calhobs

Don't try too hard to follow his logic. First off, it's difficult for anyone who appreciates the rules of grammar and literacy, and second off, it's all plagiarized. So basically, all of his "thoughts" are stolen. That makes him a thief. There no lower creature in academia than he who passes off others work as his own. I just picked three random sentences in that post, and they are all, verbatim, off the internet.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6683091_negative-effects-labor-unions.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100921054610AAA0to0
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091019184208AA8AYGx
If anyone wants to have an honest discussion about the pros and cons of organized labor, please step up, but if all you can do is steal others thoughts and pass them off as your own, your making yourself look like a fool.
(Besides, doesn't plagiarism violate forum rules? If not, it should.)

You're education on this topic is so one sided its almost comical. Unions absolutely have flaws. No one that has ever taken on the pro labor argument on this board has ever trued to say that unions are a perfect solution. The contention is organized labor provides a better environment for the working class.
The Walker recall did fail. But as others pointed out he spent a massive amount of money and barely won. Its no secret that money equals influence in an election. Obama is hammering California and NYC fundraisers just for that reason. He spent nearly 10x as much (yes that doesn't include all of the campaigners pumped into the state by the unions) and won by a much smaller margin than his original election against a much stronger candidate. This recall sent a powerful message heeded by tea party governors in other states like Indiana.
Yes, higher wages and better compensation has to come from somewhere. Paying workers more drives prices up. I have NEVER heard management suggest a reduction in their compensation or a reduction in dividends for the shareholders to prevent reductions in pay or layoffs. I do however constantly hear about reductions and layoffs to preserve corporate profits.
It has been shown time and time again that increased compensation leads to increased spending which spurrs economic growth. Economies do not grow when people save money. Henry Ford ensured a market for his car by paying his employees enough to buy them. WWII dragged our economy out of the depression because we were forced to dump massive amounts of money into farming and manufacturing. To pay for it the government drove the effective taxrates to levels not seen before or since and the economy chugged along just fine with largest expansion of the middle class and smallest wealth disparity in our nations history.
You say unions are preventing American corporations from being competitive yet Germany has managed to maintain a dominant manufacturing sector and one of the strongest economies in the world despite being saddled with healthcare obligations and national labor organization.
There is no doubt our economy is broken. However any ashole that insists all of the blame rests with any one side is just that, an ashole and should be discounted as such.

Still, is this really so important that we need a LAW about it? Aren't there better things for our governments to be spending their time on?

good to see some that would rather use there time to train then march in a parade! goodd job to all involved!

There is it is called walking like they do in the City, works fine for them.

This whole situation is disturbing from several angles:
First, and most obviously, the fact that someone in a position of authority would show such disregard for the lives and property he's sworn to protect. This really says something about human nature and what happens when people are granted role power - something to be very aware of in our lives as we move through them. Nobody is immune to this, though their judgment may prevent something as egregious as this incident from occurring.
Second, the fact that the volunteer side of the service, by nature, is potentially (e.g., has the capacity to be - NOT saying that it might be) more permissive of, and acts as less of a deterrent for, this behavior. That coupled with the fact that there are vastly more volunteers than career members makes the likelihood of the bad apples being on the volunteer side higher. But the thing that really disturbs me here is that some people take this opportunity to makes this a volunteer vs. career issue and paint it all with a broad brush that completely ignores the fact that people, especially firefighters (type A personalities), often take the path of least resistance by using shortcuts (usually very creative, efficient and effective on the fireground) to get the job done. Human nature.
My last point is that we still, as a community, seem to adhere to the idea that punitive measures will correct issues like this and training will prevent it. Did this individual know what he was doing was wrong? I'd be shocked if someone could prove otherwise. He just thought he could get away with it. How many people change lanes without signaling?
Is that allowed? Nope, but nobody cares because they can get away with it. Turn signals prevent accidents, save lives, etc. Yet people ignore them, refuse to use them. I'd bet some of the same people that come down on this guy for his recklessness don't use them - whether they earn a living in the fire service or not.
We should all hold ourselves to a higher standard, regardless of the legal consequences. The human consequences of life safety are much more significant and should be our first concern and highest priority responsibility.

Chief Flynn I think to have an article point out that a firefighter is a Volunteer or Career is senseless, both sides have driving issues just as bad as the other. Just because you want people who have a career department to feel safe, does not mean it does not happen there. I have agreed with you on many issues here, but this one I have to say I disagree.
If you’re trying to say that career firefighters drive safer then volley firefighters...well your wrong if that is the statement. I have seen "career" firefighters blow red lights and stop signs on regular basis in the City, Yonkers, New Roc, and Mount Vern. So maybe if I write an editorial I on this should I use the term Career. So the people in my town feel safer because they are not volunteers I am writing about. While I am at should I mention if it is a female firefighter or male firefighter because there are people who think females are bad drivers, or should I state the firefighter is short or tall because there are people who think because if he or she is short they cant do the job, or should I state if a firefighter is black or white because there are racist people out there.

Chief Flynn I think to have an article point out that a firefighter is a Volunteer or Career is senseless, both sides have driving issues just as bad as the other. Just because you want people who have a career department to feel safe, does not mean it does not happen there. I have agreed with you on many issues here, but this one I have to say I disagree.
If you’re trying to say that career firefighters drive safer then volley firefighters...well your wrong if that is the statement. I have seen "career" firefighters blow red lights and stop signs on regular basis in the City, Yonkers, New Roc, and Mount Vern. So maybe if I write an editorial I on this should I use the term Career. So the people in my town feel safer because they are not volunteers I am writing about. While I am at should I mention if it is a female firefighter or male firefighter because there are people who think females are bad drivers, or should I state the firefighter is short or tall because there are people who think because if he or she is short they cant do the job, or should I state if a firefighter is black or white because there are racist people out there.

Chief Flynn I think to have an article point out that a firefighter is a Volunteer or Career is senseless, both sides have driving issues just as bad as the other. Just because you want people who have a career department to feel safe, does not mean it does not happen there. I have agreed with you on many issues here, but this one I have to say I disagree.
If you’re trying to say that career firefighters drive safer then volley firefighters...well your wrong if that is the statement. I have seen "career" firefighters blow red lights and stop signs on regular basis in the City, Yonkers, New Roc, and Mount Vern. So maybe if I write an editorial I on this should I use the term Career. So the people in my town feel safer because they are not volunteers I am writing about. While I am at should I mention if it is a female firefighter or male firefighter because there are people who think females are bad drivers, or should I state the firefighter is short or tall because there are people who think because if he or she is short they cant do the job, or should I state if a firefighter is black or white because there are racist people out there.

Chief Flynn I think to have an article point out that a firefighter is a Volunteer or Career is senseless, both sides have driving issues just as bad as the other. Just because you want people who have a career department to feel safe, does not mean it does not happen there. I have agreed with you on many issues here, but this one I have to say I disagree.
If you’re trying to say that career firefighters drive safer then volley firefighters...well your wrong if that is the statement. I have seen "career" firefighters blow red lights and stop signs on regular basis in the City, Yonkers, New Roc, and Mount Vern. So maybe if I write an editorial I on this should I use the term Career. So the people in my town feel safer because they are not volunteers I am writing about. While I am at should I mention if it is a female firefighter or male firefighter because there are people who think females are bad drivers, or should I state the firefighter is short or tall because there are people who think because if he or she is short they cant do the job, or should I state if a firefighter is black or white because there are racist people out there.

There is it is called walking like they do in the City, works fine for them.

An excuse that in the end didn't work for the American fire service.

I do not know how much longer you can say "you have to have tough skin" when it starts to cost your municipality a half million dollars per person not "having tough skin". To say well the municipalities insurance pays for it, don't you think the municipalities' insurance rates go up and over time you pay the insurance company back instead of a lump sum number to the victim. We all want the public to respect us, but look at some of the comments from the taxpayers at the bottom of the article. Sounds like we are our own demise. I just think it is easier and cheaper to just use your brain and think before you open your mouth.
Look at it this way, what would you do if someone busted your wifes chops at work for being assulted by her father or brother, yes you would beat there a**, but also you would sue big time, or would you tell her "you have to have thick skin"?

County: Westchester
City/Town/Municipality/Dept: Sleepy Hollow Fire Department
Unit designation/identifier: Engine 87
Chassis & Body (or Aerial) Manufacturer and model: Pierce Velocity Triple Combination Pumper (Rescue Pumper)
Pump size, tank size (water/foam), aerial type & length: 1750gpm/500gallon
Estimated delivery date: Fall 2012
Status: On order
Notes: Will replace current E87, a 1991 E-One Pumper

"calhobs", I certainly didn't feel at all that you were singling me out. Not at all there guy. (got the pm too).
I guess you can go back there a few years yourself. Me too. It was a competely different time. Not to get too off track here, but there just wasn't a term called "politically correct". We never heard of a thing called "Road Rage". In school we got in trouble for chewing gum, not for carrying a gun. We all went to the neighborhood school and nobody had to be bused from one side of the city to the other. Armed police officers or security guards didn't have to walk the school hallways. In most cities we left our doors Unlocked and didn't need security bars on the windows. These are just a few of the dozens of changes that occurred over the years along with "busting chops' as we once knew it.
So do most people think we've made successful progress over the years since we all now have a pretty good understanding of what we can say or not say. It seems at least to me that things like "Road Rage", "Home Invasions",or "School Shootings" are much more of a serious problem today than "busting chops" would ever be. I guess maybe one of the reasons that "busting chops" could be considered serious is that maybe it could lead to violence. But I don't remember any of Our "busting chops' leading to violence. Maybe a little ego destroyer, but thats about it.

Perfect advice. Simple, straight to the point, and easy for even the most dim-witted of our brethren to comprehend.

3 simple rules to follow,
1. If you are going to dish it out, then you better be able to take it in return.
2. Before you dish it out, ask yourself how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
3. When someone tells you to stop, stop, it is no longer busting chops but now harassment.

I do not know how much longer you can say "you have to have tough skin" when it starts to cost your municipality a half million dollars per person not "having tough skin". To say well the municipalities insurance pays for it, don't you think the municipalities' insurance rates go up and over time you pay the insurance company back instead of a lump sum number to the victim. We all want the public to respect us, but look at some of the comments from the taxpayers at the bottom of the article. Sounds like we are our own demise. I just think it is easier and cheaper to just use your brain and think before you open your mouth.
Look at it this way, what would you do if someone busted your wifes chops at work for being assulted by her father or brother, yes you would beat there a**, but also you would sue big time, or would you tell her "you have to have thick skin"?

I really can NOT disagree with you or anybody else on this. My point is that, in my opinion, we all just had clean fun at everybody's expense. Now to explain that, I guess is pretty diffucult to anybody who wasn't apart of it. Actually, I think it was GOOD FOR MORAL. Now try to figure that one out. There were certain subjects that were NEVER discussed. Family was one. Race and religion was another. No one ever had to have "Thick Skin" for that, because it was never an issue or even thought about. There was actually a Great amount of respect for each other, although in the firehouse it would sometimes seem to be almost that of a battle zone. And when we went out the door, those guys that had just acted like little kids in a Day Care, gave a service that was second to none.
I still keep in touch with many of my retired and active brothers, many who now live throughout this country. I certainly recieved my share, of a good Verbal Beating. In fact we all did. Speaking for myself, I'm glad I was a part of it from 1975 to 2004. Of course things started to change near the end. Instead of giving the old Verbal Beating in front of Everybody, I noticed there was more talking behind each others back.
So no longer is "thick skin" an unwritten requirement. Nobody takes a verbal beating at the kitchen table anymore. The verbal beating they take is behind closed doors, where an individual can't even try to defend themselves. At least I had a chance to speak my piece when the time came.
So today, we only speak of what is politically correct at that kitchen table. There is no need to have "Thick Skin". I guess if you happen to get a few strange looks during the day, it was your turn to get that Verbal Beating, "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS".

Where does on draw the line at the firehouse between busting chops and actually harrasing someone?
This is a major embarrasment from the LAFD, which has a deep affiliation with the Catholic Church. Some "Brotherhood"
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/03/16/la-fire-department-pays-firefighter-nearly-500k-after-sex-abu/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing10%7Cdl2%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D144661&a_dgi=aolshare_email

Dispatcher Robbie Bancroft of 60-Control assisted a father over the phone to deliver a baby in their Cortlandt home.
Aside from working at 60, Robbie has been a long time Firefighter with the Bedford Hills FD.
Nice work Robbie, always nice to see positive info regarding emergency services in the news.
Also, nice work on the part of the LMFD, LMVAC, ALS, NYSP and WCPD units that responded.
Here is the link to the Journal News article:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120321/NEWS/303210004/Special-delivery-Cortlandt-father-helps-son-s-birth
Also, congrats to the family and hope that mom and baby are doing well.

Well, obviously the tarps are the wrong color. Everybody knows that you don't use blue tarps on a white house with black trim.

This was just a question that I have been wondering about for some time now. It seems that after 9/11 everyone is focusing on preparing for "the big one", as well they should but it just seems backwards to me when:
An ambulance corps has enough MCI equipment to treat 100+ patients, but can't get out the door for an elderly fall victim
A fire department has all of the latest and greatest HAZMAT and WMD gear, but needs to call massive amounts of mutual aid for a room and contents fire
A police department has plenty of tactical and active shooter training, but needs to call the state police or sheriff's office to handle a past burg or larceny

In one case;
The Westchester FF's Pipes and Drums got formed under the leadership of some guys, like retired EFD Captains Timmy Harte and Rick Lynch (feel free to add to the list). The band rose to notice and was asked to march in between large fraternal organizations of FDNY firefighters.
Because of the vast number of FDNY members, it would take several minutes for the entire regiment to pass, marching behind the great FDNY Pipes and Drums who lead the way. To cut that up they inserted the Westchester band to help out.
It might have had something to do with TV commercial breaks and the passing of contingents by the viewing stand.
The Westchester Emerald Society had reformed in the '80's after the band. These members organized, under Lt. Joe Dolan(?) of the White Plains F.D., the color guard for the Westchester band. This lead to the Emerald Society members gathering to march directly behind their guys in the band, with the informal blessing of the city Brothers.
Some other original color guard members;
Tommy Moriarity NRFD
Jimmy Lang FDMV
Bruce Kerr RyeFD
In those original years of the Emeralds, the marching members out of respect for where they were and particularly honored, humbled, to participate amongst the members of the city, in their city, began to march in formation because they were numbered in few and actually completed the Westchester band's compliment.
Over the years, this lead to expansion of the people who started showing up and attaching to the emerald society. Finally, added for probably security reasons as much as anything else the parade peoples said the contingent behind the band had grown too large (it had with the stragglers), and would therefore have to...."disband." lol
"End of the Pack'ers" didn't help, as many who joined behind acted severely unprofessional. NO WAY the FDNY guys are going to let anybody come in there, on one of their most celebrated days, in the city they protect, endure injury and die for, and allow anything unprofessional that might be associated with the fire department. This became particularly important in the years following 9/11.
It went back to just the band and the honor guard still doing their job, last I heard.

Thank you to everyone on EMTBRAVO who supported E-306 and the YFD in the RescueRemodel Contest. Congratulations to Palos as I am assuming that they won. It won't be announced officially until the 15th. I haven't seen any evidence that Palos or anyone else did anything unethical or unfair. Give them credit for doing whatever they did to get the vote out, which is exactly what our guys accomplished very succesfully as well. Maybe IKEA will recognize that there was a legitimate issue with their technology which raised some suspicions and caused a bit of frustration and they will award two (or even 5) kitchen remodels- it would be even more great publicity for them...we'll see...
In any event, this contest has, I feel, been a needed morale booster for our guys. Also, although there is nothing official to announce yet, we have received several inquiries from both individuals and businesses who may wish to take on all or a part of a kitchen remodel for E-306. We will keep you all posted if any of that comes to fruition.
Thanks again to everyone who voted for E-306, and for your expressions of support.