Anger, Disgust, Blame (Tarrytown Patch Article)

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Thanks to JS for the link.

From the Tarrytown Patch News:

Anger, Disgust, BlameA barrage of complaints, allegations and shame were leveled at Tarrytown officials last night over the deaths of Anthony Ruggiero and John Kelly.

http://tarrytown.patch.com/articles/anger-disgust-blame

[SageVigiles 1,194]

It sickens me that it takes THIS to finally get the average citizen to realize what the fire services' needs are. Kudos to everyone who stood up and supported FFs Kelly and Ruggierio at this meeting, including the fire service and DPW guys having the stones to stand up to the administration.

I just hope somebody gets held accountable for not giving these guys what they needed to get the job done safely.

[Guest jcnyc]

This was a totally tragic and avoidable event. But how is it that the responsibility of these two deaths is on the municipality?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

It sickens me that it takes THIS to finally get the average citizen to realize what the fire services' needs are. Kudos to everyone who stood up and supported FFs Kelly and Ruggierio at this meeting, including the fire service and DPW guys having the stones to stand up to the administration.

I just hope somebody gets held accountable for not giving these guys what they needed to get the job done safely.

And what is any different in this tragic case than what happens virtually everywhere? The former chief spoke. He's apparently a city fireman. **When he tried to bring the fire department up to OSHA standards he was asked to resign by the current mayor. **Edit: according to the report in lohud.

I remember having to fight to get the air quality in our firehouses cleaned up. We had two members who died young of strange cancers. You'd think it was a no brainer that the department would take the air quality issue head on. Yet we faced a hostile administration at the time. I was told by a commissioner, "We can do one firehouse per year"; wonderful when you have five stations. So we fought them, we got the money from FEMA and we got it done, **** them.

Time and again, OSHA standards are taken lackadaisically by those who are "in charge." And if this is the case in Tarrytown, the investigation will reveal who, what, where. What a damn shame, what a waste of two human beings lives.

This is the purpose of a union having a Health and Safety Committee. Those on the committee have got to fight, become "unpopular" (sometimes even the ones you are fighting FOR turn on you), yet at the end of the day you can go home and say at the very least you did your best for what is right. Some things are worth fighting for.

So many advances in safety on the job come from the employees pushing the administration to get it done. It should not be this way, and in many places with progressive leadership, it is not. Those lucky enough to have a chief or a supervisor, or a mayor who will actually do things properly (I don't care if it's for CYA or actually because they care) should not take it for granted. Just get it done.

Too late for two more guys. Rest in peace.

Edited September 25, 2010 by efdcapt115

[JetPhoto 626]

CSEA union officials are putting blame on the workers supervisors, and the town for the lack of proper supervision, training and equipment needed. They also point out that the proper confined space work permits were not made in accordance to PESH & OSHA

CSEA now offering confined space training to it's members

[Remember585 815]

I knew John Kelly for at least 20 years, and I know his daughter. To see the officials in Tarrytown come out and make a statement, however they wanted it perceived, before these men were buried is a disgrace, an insult and a blatent disregard for those affected. There is a time and a place to make comments, to point fingers and to reveal the findings. Before the funerals of two good & decent men who were at the wrong place at the wrong time is insensitive and unprofessional. To have to undergo the heartbreak of suddenly losing a loved one is a terrible thing, and for the Tarrytown officials to say what they said when they did makes it harder to cope with the loss of two people loved by many.

Shame on you, Tarrytown officials.

[jack10562 414]

Confined Space entry training is not optional.

In my experience while working for a large Gas and Electric utility company, anyone who's job entails entry into a confined space is REQUIRED to have documented employer-provided OSHA training and refreshers, be supplied with proper atmospheric testing equipment and necessary PPE.

OSHA standards 29CFR 1910.146

In a nutshell:

Once testing determines the confined space atmosphere is hazardous per the standards,it becomes a permit-required confined space, with enhanced entry supervision and rescue/retrieval requirements for entrants.

Otherwise you just don't go in.

[Bnechis 3,961]

CSEA union officials are putting blame on the workers supervisors, and the town for the lack of proper supervision, training and equipment needed. They also point out that the proper confined space work permits were not made in accordance to PESH & OSHA

CSEA now offering confined space training to it's members

While its a good thing the union is doing this its been law since 1993. Where has the larges union that protects municipal workers been for the last 17 years? If the workers do not know the dangers or the law and the employeer is ignoring it, the unions roll is to protect the workers.

In a nutshell:

Once testing determines the confined space atmosphere is hazardous per the standards,it becomes a permit-required confined space, with enhanced entry supervision and rescue/retrieval requirements for entrants.

Otherwise you just don't go in.

The standard actually says all spaces require a permit unless thru testing you can determine that a space is exempt. by definition all manholes in storm and sanitary lines are permit required.

The only way municipal officals and emergency service leaders will final get this (yes many do) is when they get sued personnally for this.

[Anthony Tester 13]

Sadness, the feeling I get every time I read about a brother who passes. Line of duty deaths strike a nerve unlike any other, emotions run wild, and well my heart hangs heavy.

If in this day in age you, your department , your town, village, city, etc., are not following what the Department of Labor says, OSHA, NFPA, NYS Building and Fire Codes, OFPC, Nationally Acceptable Practices, NIMS, etc., then please quit the fire service NOW.

I do not know all the facts of the Tarrytown FD and cannot comment on this incident, but I would sure hope they have followed all of these guidelines and any other applicable guideline(s).

If you really think it cannot happen in your department, you are sadly mistaken.

My sincere Condolences to the Tarrytown Fire Department and to the friends and families of these two brothers.