v85

What was the very specific application being tested?

Amazing.

Congratulations Lt. Col./Sgt. Baaden and thank you for your service

I don't know how far you want to take this, or what your willing to risk; but if this has been going on for 10+ years, maybe an anonymous call to the media might be in order.

I agree.

Go to HR, the chief's office, the mayor's office, the union and whoever else you need to

This kind of behavior CAN NOT be tolerated in the emergency services. This "firefighter" needs a one way ticket to the unemployment line

Also, I thought there was research out their that said CISD, or at least mandatory CISD ended up doing more harm than good?

I know several people wrote into JEMS after they did a pro-CISD article bringing this fact up

EDIT: As far as the ADHD comment was concerned, I know of at least one specific case where someone was on medication for ADHD, didn't disclose it, and went on to serve honorably in the US Army ABN during Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation Enduring Freedom. Had they disclosed the fact they were on medication as an elementary school child, they would have been kept out of the Army.

I just don't think it is right, that one has a better chance of being hired with criminal arrests (that were plea-bargained to violations) as a teenager or young adult, then with having seen a psych doctor as a small child

Unfortunately it seems we have a long way to go with ending the stigma of mental illness in emergency services.

I have seen people fail psych tests to become police/firefighters etc because they took ADHD medication or saw a counselor for a parent's divorce etc at age 7.

Also, what happens what happens when someone who is a good police officer/firefighter/EMT has CIS stress issues and can't work the road anymore, espeically in volunteer agencies without retirement? Will the department be willing to find an inside position for them? or are they just dismissed?

Anyone know anything about any of the other counties? I took mine in Orange on the same date

Why did NYC have to come up to the TZB again?

Other than the Coast Guard, the NYPD is the only other area agency that has a 24/7 Helicopter that is an Air-Sea rescue that, besides a helicopter crew, has divers on stand-by 24/7. Besides that helo, I believe they have 5 regular helicopters and 2-3 of those are staffed 24/7.

If anyone else had that at the time and was immediately available, I am sure they would have been called.

I believe Helicopper said that WCPD is not equipped for Hoist and Air/Sea rescue operations.

Rockland's helicopter is listed as "Long Term Out of Service" on the Rockland County Online CAD System

The only other agency around here that has air rescue capability is the New York State Police, and I'm not sure if they are 24/7 or what

I think they can fine you BECAUSE it is a private lot.

A business owner or property owner can have any rules they like, provided they aren't illegal or discriminatory.

Now, how they would collect those fines is another matter

I'm guessing that this was bought after Hurricane Sandy with all of the nursing home and hospital evacuations.

Orange County BOCES offers this program:

www.ouboces.org/CTE/CareerAcademies/firescience.cfm

Upon successful completion of the program, students are eligible to sit for the New York State Firefighter 1 Certification Exam. Program follows the New York State Office of Fire Prevention and Control Curriculum:
• Firefighter I
• Scene Support Operations
• Hazardous Materials Operations
• Confined Space Safety
• Defense Against Weapons of Mass Destruction Awareness

Certification Opportunities:

• Firefighter I
• American Heart Association CPR, First Aid and AED
• New York State Emergency Management Office Certification: Incident Command System (ICS-100)

Dispatch can not give orders to people, unless they are sworn officers. Even if they are sworn officers, they would have to identify themselves as such and make it clear that they are giving the order as a police/peace officer

This is kind of a lousy way to look at this response. It may just be my experience in the fire service, but too many of us look at automatic fire alarms as bogus runs, or nothing to worry about. This department may not have enough manpower to handle structure fires and as a result they make sure they have it for fire alarms, because, why would a fire alarm activate usually?? Because of smoke or fire right? Its not always going to be a false alarm. This department would rather be prepared in case it is a fire. Whats wrong with that?

I used to agree with this but it doesnt teach people anything lasting. Look at 9/11 and the outpooring of support firefighters received for months after it, because of the major loss of life. What about now? Years later? Everyone forgets over time.

And lets look at how many firefighters die because of cancer, yet we still refuse to wear our air masks for every fire, including car fires and overhaul at structure fires? Loosing firefighters doesnt send any message other then grief.

Nothing is wrong with the response. But should it have required 3 departments? or should each department be able to handle at least an initial attack self-sufficently?

I really don't think any of this has to do with I/CAD. I worked in a system that used I/CAD and it worked flawlessly for us, mind you our call volume was much less then NYC's.

If anything it is a UCT problem.

In part yes. Since FF1 is a prerequisite to AVET.

If I am trapped in my car, it would be very nice to know that the people who are extricating me know what to do when the car catches fire.

Does any FD have enough members that they can affort to specilize to such a degree that theycan only go on a small percentage of the calls?

I see a lot of depts that run about 500 - 750 calls per year. 60% are EMS (might be nice to be trained in that too), so now we are down to 200- 300 non EMS calls. Another 15% are AFA or 75 - 110 more calls, which based on this thread many of your members may not be qualified to respond to. So now we are down to about 100-200 calls, which maybe 10% include, CO, Odor of Gas, Fuel Spill, unknow odor, "wash downs, etc. If they are not certified (which if they have not made FFII orat least HM OPS ) it is illegal forthem to go on these 50-75 calls. So we are down to about 50 - 100 calls per year in the average VFD. They include wires down, general emergencies, and MVA. So do you really need a member who can only go on 15% of your calls (and based on the above prerequisite can not do that either)?

Yes, it makes sense to us, but I don't think the average civilian (who is voting people into and out of office understand that)

Also, these are the prerequisites for AVET:

But doesn't it only matter that you are qualified in what task you are doing that came into question.

For example, in an extrication, if the people operating are AVET + Rescue Tech certified. Does it matter if they are FF1, FF2, or any other suppression cert?

They do not know that the when the dept. claims to have hundreds of volunteers and that they are saving millions, that they often can not get a team of interior members to an incident.

There was an automatic alarm in Orange County today.

Responding were 3 different fire departments

The district the call was in; an automatic mutual aid district; another district with their ladder standing by in quarters; and a county coordinator. For a residential alarm.

You don't have the manpower to handle an AFA, without excessive mutual aid?

This is the real reason I don't think there will be a standardized training course in NYS for a very long time:

It has nothing to do with home rule, consolidation (or lack thereof) or anything else. The reason is simple, I don't think the general public cares that much about it.

If John Q. Public's house is on fire, does he really care if the firefighters all have Bloodborne Pathogens and Workplace Violence training?

If Suzie Q. Public's car is wrapped around a tree, does she care if the people cutting her out have FF1+AVET or Scene Support+AVET? Does she even know what those classes are?

If their autistic child runs off in to the woods, do you think they give one iota of concern to what kind of firefighting training the searchers have?

All the public really cares about is they call 911, and a red truck with flashing lights shows up and fixes the problem.

Without them (public) caring, I unfortunately don't see anything changing, especially in this day of 2% tax caps and words like "austerity" and "sequestration" becoming part of our daily language

Because individual agencies can add to training. They can not take away from it

In my department OSHA and Interior status are two different things.

OSHA means you have completed BBP/HAZMAT, Fit Test, SCBA qualification and a certain number of drills. These members are qualified to wear an SCBA (i.e. HAZMAT, Car Fires, other calls where you need to be on air)

Interior means you have completed both the above OSHA training and Firefighter I, and are qualified to enter a structure on fire

I would guess the arguments against would be either:

1. Exterior Scene Support Members who feel that they will be coerced into going interior (i.e. "We are getting rid of exteriors, either full firefighter or good luck and good riddance")

2. Members who didn't see the (this does NOT mean one single way of completing the training) and think that they will be sent away to a full-time academy which would be incompatable with their jobs.

3. Members who think they are in general too busy to train.

4. Certain veteran members "I've been fighting fires since your parents were toddlers, I don't need some fancy training class to tell me what to do"

5. Fools. "That stuff only happens in big cities, why should I train for something that might possibly happen once in 100 years"

Yes

Anyone with the title of firefighter should have like training.

I am fire police with my department and I will not identify myself as a firefighter because I have no training as such. I think the same should go for others who don't engage in firefighting activities.

Yes, there are definitely a few of those. I've known of people who were on the other side of the county sign in for calls, because they were "available" to respond for second calls.

Yes, exterior "firefighters" get the same LOSAP as interior firefighters.

Now, there are certain cases where I am not opposed to that. For example, interior firefighters who were injured LOD and can now only perform exterior functions, fire police (because they have a hazardous job as well), and similar type positions.

I do not think that exterior only "social members" (i.e. the ones you never see at a fire scene but are always signing in at the station, should get the points)

That whole WTC command is another issue...

600 cops for a building they don't have primary jurisdiction in anyway.