge as soon as he appeared before the bench. No bail, ROR. Business as usual for this judge, and no way to remove him. This city is in the porceline roller coaster and spinning faster.

The PD rides with one officer per car usually. The Mayor and a Council Member even attended the rally. The politicians routinely support the criminals more than the PD and FD. Two council members publically, on TV, declared the Officers involved in the shooting guilty, before the investigation even began. The Grand Jury found no wrong doing, but these scumbags continue to demand the Officers lose their jobs. These spineless politicians continually yes them, and let them get away with derailing council meetings, stop traffic, block off whole streets without any kind of consequences.
This last week, with the two (so far) mob ambushes have resulted in 5 officers injured, a police dog injured by a thrown brick, and several PD cars, a Chiefs's car, and a pumper damaged. The animals stormed headquarters and the police station (same building) and threatened the crews with more violence. No wide spread round-up of these criminals is allowed. The Officers present are, rightfully so, afraid to use any kind of force, and the only person arrested Monday night ( the ringleader) was released and given an apology by the judge as soon as he appeared before the bench. No bail, ROR. Business as usual for this judge, and no way to remove him. This city is in the porceline roller coaster and spinning faster.

The PD rides with one officer per car usually. The Mayor and a Council Member even attended the rally. The politicians routinely support the criminals more than the PD and FD. Two council members publically, on TV, declared the Officers involved in the shooting guilty, before the investigation even began. The Grand Jury found no wrong doing, but these scumbags continue to demand the Officers lose their jobs. These spineless politicians continually yes them, and let them get away with derailing council meetings, stop traffic, block off whole streets without any kind of consequences.
This last week, with the two (so far) mob ambushes have resulted in 5 officers injured, a police dog injured by a thrown brick, and several PD cars, a Chiefs's car, and a pumper damaged. The animals stormed headquarters and the police station (same building) and threatened the crews with more violence. No wide spread round-up of these criminals is allowed. The Officers present are, rightfully so, afraid to use any kind of force, and the only person arrested Monday night ( the ringleader) was released and given an apology by the judge as soon as he appeared before the bench. No bail, ROR. Business as usual for this judge, and no way to remove him. This city is in the porceline roller coaster and spinning faster.

The PD rides with one officer per car usually. The Mayor and a Council Member even attended the rally. The politicians routinely support the criminals more than the PD and FD. Two council members publically, on TV, declared the Officers involved in the shooting guilty, before the investigation even began. The Grand Jury found no wrong doing, but these scumbags continue to demand the Officers lose their jobs. These spineless politicians continually yes them, and let them get away with derailing council meetings, stop traffic, block off whole streets without any kind of consequences.
This last week, with the two (so far) mob ambushes have resulted in 5 officers injured, a police dog injured by a thrown brick, and several PD cars, a Chiefs's car, and a pumper damaged. The animals stormed headquarters and the police station (same building) and threatened the crews with more violence. No wide spread round-up of these criminals is allowed. The Officers present are, rightfully so, afraid to use any kind of force, and the only person arrested Monday night ( the ringleader) was released and given an apology by the judge as soon as he appeared before the bench. No bail, ROR. Business as usual for this judge, and no way to remove him. This city is in the porceline roller coaster and spinning faster.

The PD rides with one officer per car usually. The Mayor and a Council Member even attended the rally. The politicians routinely support the criminals more than the PD and FD. Two council members publically, on TV, declared the Officers involved in the shooting guilty, before the investigation even began. The Grand Jury found no wrong doing, but these scumbags continue to demand the Officers lose their jobs. These spineless politicians continually yes them, and let them get away with derailing council meetings, stop traffic, block off whole streets without any kind of consequences.
This last week, with the two (so far) mob ambushes have resulted in 5 officers injured, a police dog injured by a thrown brick, and several PD cars, a Chiefs's car, and a pumper damaged. The animals stormed headquarters and the police station (same building) and threatened the crews with more violence. No wide spread round-up of these criminals is allowed. The Officers present are, rightfully so, afraid to use any kind of force, and the only person arrested Monday night ( the ringleader) was released and given an apology by the judge as soon as he appeared before the bench. No bail, ROR. Business as usual for this judge, and no way to remove him. This city is in the porceline roller coaster and spinning faster.

With Hurricane Issac now over the Keys the Capt may need help . I am willing to drive down in my pick up to check on him.I am looking for donations to fill my truck to take to him.
One D battery
10 cases of Coors Lite [Tall Cans]
5 cases of Captain Morgan
5 cases of Gray Goose
1 pint of fresh water
2 cases of Slim Jims
4 cases of Potatoe chips
2 gallons of Venison chilli
4 gallons of Manhatten clam chowder
4 loafs of Arthur ave bread

If anyone has these supplies and is willing to donate please call. I will only go down by myself as to get the supplies to him as soon as possible

That mule is badass! That would make one helluva deer hunting buggy!

Not being too familiar with the operations and manpower availability of that area, other than opservations driving through, I think they would know what's best. Having driven through today, I noticed the Village of WF had a large amount of 3 & 4 story buildings, judging from the air conditioners and shades, occupied on floors. There were even more 2 1/2 story, probably balloon frame houses. Although neither have been updated recently, according to their websites, NHFD had 6 structure fire responses in 3 years. Two were mutual aid, and the remaining 4, they had pictures of three, all in ranch homes. Hughsonville had 41 listed in a 5 years span, with only 10 in their own jurisdiction.
The point I am trying to make is, WFFD had what looked to me as plenty of "need" for an immediate responding aerial. THe other 2, not so much. While I agree that an TL is a great tool at a strip-mall fire, of which the others had plenty of strip malls, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on in that area. A Fire Department has to evaluate their own area, and purchase what THEY need, not buy stuff just because they have the tax income and want to pad their numbers by doing more mutual aid.
I would think people hanging out the 3rd and 4th floor windows would be a need for a more immediate availabiltity than a storefront in a strip mall where you are going to set up for master stream only, to save more storefronts from a fire in a building designed to burn to the ground anyway.
Hope I make some sense, and it's only my opinion.

Not being too familiar with the operations and manpower availability of that area, other than opservations driving through, I think they would know what's best. Having driven through today, I noticed the Village of WF had a large amount of 3 & 4 story buildings, judging from the air conditioners and shades, occupied on floors. There were even more 2 1/2 story, probably balloon frame houses. Although neither have been updated recently, according to their websites, NHFD had 6 structure fire responses in 3 years. Two were mutual aid, and the remaining 4, they had pictures of three, all in ranch homes. Hughsonville had 41 listed in a 5 years span, with only 10 in their own jurisdiction.
The point I am trying to make is, WFFD had what looked to me as plenty of "need" for an immediate responding aerial. THe other 2, not so much. While I agree that an TL is a great tool at a strip-mall fire, of which the others had plenty of strip malls, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on in that area. A Fire Department has to evaluate their own area, and purchase what THEY need, not buy stuff just because they have the tax income and want to pad their numbers by doing more mutual aid.
I would think people hanging out the 3rd and 4th floor windows would be a need for a more immediate availabiltity than a storefront in a strip mall where you are going to set up for master stream only, to save more storefronts from a fire in a building designed to burn to the ground anyway.
Hope I make some sense, and it's only my opinion.

Not being too familiar with the operations and manpower availability of that area, other than opservations driving through, I think they would know what's best. Having driven through today, I noticed the Village of WF had a large amount of 3 & 4 story buildings, judging from the air conditioners and shades, occupied on floors. There were even more 2 1/2 story, probably balloon frame houses. Although neither have been updated recently, according to their websites, NHFD had 6 structure fire responses in 3 years. Two were mutual aid, and the remaining 4, they had pictures of three, all in ranch homes. Hughsonville had 41 listed in a 5 years span, with only 10 in their own jurisdiction.
The point I am trying to make is, WFFD had what looked to me as plenty of "need" for an immediate responding aerial. THe other 2, not so much. While I agree that an TL is a great tool at a strip-mall fire, of which the others had plenty of strip malls, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on in that area. A Fire Department has to evaluate their own area, and purchase what THEY need, not buy stuff just because they have the tax income and want to pad their numbers by doing more mutual aid.
I would think people hanging out the 3rd and 4th floor windows would be a need for a more immediate availabiltity than a storefront in a strip mall where you are going to set up for master stream only, to save more storefronts from a fire in a building designed to burn to the ground anyway.
Hope I make some sense, and it's only my opinion.

Thanks.
I still want to buy this one..LOL...man would THAT make a badass treestand!

As long as your not mentioned in the "Police Blotter", your all set.

Who said this roof was going to give? M' ave I'm not talking about all fires or all the time. But I am talking about this fire and when arial's are at such a low angle that climbing them is less than safe. And of course if the roof might be undermined due to fire don't go on it. Or work out of a bucket. Btw working off of a stick to cut a roof is no picnic, with it bouncing and the temptation to side load it. You could throw off its structural integrity. For "this" fire and those like it I'd rather climb a reliable ground ladder 24 to 30 ft up than an arial 40 to 60 ft out. Now were not talking about rescues cause if we are I might do something different but thats another thread.