JohnnyOV

Yeah like the vendor that reported the Times Square vehicle borne device should have MYOB. Thats why if you see something, you should say something.

Date: 12/9/10
Time: 05:35
Location: 3901 Gomer Court (Off of E Main St) Town of Yorktown "Jefferson Valley Collision"
Frequencies: 46.26 / 453.275 / Fire 17 / FG 1 / MVAC
LMFD Units Operating: 2261, 2262, E253, E258, L10, 69B1
YHFD Units Operating: 2533, E270 FAST
MFFD Units Operating: 19-6-1
MFD Units Operating: 18-2-1, 18-7-1
CVFD Units Operating: 2132, E231
PVFD Units Operating:
YVAC Units Operating: 86B1?, 34 Medics
SFD EMS Units Operating: 80B2, U88 (RAC)
WCDES Units Operating: Bat 16, C&O Zone 4 w/ 1404
Weather Conditions: Cold, 21 Degrees
Description Of Incident: Working fire in 30' x 50' 2 1/2 story dwelling attached to 100' x 100' auto body shop
Reporters: Remember585
Writer: Remember585
LoHud Article
Relocated to Mohegan HQ: 2341, 2342, TL45 (Peekskill FD) & 88B1 (Cortlandt VAC)
05:35 - L10, E253, E258 dispatched to reported structure fire. 60 Control advising multiple calls on it.
05:39 - 60 Control advising responding units one person possibly trapped per YPD.
05:40 - E253 reports fully involved house fire, still not on scene.
05:41 - 10-75 transmitted. E253 has a propane tank that already "let go."
05:41 - 60 Control dispatching Yorktown FAST, Mahopac Falls Cascade, Mohegan VAC & Bat 17 to the scene.
05:42 - E253 to 2262, fully involved and reports from units on scene all occupants are out.
05:43 - 2261 requesting a Ladder to HQ and send one Tanker from "somewhere."
05:45 - Peekskill TL45 dispatched to cover Mohegan HQ.
05:46 - 60 Control dispatching Battalion 10. 2261 cancelling the Tanker.
05:48 - E270 responding. 2262 requesting Con Ed Electric to the scene. Battalion 16 dispatched.
05:49 - 2262 reports an auto body shop on first floor with a residence above, 30' x 50'.
05:50 - 2262 requesting Con Ed to "step it up."
05:52 - 19-6-1 responding.
05:54 - "L10, as soon as the PD car moves, I want you to set up in the rear," per 2262.
05:55 - "E258 to the hydrant, send me water!"
05:56 - "2262 to the hydrant on E Main St, shut it down, I have a situation." 19-6-1 on location.
05:57 - "2261 to 60 Control dispatch an Engine from Mahopac, we need manpower here."
05:59 - E270 on location.
06:02 - Units reporting partial collapse, E258 has no water, 2262 reports "we're working on it."
06:03 - "2261 to all units, switch to Fire Ground 1."
06:05 - 18-2-1 responding. 69B1 transporting 1 to WMC.
06:06 - 2261 requesting Yorktown Highway Department for salt, "we're falling all over the place."
06:12 - 18-2-1 on location.
06:18 - Bat 16 on location, 2261 requesting the C&O Team to the scene. DC41 reports "Ladder operation is underway."
06:19 - C&O Zone 4 dispatched. Mohegan VAC, 39M2, U18 dispatched to an EMS call.
06:23 - Bat 16 requesting an update on the electric company, please put a 2nd call in, we have a hazardous condition.
06:25 - 60 Control advising Con Ed crew assigned, should be there in 15-20 minutes.
06:28 - 60 Control advising Bat 16 that Con Ed reports they have a rep on scene.
06:29 - Bat 16 requesting run down of EMS units on scene, 60 Control reports a YVAC rig and Yorktown Medic.
06:31 - Unknown unit reporting, "not enough pressure on this line over here."
06:32 - Bat 16 requesting 1 Ambulance to cover Mohegan and 1 Ambulance to the scene.
06:34 - Cortlandt VAC dispatched to Mohegan HQ for coverage.
06:38 - New Channel 4 Chopper showing live video, fire appears to be darkening down.
06:41 - Bat 16 reports units making progress, exposure issue is a 100 x 100 body shop, 4 L/S/O and 1 Ladder Pipe.
06:44 - 2261 requesting two ambulances total on scene at all times. YVAC is transporting unknown #.
06:47 - News Channel 4 Chopper reports business is "Jefferson Valley Collision."
06:48 - Bat 16 requesting Somers Rehab to the scene. Carmel VAC & Somers EMS have been requested to the scene.
06:49 - 1404 responding.
06:53 - 60 Control reports that YVAC is going to be transporting 3 with smoke inhalation shortly.
06:54 - Bat 16 requesting Con Ed Gas to the scene.
07:06 - 1404 on location.
07:07 - 60 Control advising Bat 16 that 80B2, 18-7-1 on scene. Bat 16 reports exterior operation, fire darkening down, making progress.
07:22 - U88 (RAC) responding.
07:31 - U88 on location.
07:36 - 2261 declaring the fire under control.
07:39 - Bat 16 requesting Code Enforcement to the scene.
08:01 - 2261 reports they have an excavator coming, the building has to be torn down for total extinguishment.
08:02 - 2261 requesting manpower from Continental Village & Putnam Valley to the scene.
08:15 - 2132 on location.
08:16 - E232 responding. (Originally called in as E231, later corrected they were in E232).
08:27 - 24-2-1 responding.
09:13 - Yorktown FD units released.
10:00 - C&O units returning.
10:09 - Bat 16 reports Red Cross is on location.
10:15 - Bat 16 going in service.
10:28 - Continental Village units in service.
10:45 - 2261 requesting Yorktown Water Department to the scene.
11:00 - Mahopac & Mahopac Falls FD units in service.
11:08 - E254 & TL45 responding on a CO investigation.
12:05 - All units clear from the scene. TL45 released from standby.

This is something we will be drilling on and attempting to enhance in our department in the near future. Our goal is to completely eliminate the "unit on location / unit on location with nothing showing" and thats it transmission.
I along with pretty much everyone else would love to hear a full size up from the first arriving unit, however, a simple size up on arrival, and a detailed size up later on, if necessary, into the incident is the most appropriate form. This clears up air time for units signing on, calling on location, and other radio transmissions important to the function of the fire ground operation and pre-arrival assignment planning. Additionally, the simple size up also gives you generally a good idea of what type of building you'll be dealing with based on the location of the alarm. I know in my district, anything off of Gambelli Dr. we'll be dealing with multi million dollar McMansions, and anything off Yorkhill Rd / Hawthorne Dr be 2 story, wood frame, split level homes. Knowing your district is key to getting a fuzzy idea of what you might be shown at the time of dispatch.
I'll use my department as an example:
On dispatch to a residential alarm:
"Engine 273 is on location, establishing command. 2 story, wood frame single dwelling. Nothing showing at this time, out investigating."
"Engine 273 to 60-Control, burnt food on the stove, all units can return."
On dispatch to a MVA:
"Rescue 16 is on location establishing command one car over turned in the southbound lane, we'll be out investigating"
"Rescue 16 on an update, we have one car overturned, 1 patient pinned in the vehicle. Extrication will be commencing at this time, have EMS stage IFO the accident scene, have Engine 270 park behind the rescue and bring their portable unit and large spreaders to the drivers side of the involved car."
"Rescue 16 One (insert gender here) patient has been extricated at this time, in care of EMS, and will be transported ALS to the Medical Center"
On dispatch to a fire:
"Engine 271 is on location establishing command, give me my 10-75 assignment, I have fire showing on the first floor of a 2 story wood frame companies going to work."
"Car 2531 to 60-control, I am on location and assuming command. I have fire in a 2 story, 50x 20, occupied single family dwelling on the first floor, AB corner. Two 1.75 L/S/O, water is being place on the fire at this time, truck companies are preforming primary searches and opening up at this time. Have EMS stage at the corner of Kensington and Wellington and walk their equipment down."

BVFD - Get your nose out of the books and use some common sense!
1. Fire in an auto body shop. We know there's more hazards in these facilities then, say, most private dwellings. (I say most, some are ticking time bombs of God knows what). Using copious amounts of water will put it out. It's not rocket science. Remember your basic rules of engagement, Rescue, Exposures, Containment, Extinguishment and Overhaul. The neighboring house was saved, the original building was well advanced before anyone called it in. They all went home unharmed - mission accomplished.
2. An auto body shop that is only one story, roughly 50' x 75', and basically 100% involved should never be an offensive, interior attack. What is gained putting your guys in there? Salvaging the charred remains of some cars? We had a body shop on fire in February, with apartments upstairs. Initial crews reported fire in the rear and middle of the building with extension to a loft storage area. Two 2 1/2" lines made the push and knock down which worked. If we had fire conditions like Briarcliff did this morning, we would of gone defensive.
3. If you want to worry about containment of run off at a fire like this where you are flowing over 1000 GPM, let me know how well it works out. Sure you could call Haz-Mat or DOH to analyze the runoff, but other Officers here will probably agree with me that it isn't as high on the priority list as putting the fire out and protecting the exposures.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, stop being so over-concerned about what is and isn't done at incidents not pertaining to you. Got tactical questions, don't wait until someone has an incident to start nit-picking. Start a thread and get some answers!

Our old simulator, while technically challenging, was in dire need of an upgrade. Last weekend was spent upgrading and improving the simulator.

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Date:11/19/2010
Time:1531 hrs
Location: Croton Point Park - Tidal Marsh
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 10
Units Operating: 2081, 2082, Eng 120, TL-44, Rescue 18, 36- M1, 55-B2, Air-2
Weather Conditions: Cool, cloudy
Description Of Incident:
Subject and child stuck in the mud
1533: Dispatch for a person stuck in the mud
1534: Caller reports he is stuck knee to thigh high in the mud (victim is the caller)
1538: 2082 on location investigating -
1539: E120/R18 responding
1540: Updated location, behind the landfill, further towards the train station out on the point
1541: 2081 requesting County PD helicopter to locate victim
1546: Victim requesting Croton drive through the ball field to locate him and walk down the aqueduct trail
1551: Pt can see helicopter (Air -2) and is waving at them
1552: 2 individuals, 1 adult male, one 6 year old child (child not stuck)
1553: Croton FD can see victim, unsure how they are going to get to them
1554: Helicopter going to remove victim from the mud, adult in mud to his waist. Child just above ankles.
1555: EMS stage on the ball field for helicopter to drop victim off
1556: Air-2 made the pick, helicopter on way to the ball field
1558: TL 44 can return to service per 2082
1558: Air-2 offloading victim, situation undercontrol
Reporters:
Writer:

Forget about the rest of the Country, because I live in NY. I would like to say thank you to all the stupid people that live here. I really mean it. You make my life so much easier. Everyday I have less and less decisions to make. We allow our politicians to make intrusive decisions into our lives and again I would like to say thank you for being unable to make decisions for yourself. I don't have to worry what my food is fried in, what my popcorn is cooked in, what I can and can't drink, how much salt is in my food or God forbid to add a little, soon what Doctor I can see, how many calories are in the food I am eating, etc. Except where there is profitability for the government, like taxing tobacco (if it is that bad for your health then ban it not feed the governments habit). Thank God this is not a Fire Department issue, we would have another NFPA standard, OSHA regulation, or V&T law. When we can't look out for ourselves and make good decisions, take some personal responsibility and accountability, we leave it up to elected officials to make the decisions for us.
Happy Monday Morning!

After giving it some thought, I realized that I can no longer devote the time neccessary to be a member of the moderator staff on the website. I ran this by Seth and we decided this conclusively. I still plan on visiting the forum regularly and posting info as it comes up.
Thanks to all for lettng me help with the site for the last several years.
Joe Coppola

Please Contact Susan Siegel and express your concern over this matter. The K-9 unit is an invaluable tool that is utilized on a daily basis. The $4000 a year tag is for both dogs, not per dog. The K-9 Unit needs everyone's voice right now to stay afloat.

It makes me sick to my stomach to know that Pace University held a campus sponsored vigil for the perp. I can understand holding a moment of silence for a fallen student, or a candle light vigil for someone who pereished in a tragedy, but to hold an entire ceremony for someone who was in the process of committing multiple felonies makes me wonder how a$$ backwards this Country is becoming. While we're at it, lets hold a vigil for Diane Schuler as well.

The comment section of that article sounds like hyenas fighting over a kill....
We will just have to wait and see IF, and that's a big if, there was a delay, what caused it.
- cell phone bouncing off the wrong tower causing the caller to have to be transferred from location to location
- not transferring the actual caller to 60-Control
- dropped 911 calls
- any slew of things
Again, we all know from being in this business, that a 3 minute response time (not including the chief) from dispatch is a hell of an accomplishment. Kudos to all the agencies, both PD, FD and EMS, involved in suppression and rescue; you all did one hell of a job to ensure no one was injured or killed in what could have been a devastating fire.

Just as an idea for other departments.....Anytime there is the possibility of a fire or dive call in a neighboring department, members get on a group chat and send a text out. Guys who are available send a message back and if it sounds legit enough start heading to the FD, so everyone already knows if we're going who's going to show up.
First due, Mutual aid as a specific Co. or as a FAST, our guys enjoy going to fires and love what we do (we absolutely hate to see property damaged and lives destroyed, but we enjoy being able to mitigate a problem, help formulate a solution to minimize the damage and assist the individuals affected). Why would someone sign up to take a career or volunteer their time, to be something that they don't want to be? You are now part of the snowballing problem of volunteer / combo departments who are able to "boost numbers" with individuals on the roster, who never show up to do anything. "Oh our roster has 70 active members." Really? How many on an average call, working fire, car accident, auto alarm actually show up to do something, three maybe four?
My point is being, by padding your numbers with individuals who don't show up, you've now given a false sense of manpower to the community (the people and property you are sworn to protect), "We dont need to supplement with career staff, or hold a huge recruitment drive because of our 70 members." This in turn now adds to your response time for ANY type of call...both from the lack of manpower and the manpower that just doesn't care. EVERY department needs to look at themselves as a business would during a monthly, quarterly or yearly audit and say "What can we do to better ourselves to better our relations with the community, our brothers surrounding us and the fire service as a whole?" If every department did this, and actually made improvements on themselves we would be in a whole different state of affairs in Westchester and in the US.

Just as an idea for other departments.....Anytime there is the possibility of a fire or dive call in a neighboring department, members get on a group chat and send a text out. Guys who are available send a message back and if it sounds legit enough start heading to the FD, so everyone already knows if we're going who's going to show up.
First due, Mutual aid as a specific Co. or as a FAST, our guys enjoy going to fires and love what we do (we absolutely hate to see property damaged and lives destroyed, but we enjoy being able to mitigate a problem, help formulate a solution to minimize the damage and assist the individuals affected). Why would someone sign up to take a career or volunteer their time, to be something that they don't want to be? You are now part of the snowballing problem of volunteer / combo departments who are able to "boost numbers" with individuals on the roster, who never show up to do anything. "Oh our roster has 70 active members." Really? How many on an average call, working fire, car accident, auto alarm actually show up to do something, three maybe four?
My point is being, by padding your numbers with individuals who don't show up, you've now given a false sense of manpower to the community (the people and property you are sworn to protect), "We dont need to supplement with career staff, or hold a huge recruitment drive because of our 70 members." This in turn now adds to your response time for ANY type of call...both from the lack of manpower and the manpower that just doesn't care. EVERY department needs to look at themselves as a business would during a monthly, quarterly or yearly audit and say "What can we do to better ourselves to better our relations with the community, our brothers surrounding us and the fire service as a whole?" If every department did this, and actually made improvements on themselves we would be in a whole different state of affairs in Westchester and in the US.

Just as an idea for other departments.....Anytime there is the possibility of a fire or dive call in a neighboring department, members get on a group chat and send a text out. Guys who are available send a message back and if it sounds legit enough start heading to the FD, so everyone already knows if we're going who's going to show up.
First due, Mutual aid as a specific Co. or as a FAST, our guys enjoy going to fires and love what we do (we absolutely hate to see property damaged and lives destroyed, but we enjoy being able to mitigate a problem, help formulate a solution to minimize the damage and assist the individuals affected). Why would someone sign up to take a career or volunteer their time, to be something that they don't want to be? You are now part of the snowballing problem of volunteer / combo departments who are able to "boost numbers" with individuals on the roster, who never show up to do anything. "Oh our roster has 70 active members." Really? How many on an average call, working fire, car accident, auto alarm actually show up to do something, three maybe four?
My point is being, by padding your numbers with individuals who don't show up, you've now given a false sense of manpower to the community (the people and property you are sworn to protect), "We dont need to supplement with career staff, or hold a huge recruitment drive because of our 70 members." This in turn now adds to your response time for ANY type of call...both from the lack of manpower and the manpower that just doesn't care. EVERY department needs to look at themselves as a business would during a monthly, quarterly or yearly audit and say "What can we do to better ourselves to better our relations with the community, our brothers surrounding us and the fire service as a whole?" If every department did this, and actually made improvements on themselves we would be in a whole different state of affairs in Westchester and in the US.

I started this thread to once again alert members of the volunteer sector that having a dedicated F.A.S.T. on-scene promptly in the early stages of an interior fire attack is essential for firefighter safety.
I also said earlier in this thread that:
"As I have stated in previous discussions, EVERY Firefighter must be trained in F.A.S.T. operations, it should not be a option. If every volunteer firefighter is 'F.A.S.T. certified' it will be that much easier to form up a F.A.S.T. in an acceptable time frame (The sooner, the better)."

It's most unfortunate, but as I follow the postings I get the feeling that many still don't get the concept that F.A.S.T. IS NOT intended to be a 'special team'. F.A.S.T. is a basic firefighter skill just like hose line selection and Vent - Enter - Search. The mentality of " what we're doing is good enough' or 'we are volunteers, we don't have the time available to train everyone' is unacceptable. There are many functions that members of the the volunteer fire service put untold number of hours into that are nowhere near as important as firefighter safety. Until members of the volunteer fire service truly embrace the fact that firefighter safety and public safety must be THE priority, nothing will change.
Stay safe.

I'm stating 'facts that I dont have exact statistic for, but a majority of all FF removals are made from the initial companies making entry, not the FASTeam. Why shouldn't every FF be trained in FAST techniques? My personal belief is that is should be required, along with survival and FF 2 in the inital firefighter class. A majority of other states mandate that it is. Florida for a fact does it this way as well as I wanted to go through their class, but didn't due to time constraints. They wanted everyone, regardless of whether they were career or volunteer, trained the exact same. Why should there be differences between career training and volly training? Fire doesn't give a crap about who you are or what you do for a living, its all the same beast.
If you have objections to this, then you need to think about the brotherhood you joined. If you don't want the training for yourself, what about for your downed brother that's trapped?

I'm stating 'facts that I dont have exact statistic for, but a majority of all FF removals are made from the initial companies making entry, not the FASTeam. Why shouldn't every FF be trained in FAST techniques? My personal belief is that is should be required, along with survival and FF 2 in the inital firefighter class. A majority of other states mandate that it is. Florida for a fact does it this way as well as I wanted to go through their class, but didn't due to time constraints. They wanted everyone, regardless of whether they were career or volunteer, trained the exact same. Why should there be differences between career training and volly training? Fire doesn't give a crap about who you are or what you do for a living, its all the same beast.
If you have objections to this, then you need to think about the brotherhood you joined. If you don't want the training for yourself, what about for your downed brother that's trapped?

Agreed. And that's why FAST training is needed for all members, not just a team from far away. It's a simple concept. I don't know why it is widely misunderstood.

And what is any different in this tragic case than what happens virtually everywhere? The former chief spoke. He's apparently a city fireman. **When he tried to bring the fire department up to OSHA standards he was asked to resign by the current mayor. **Edit: according to the report in lohud.
I remember having to fight to get the air quality in our firehouses cleaned up. We had two members who died young of strange cancers. You'd think it was a no brainer that the department would take the air quality issue head on. Yet we faced a hostile administration at the time. I was told by a commissioner, "We can do one firehouse per year"; wonderful when you have five stations. So we fought them, we got the money from FEMA and we got it done, **** them.
Time and again, OSHA standards are taken lackadaisically by those who are "in charge." And if this is the case in Tarrytown, the investigation will reveal who, what, where. What a damn shame, what a waste of two human beings lives.
This is the purpose of a union having a Health and Safety Committee. Those on the committee have got to fight, become "unpopular" (sometimes even the ones you are fighting FOR turn on you), yet at the end of the day you can go home and say at the very least you did your best for what is right. Some things are worth fighting for.
So many advances in safety on the job come from the employees pushing the administration to get it done. It should not be this way, and in many places with progressive leadership, it is not. Those lucky enough to have a chief or a supervisor, or a mayor who will actually do things properly (I don't care if it's for CYA or actually because they care) should not take it for granted. Just get it done.
Too late for two more guys. Rest in peace.