Dinosaur

I think the concept is being lost on some departments that create special teams for FAST when it should be the function of aany/every FF instead of "special teams" that aren't always available.
In a large career department every FF can be FAST. In smaller departments and most volunteer agencies it's treated like something special and not everyone gets the training.

I believe, and maybe one of our Academy Instructors can say for certain, that it is a required skill for the Career Academy. Why is it a bad concept to make it a requirement for Volunteer Departments? Everyone who is able to put on an airpack, should be trained to get themselves, as well as their Brother Firefighter out of a jam. Trouble doesn't wait until the FAST team is on the scene, at Career OR Volunteer fires. Why the double standard?

For example. If ABCtown gets toned for a working fire why dont they have their own FAST within their dept to roll on the first alarm? Why do they have to tone for another dept miles away that could take 20+ mins to arrive? To me this is how it should go. Tones drop. working fire. You send your first alarm assignment which should include a FAST through your dept. If you arrive on scene and need to put your fast "to work" call for another depts FAST to cover yours or go M/A for the "work". This way you always have a FAST on scene ready if god forbid they are needed.

I think the concept is being lost on some departments that create special teams for FAST when it should be the function of aany/every FF instead of "special teams" that aren't always available.
In a large career department every FF can be FAST. In smaller departments and most volunteer agencies it's treated like something special and not everyone gets the training.

I think the concept is being lost on some departments that create special teams for FAST when it should be the function of aany/every FF instead of "special teams" that aren't always available.
In a large career department every FF can be FAST. In smaller departments and most volunteer agencies it's treated like something special and not everyone gets the training.

I think the concept is being lost on some departments that create special teams for FAST when it should be the function of aany/every FF instead of "special teams" that aren't always available.
In a large career department every FF can be FAST. In smaller departments and most volunteer agencies it's treated like something special and not everyone gets the training.

I think the concept is being lost on some departments that create special teams for FAST when it should be the function of aany/every FF instead of "special teams" that aren't always available.
In a large career department every FF can be FAST. In smaller departments and most volunteer agencies it's treated like something special and not everyone gets the training.

While this is technically true, in most districts the majority of the voters who show up to vote are FD members & family members of those FD members.

Date: 10/21/2011
Time: 1345hrs
Location: Long Island Sound - off Rye Coast
Frequency: 155.625 (RPD), 155.310 (WCPD), 155.755 (VMPD), Marine VHF Channels
Units Operating: Marine Units from Rye PD, Mamaroneck Village PD, Greenwich PD, WCPD, NYPD, USCG / WCPD Air 2 / PCRRBEMS 77A4
Weather Conditions: Cloudy, windy (25 knotts), (68 Degree water temp)
Description Of Incident: 3 people fishing became surround by the rising tide. Resident on land spotted them and called 911.
Reporters: firedude
Writer: firedude
Rye Patch Article with Excelent Video (MUST WATCH!)
If anyone has anything to add, PM me.

Because FASNY wants to take credit for it even though it will undoubtedly cause litigation when the responsible party tries to cap the bill at 10K because of the state law and the FD tries to charge them more under the federal law.
FASNY really needs to catch up with the times. It would make more sense to see them lobbying for support to effectively consolidate some of the 2000+ FD's in the state.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/43158-brooklyn-fatal-electrocution-9-14-2011/page__pid__246353#entry246353
This is the link to the Brooklyn Fatal Electrocution. Take note that the victim was a Verizon employee. Even though Utility workers are professional and are usually very good at what they do, bad things sometimes happen to even them. Nobody, especially untrained (in utility services) firefighters have any place being anywhere near those wires, no matter, phone cable, electric.

There are many problems with this picture.
The top of an engine isn't the right tool to elevate fire suppression efforts.
The officer isn't wearing appropriate PPE.
Putting an engine under all those lines, energized or not, exposes the risk to damage if one of the lines fails and falls.
The officer could have simply called for the right equipment or let the utility handle their own problem with their equipment.
I don't understand the rush to use the wrong equipmnent for the job when the right equipment is readily available.
And a question for the utility company guys out there: even if you de-energize the lines, couldn't they be back fed by a customer with an improperly connected home generator?
Bottom line, egos and emotions aside, it was the wrong move even if it was with good intentions.

There are many problems with this picture.
The top of an engine isn't the right tool to elevate fire suppression efforts.
The officer isn't wearing appropriate PPE.
Putting an engine under all those lines, energized or not, exposes the risk to damage if one of the lines fails and falls.
The officer could have simply called for the right equipment or let the utility handle their own problem with their equipment.
I don't understand the rush to use the wrong equipmnent for the job when the right equipment is readily available.
And a question for the utility company guys out there: even if you de-energize the lines, couldn't they be back fed by a customer with an improperly connected home generator?
Bottom line, egos and emotions aside, it was the wrong move even if it was with good intentions.

Ok lets move it away from that, What does your text book say? What does ConEd say in their training material and what do you written policies say.....word of mouth is not the way to go.
Many people use numbering because it makes your point clear, you are really streatching it to make it a bad thing.
While some go overboard (bashing) we would never want to learn from others mistakes. I wonder how many new FF's or Jr. FF's on here look at this and at the very least say to themselves, "this is an issue, I dont know who is correct, but I better learn more about it".
True, the dept knows and maybe they will reevaluate their operation, No need to let any other FF's know about it because it might embarress someone. If 1 more ff "gets it" from here.....Thats a good thing.
You are correct we don't know the whole story, but from what we see its hard to justify and their are learning points here.
Adapt does not mean ignor SOP's, Rules etc. We have buried a lot of brothers who "adapted" when they should not have.
No one said he did have to on here, they said he could if he wanted to. However, as a chief if he is not accountable for all actions (good ones and bad ones) then he should not be chief.
If his actions were wrong and he does not acknowledge that (to his dept.) what happens when a new member who witnessed it, tries it 5 or 10 years from now and it does not work, whose fault is it then?

And they hang the flag wrong to boot! :angry:

I saw only one post in an unrelated thread about the Verizon strike and the delay in scheduling a repair appointment. Are there any emergency service related impacts that this strike will have?
I heard from a couple of Verizon guys during their lunch break from the picket lines that the company is bringing in 20,000 non-union workers from other states to fill in for the striking workers. According to these guys, Verizon netted about 6 BILLION in PROFIT last year and their CEO's made over a quarter BILLION dollars in salaries and bonuses just last year but they're trying to send almost 10,000 jobs overseas to save money.
Sounds like union busting to me and they won't even negotiate with the unions.

I know of no legal requirement to respond if it will endanger responders.
In some states once sustained winds reach Tropical Storm force, response policies change and many agencies stop responses until the winds subside.
I have no idea what will be done here in NY this weekend.

There are no direct legal requiremnts, however The General Duty Clause of OSHA states:
29 U.S.C. § 654, 5(a)1: Each employer shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees."
Generally, thats close. We use (and got from many Fl. Depts) Sustained gail force winds (39 mph), but only if it is ahead of a hurricane.

In a word, NO.
If you can't rent a Toyota Corolla until you're 25 you shouldn't be driving emergency vehicles when you're less than 21.
Judgement, experience, knowledge simply aren't there.

In Dutchess if you call 911 you get the closest cop. It may be a local, a deputy sheriff or trooper.
What difference does it make if you meet a different cop at an EMS call? Who cares?
There is no County FD in Westchester so the likelihood that you'll see a town push for the county is pretty far-fetched. On the other hand, how many FD's are there in Mt Pleasant? 5? 6? 7? Combine them all into one big department, merge the districts, pool the resources (including $$$) and you'll have one kick-a** department with a lot of clout.
The new tax cap in NYS is going to change things a lot faster than 20 years.

For FD members with duplicative, redundant and extravagant apparatus, equipment, and stations to be so critical for the painting of some police cars is really disingenuous.
The PD has as much right to paint their vehicles as the FD's do. What's the difference?

Because apparatus or vehicles can be assigned to training or a public relations detail for a few hours one day doesn't make it non-essential. There is preventitive maintenance and other service that takes vehicles out of service for periods of time as well.
Your point can just as easily be made about front-line apparatus leaving district to another county for a parade.
How about Lake George? How many pieces of front line fire apparatus make the annual journey to Lake George for an entire weekend? Does that mean that those trucks are non-essential?
Is there duplicate, redundant or down-right useless apparatus in the metro area? Absolutely. I don't think a lot of it was at Playland yesterday though.

First off, I am not your bro....
Secondly, I said that I agree that he could have been taken into custody, I just didn't agree with swimming out there in a bathing suit.
Thirdly, we all risk our lives to save others. The model of risk vs benefit that I use is one that allows me to conduct a rescue while taking the proper necessary precautions to ensure the highest possibility of success to effect the rescue without placing myself, my co-workers, and my victim in unnecessary harm. Unnecessarily risking your life is utterly ridiculous, a dead rescuer is no good to anyone, especially when the proper training and equipment is readily available.
Cowardice? If you see my respect for the standards that have been established to ensure rescuer and victim safety as cowardice, then so be it, it's not worth arguing. But if you need to prove to yourself what a brave man you are by carrying out "thrown together" rescues for the people you "swore to protect", then I'm sorry but you are a dangerous individual and I just hope you don't get anyone else hurt.

I wish your statement was true. There are many differences besides payroll and pensions and they were like a cancer in my department for years creating animosity between the paid guys and volunteers. I know that they still exist today so you're either naive or in denial.
Disparate levels of training, widely varying levels of commitment, poor accountability of volunteers, varying levels of fitness, etc. are all differences between paid and volunteer.
You cannot compare FF 1 class to a career academy and claim they're equal.
And just to be accurate, there are pension costs in a lot of volunteer agencies. LOSAP programs cost money and are the volunteer equivalent of a pension.
We should demand equal training and promote more combination departments to insure that those who need it can get it. The people stuck in the anti-career or anti-volunteer camps are nothing but problems.

You're simplifying your example to make it suit your argument. Yes, Mrs. Smith calls 911 and gets a response. In a full-time, career department she gets (using your example) two engines and a truck with 10-12 FF's and at least a couple of officers in six minutes all of whom are fully-qualified interior firefighters capable of performing all of the duties expected of them at a fire scene. In the volunteer response, depending on the time of day and day of week you get two engines and a truck with a couple of drivers, a couple of exterior FF, a couple of interior FF and maybe (if they're not at work) an officer in 12-15 minutes.
I'm not saying all agencies have this problem. I'm saying that there is no "standard" and there are people running around calling themselves firefighters who aren't. They can't fight fires and they have minimal training.
I know that not everyone has LOSAP but those that do receive compensation so there is a cost. It is disingenuous to claim that volunteer FD's with LOSAP or other compensation to members do not have personnel costs. I moved to a volunteer community and almost 1/3 of their budget is for LOSAP. That is just one example but nonetheless, it is a cost.
What are the fitness standards in the volunteer fire service? Again, I'm not saying that all career guys are Joe Buff but there is a standard and they have to meet that standard to be hired and to complete their training. Some jobs require them to maintain it too. There is no comparable standard in the volunteer sector.
Please don't confuse me with someone who is anti-volunteer. I'm just anti-hypocrisy.