dwcfireman

Too old school. LOL. Now if that was the new body style yes.

I'm going to focus on the waste part of the issue. Why do we pay for (again, the source of the money is irrelevant) a piece of apparatus that will sit and collect dust and rust for it to be used once in a blue moon? If the WCDES METU was granted for the sole purpose of evacuating nursing homes and similar facilities, does that mean that we actually have a problem evacuating said facilities? Do we have to evacuate these facilities that often that we need a vehicle SOLELY for that purpose?
We've reacted wildly after every terror attack and every natural disaster to get the best, shiniest equipment, yet a lot of this equipment ends up sitting idle. If we have a METU, why can't it be used in MCI situations, not just to be able to get the motor running every now and then, but to use that darn thing? And couldn't it be part of a larger, regional task force, where it and similar units from around the area can work as a team to respond to large scale MCI calls?

Thanks for responding quite accurately on how to implement, and I will Quote " Probably the dumbest thing I've read on this site in over ten years, impressive " the use of a bus to transport. I will now just sit back and continue to read more great ideas on this site and add my dumbness to the conversations!!!!!

I have an idea....bear with me here....
Department A responds to a 10-75 with three engines and a ladder, all staffed with 4 (including the drivers). The Chief strikes out a second alarm for manpower. Department B sends an engine and ladder with 3 each, and Department C only gets an engine out with 4. However, 12 firefighters are sitting in Dept A's HQ because there are no more rigs to roll. What if just ONE of these departments had a transport bus (with a compartment to secure tools and SCBA (or already equipped with said equipment)), and was used as a troop transport? Couldn't that bus go to Dept A and pick up those firefighters, bring them to the scene, then rotate around the area departments to bring in manpower?
See, not every department would need a bus, just the same as not everyone having a mobile cascade unit. This is why we have mutual aid! If I have the MSU, a neighbor has a 12 passenger van, another has a light truck, and another has an LDH vehicle, through mutual aid we can share our resources.
Now, if your scene is blocked in an no additional apparatus can get in anyway, why not have a department with a bus or van shuttle in more manpower? You could even use the bus/van to solely transport firefighters from a staging area to the scene. I really don't see why people are getting upset about any department responding with a bus. It's a usable resource.

What, no side discharge?

The problem I see is too many people use the FAST as their reserve company and don't have more people waiting in staging to go to work.

People gotta stop calling just enough to barely get it done and call enough to get it done safely and efficiently.

It seems like everyone is ignoring the side-by-side example of a consolidated volunteer department that sits right next door to the town in which this fire occurred. The town of Somers and the Town of Lewisboro have very similar constructs but have gone in opposite directions in terms of a consolidated department vs individual departments. Somers is about the same size as the Town of Lewisboro. They have 4 fire houses spread across town but operate as one department, with one chain of command, one set of SOPs, one fire district and consolidated resources. Conversely, in the Town of Lewisboro, they have the Golden's Bridge Fire Department, the South Salem Fire Department, and the Vista Fire Department (and the Lewisboro Ambulance Corps). Each of these departments are completely independent of one another and have their own chain of command, separate Fire District, separate equipment and their own set of SOGs.
In my opinion the consolidated volunteer department makes more sense for the following reasons:
The town of Lewisboro has 3 Mid-Heavy Rescue Units (Counting Rescue 24 may it rest in peace)...All of NYC has 5! The town of Lewisboro has 7+ Chief Vehicles. Each department in Lewisboro has at least 2 "Class A" engines so that they can stay in service when one goes out for maintenance. 90% of the time each engine rolls without a full crew anyway (thats if they can even get two engines out the door) Shortage of Officers. When I joined the fire service 10 years ago Vista Fire Department had 3 chiefs and a multiple captains, Lieutenants and Foremen, etc...now they are down to 3 officers (a chief, a captain, and a lieutenant). I believe that GBFD currently operates with two of their Lt. positions vacant. Moreover, many departments' by-laws are constantly being set aside to allow people who don't meet the professional qualifications to hold office. In many instances, members are being promoted to officer positions after being a member for only a year and having never been first-due to a car fire let alone a structure fire. What it all comes down to here is that you are ultimately going to get the same resources to a fire in both towns. In Somers you will probably get 20-30 members town-wide who will all respond to a daytime incident. In Lewisboro, you will get 10 members from the "host" department and 5-6 from each of the other 2 departments in town via mutual aid.
The differences however are major!
There will be a delay in resources because you have to wait for the host department to get on scene to dispatch mutual aid...they will have to operate with 4-6 people for at least the first 10-15 minutes until mutual aid can respond to their firehouses and then to the scene. There will be way too many Chiefs on scene because there will be 3 from each of the other departments in town...and not enough indians because anyone who is even remotely good will be a chief already (side note...I think Croton Falls had command on this last Goldens Bridge fire and at their firehouse fire last year). The manpower from the three independent departments will be less familiar with the equipment and personnel from the other departments than that of the one consolidated department. 3 sets of SOGs vs one consolidated set. I thought the side-by-side comparison may help clear up the confusion that a consolidated department would have to be paid. The Town of Somers could probably have ended up as the Granite Springs, Amawalk, Lincoldale, and Town of Somers fire departments had they wanted to go that route...for all I know they may have been at some point way back when.

You know the consolidation of volunteer departments without the addition of any paid personnel could be a significant improvement over the completely arcane system we have now. Everyone immediately assumes that consolidation implies paid but it doesn't! How about merging 4-5 districts that serve the same town? Or the countless villages that rely heavily on each other and are smaller than a postage stamp.
Imagine a River Towns or Sound Shore or North County Fire District with several former departments under one hierarchy. Economies of scale in purchasing, reduction of apparatus numbers (and the ability to have "spares", something virtually non-existent outside the big cities), higher personnel counts, standard training, administration and operations, to name a few.
A member department with strengths in one area can help one weak in that area and so on. Officers can be vetted from a larger pool of candidates improving the quality, competition, and ultimately performance. Chiefs will oversee a bigger department giving them more experience. Budgets can be consolidated perhaps reducing the overall cost to the taxpayer.
There's a lot to be said for consolidating and it doesn't mean adding ONE paid guy.

This discussion, and this website, will often include conversations about operations and tactics. If we can't critique (constructively) operations of our own, or other departments, we'll learn nothing.
Emergency operations from New York City to Peoria deserve analysis and critique. No event is without mistake or action that could be evaluated after the fact. What are we supposed to say? The fire went out, great job guys?
For my own part of this discussion; I was not there, I did not take part. That limits my ability to comment, but photos and resources called raised some points for discussion. I for one will ALMOST never question the request for additional resources. Call more than ya need and send'em home if you find your self in better position to manage the incident with units on scene. At this particular fire, it looks as though the first due department was faced with several adverse conditions and they summoned more resources to overcome them. Fine. I did question the need for members to be operating on a peaked roof, covered in snow, to facilitate vertical ventilation. Vert. Venting is not always particularly beneficial in a PD and the risk of putting members on the roof seems unnecessary. In my dept., peaked roof ventilation is accomplished from the bucket of a tower ladder while the member is belted in. Clearly there is decades of operational experience that calls for such caution. Chainsaws, additionally, are THE. MOST. DANGEROUS. TOOL. we use.
I hope this discussion continues with focus on an, over-all, job well done. However,we can all improve and this is how.
**Discussions on staffing, consolidation and general resources is one that needs a great deal more attention than it's getting, but lets focus here on a single operation, it's merit's and detraction's, and not something fundamental that effects the whole fire service.

I don't know the answer either, but I would prefer that FAST sticks around until after overhaul is complete. The structure is quite compromised at this point, and it's nice to have some extra people in place in case something does happen.

I thought it was until there is no longer an IDLH atmosphere, which is why Safety Officers actually have to go into the building to evaluate. That being said, I think there are many hazards that are still present even when the air is breathable, but these standards have their root in respiratory standards.
I once saw a Safety Officer go inside with no helmet, he had a pack but not wearing the mask, and he was metering the air telling other guys to mask up it wasn't safe yet. So maybe that's not the best way to see how long to hold FAST.

Consolidation.............................

I don't know the answer either, but I would prefer that FAST sticks around until after overhaul is complete. The structure is quite compromised at this point, and it's nice to have some extra people in place in case something does happen.

I don't know the answer either, but I would prefer that FAST sticks around until after overhaul is complete. The structure is quite compromised at this point, and it's nice to have some extra people in place in case something does happen.

I know of a fire in Avon, NY (the CRC fire a few months ago) that used 28 tankers on 2 fill sites! It's amazing what you can do with tankers when you know what you're doing......practice, practice, practice!!
[i'll look for the pics from that scene in the morning. I have no idea where I stored them]

I know of a fire in Avon, NY (the CRC fire a few months ago) that used 28 tankers on 2 fill sites! It's amazing what you can do with tankers when you know what you're doing......practice, practice, practice!!
[i'll look for the pics from that scene in the morning. I have no idea where I stored them]

I know of a fire in Avon, NY (the CRC fire a few months ago) that used 28 tankers on 2 fill sites! It's amazing what you can do with tankers when you know what you're doing......practice, practice, practice!!
[i'll look for the pics from that scene in the morning. I have no idea where I stored them]

I don't believe that any fire departments have "extra" units. They may have "more" units but the politicians make sure nobody has extra anything!

I believe that I heard it was in the neighborhood of 400K but don't hold me to that. It is NOT first-hand info.

Just looking at the pictures....just....wow! I didn't listen to much of the podcast (because I get distracted too easily), but just looking at the pictures and see what a beating our gear can take. I'm just in awe. Obviously when someone's life is on the line we take extraordinary measures to make the save, and it's absolutely amazing what conditions that we, as firefighters, can survive solely based on what our PPE can withstand.

Just asking, not looking for trouble........If Yonkers is fully committed to an alarm and needs station coverage, I understand that New Rochelle may have 'extra' units to spare, but why wouldn't they call FDNY rather than
Greenville and Eastchester which have less 'extra' units.
Barry?

Took my CDL road test in an 1988 Autocar. Beast of a truck!
Courtesy of the Oshkosh website, this is what we're using at HPN for heavy snow removal. It's amazing how far the technology has come along, and this thing is a beast! And, yes, it's all wheel steering.

Interesting topic as an 'outsider" to the local politics and policies. It appears there are many rules/policies that dictate the use of equipment and personnel during MCI's and "disasters", I'm surprised someone doesn't have the ability to suspend some rules in these cases? At some point we are withholding resources just in case they're needed for their primary mission. No doubt there's more political issues where there are more people and money, but up in my neck of the woods, we can suspend most EMS rules (with sound reasoning and judgement) in the cases of an MCI where the suspension of said rule(s) will benefit the mission.

dwcfireman , the S
iccard was bought from the saleman from Siccard after the county turned down the unit. It was bought by the county for the airport [HPN]. Port Chester picked it up at the county garage on Brockway place in White Plains.