dwcfireman

1) my neighbor needs help putting out the garbage and mowing thelawn andthere are many others just like them.
2) I agree with you about the "Label" of firefighter. I have a big problem with a dept claiming to the public it has 100 FIREFIGHTERS, when we start counting and find 20 have retired to Fl. but still make the annual dinner, another 10 are in "skilled nursing facilities" and 40 of them are exterior only ("Support Personnel") That means you only have 30 "Firefighters" and 25 of them work out of the area.
I do not mind if a VFD is honest to itself and the public. But Isee deptslike the one above claiming to the public that they are protecting them...Its great to help your neighbors, if you are actually helping them.

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!!
Train train train when you think you have had enough train more
again just my thoughts

If you want to help your neighbor without training I suggest you join the Elks Club or the Lions. The stakes are much lower there. "Firefighting is an ultra hazardous occupation" and the neighbors you want to help (as well as your Brother and Sister Firefighters) DESERVE Fire Protection in line with the NATIONAL industry standard.
Hell, even CERT has a minimum national training standard, yet most fire departments rag on CERT members as wannabe's. But they took the time to train to a standard. I suppose they shouldn't have to either, just because they want to help their neighbor?

Every on posting is all in the YES vote (including myself)...I want to hear from a Nay-sayer as to why you would not want a NYS standard on becoming a firefighter. Why did you vote no?
p.s. I respect your opinions, but I'm just curious to see your side of the arguement.

I think what Bnechis meant is that this wasn't a plane in distress, a situation where units can begin to stage prior to the actual landing.

If we could predict when crashes will occur, the response time would be zero.

Every on posting is all in the YES vote (including myself)...I want to hear from a Nay-sayer as to why you would not want a NYS standard on becoming a firefighter. Why did you vote no?
p.s. I respect your opinions, but I'm just curious to see your side of the arguement.

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

FAST or RIT is not designed to be a function handled by a specialized unit or group. It is essential that every firefighter be trained in all facets of firefighter rescue. Often incidents that cause firefighters to require emergency rescue, occur early in the incident (well before a county team or specialized team from a mutual aid department can gather a crew and respond). This means that the rescue of the downed or trapped firefighter(s) will have to be initiated by the firefighters who are already on the scene if they are to have a chance at a good outcome.

A bit ironic since many districts are imposing and enforcing strict internet rules, like not posting calls to Facebook!

All the time and money wasted putting these in is what's getting to me. It would be nice if the federal government (or any government for that matter) learned to think things through before acting. How could they not see this coming?

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14494

All the time and money wasted putting these in is what's getting to me. It would be nice if the federal government (or any government for that matter) learned to think things through before acting. How could they not see this coming?

All the time and money wasted putting these in is what's getting to me. It would be nice if the federal government (or any government for that matter) learned to think things through before acting. How could they not see this coming?

A bit ironic since many districts are imposing and enforcing strict internet rules, like not posting calls to Facebook!

All the time and money wasted putting these in is what's getting to me. It would be nice if the federal government (or any government for that matter) learned to think things through before acting. How could they not see this coming?

A bit ironic since many districts are imposing and enforcing strict internet rules, like not posting calls to Facebook!

IMO at least, the typical TeleSqurt unit is really nothing more than an enhanced engine. Although you could put some "truck" equipment on it and the personnel arriving on it could perform "truck work" at a scene, the apparatus isn't a "truck" or really even a "quint" for that matter. The typical TeleSqurt only carries a ground ladder compliment consistent with that of an engine. The aerial device is typically not designed for use in the same fashion that the typical aerial ladder is and tends to be shorter since it's pretty much intended to only be an elevated master stream and not a platform for working or rescue.
Regardless of being rural, I think it would depend a lot on how the apparatus will be used as to whether a Quint or TeleSqurt is the better option. If all you want is the elevated master stream, then the TeleSqurt would probably be a better option in terms of cost, vehicle size and weight. If you want the ability to actually climb an aerial device to reach an upper floor or roof for rescue or to perform work, then the Quint would probably be the better option.

Bring back the 70's style Blue and Gold
lol

Well, a lot of how you'll feel would be based on what you know to be the knowledge and abilities of the guys on those trucks. If you have a solid group capable of getting after it, you may not feel all that bad. I work in a small career department that easily sees our share of working fires. I've been to numerous fires with the staffing you mention, but arriving with one engine and one quint. Our backup is orimarily our off-duty personnel and sometimes mutual aid companies too depending on the severity of the fire. We've knocked down many a good fire before the cavalry arrives.

The key as I mentioned is everyone being experienced, well trained, knowing what their role is and executing to the best of their ability. In our case, at least on my shift, we know the play and the common audibles that might be called and can easily adjust to them on the fly. It's definitely more challenging than having the "right" amount of staffing and arguably "less safe", but at the same time I enjoy the "multi-tasking" we get to do. It isn't ideal, but you quickly learn how to prioritize the "normal" fireground tasks for the staffing you have and it sure as heck isn't "text book", but we're having good results.

Interestingly enough, my Health Department just hired a hoarding specialist on a grant to work with The Fire Marshals, Building Officials and PD to identify these houses and get the people the help they need. Might not be a bad idea to see if your HD has the same.

And again - I reiterate - DONT BE AFRAID TO TAKE "CRAP" OUT OF THE HOUSE! "Dumping the tank" on the piles of clothes, couches, matresses, and stuff isnt enough sometimes. Use trash hooks, shovels, and hands to make certain!
It will help to avoid such embarassing events such as missing a body, or a rekindle.

In a related story yesterday, Barack Obama signed an executive order raising the pay of Joe Biden, Members of Congress & all federal workers -- costing taxpayers $11 billion over the next 10 years.
The VP and Congress should get merit based pay (meaning they owe us).There are hard working federal employees who deserve raises, particularly if those federal workers include members of the armed forces.

I know my number isn't accurate, but for 2am it seemed okay with me
It all falls back on training and knowing what you're doing inside.

From what I can see, images from the scene show vehicles in the driveway. If the first unit(s) on scene CANNOT confirm that everyone is out of the structure, then aggressive primary and secondary searches need to be conducted to CONFIRM that everyone is out. ONLY if the structure is compromised beyond the point that would put firefighters in danger (i.e. going to an exterior operations) should any type of search be cancelled or cut short.
As far as overhaul goes, this is not the point where firefighter should be finding a body. Firefighters need to be trained to find vicitms while conducting primary and secondary searches, and rescues should be (due to training) more succesful. Overhaul is supposed to serve as the final stage of the fire fight, and this is where firefighters SHOULD be extinguishing hot spots and creating a safe environment for investigators. I do understand that there are some circumstances where victims could be missed, like in large area rooms, unreachable and confined spaces, and unusal areas (attics, basement closets, boiler rooms, etc.).
In my opinion, the reasons firefighters miss victims during their searches is due to a lack of training and the lack of experience. Some departments may not have the means to train properly, but it is important to train firefiighters in fire-like conditions to find victims. My department, for example, doesn't have the means to provide excellent in-house search and resue drills because of the facility that we have. This is where the officers have to become creative to teach the skills necessary for this function. On the other side, since fires happen ever so decreasingly, younger firefighters just don't gain the experience to conduct a thorough search. Thankfully, fires don't happen as often anymore, but on-the-job training and hands-on experience is the best way to learn. The more you do it, the better you become. Example: I'm usually on the truck, and usually end up on the roof. I can vertically ventialate any building in my sleep. But, 99% of those fires never required a search because all of the occupants were accounted for (just pointing out that some tasks are not completed because they are not necessary, which also leads to inefficiency on the fireground).
So, what do we need to do to fix this? Train more? Conduct more unnecessary searches? It's hard to say. You can train all day with the plastic Res-Q-Randy doll, but it's not the same as actually finding a victim in a raging inferno.