CFI609D

Required reading, especially for those who do not take the role or importance of FAST/RIT seriously, as well as those who do not regularly drill on FAST/RIT skills. Do not let the sacrifice of our brothers in Boston be in vain...train in their honor!
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/03/27/rescue-team-member-recalls-efforts-save-trapped-firefighters-explosion/fpaSuuNZuVVlBPOJ0H7a2O/story.html
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/03/27/when-routine-turns-crisis/VciKjCDUWGZbp8saE1jWGM/story.html

From Kevin Cullen of The Boston Globe...a very well written piece indeed!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/03/28/boston-firefighters-singular-calling-ingrained-for-life/pwNZJAmRf6nhkyNaZmltJO/story.html

From Kevin Cullen of The Boston Globe...a very well written piece indeed!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/03/28/boston-firefighters-singular-calling-ingrained-for-life/pwNZJAmRf6nhkyNaZmltJO/story.html

RIT and FAST are two different terms for the same thing.

The question was answered. If you are looking for an "always or never" answer, aint goona happen. When the IC feels he doesn't need them anymore, he makes the call. He just has to justify that call if something goes wrong.

Amen, Barry!
Sadly, FASNY's misguided priorities (blue lights, dumbing-down training standards, etc.) only hold us back. The volunteer fire service needs to understand that FASNY and the attitude they represent do nothing to increasing firefighter safety. And it is unrealistic for the volunteer fire service in NY to get the respect that so many want as long as we have training "apartheid"!

Amen, Barry!
Sadly, FASNY's misguided priorities (blue lights, dumbing-down training standards, etc.) only hold us back. The volunteer fire service needs to understand that FASNY and the attitude they represent do nothing to increasing firefighter safety. And it is unrealistic for the volunteer fire service in NY to get the respect that so many want as long as we have training "apartheid"!

Wrong. Get more members on-scene to get the job done and leave RIT/FAST standing bye.
WHY DO WE CONTINUE TO ACCEPT NOT ENOUGH STAFFING AT FIRES?
While we cant change the on-duty staffing. Their are standards for staffing at incidents. The bosses need to follow them and the unions need to hold their feet to the fire on this. If it means calling every dept. mutual aid then DO IT. But no we then complain that this is abuse. Yes it is, but whats more important is the brothers inside. Maybe if the abuse gets bad enough, the communities will open their eyes and accept change.

2. Why doesn't Westchester have an accepted minimum training / minimum staffing for almost everything we do? Why did some inner city areas of the county get ALS before most wealthy areas? Why is no one complaining when they hear page after page for manpower? We have depts. that are violating state and federal laws when it comes to this and they are just relying on the fact that no one is forcing the issue.
3. because we have way too many fire departments who can no longer staff to the most minimum of levels and they refuse to consider changing and as long as the public does not demand it we can slide. By their silence they are lying to the public who think they are protected.
5 AGREED!!!!!!!!

1. So long as personnel are operating within the IDLH - then yes, someone needs to be designated to the responsibility of firefighter rescue. How an IC handles this is their call.
2. Why doesn't Westchester have an accepted minimum training / minimum staffing requirement in the Mutual Aid plan for a FAST company?
3. Why is everyone depending on the Mutual Aid FAST to be their "solution" to cover their 2 In / 2 Out? Someone needs to be the "2 Out" right off the bat if you got "2 In."
4. What is a department's SOG when they have a MAYDAY? This is something our department is working on now for several months. Our biggest concern isn't so much what happens at an incident in our jurisdiction, it's when we go Mutual Aid. How do we go about getting the resources we're looking to get? What do you do if that IC refuses to call for them?
5. It's 2014. We have talked about FAS Teams for what, 15 or more years and had the same discussions/debates... let's knock off this bullshit and get a f***ing plan in place, train on it and pray we never need it! This isn't about paid vs. volunteer, this isn't about calling a department because they're your drinking buddies - THIS IS TAKING CARE OF OUR OWN.
I'm sorry guys, but this stuff truly strikes a nerve with me. But I know DAMN WELL that those of you who are intelligent firefighters, officers or past officers are agreeing with me and beating your head against your desk just like me.

Amen, Barry!
Sadly, FASNY's misguided priorities (blue lights, dumbing-down training standards, etc.) only hold us back. The volunteer fire service needs to understand that FASNY and the attitude they represent do nothing to increasing firefighter safety. And it is unrealistic for the volunteer fire service in NY to get the respect that so many want as long as we have training "apartheid"!

Amen, Barry!
Sadly, FASNY's misguided priorities (blue lights, dumbing-down training standards, etc.) only hold us back. The volunteer fire service needs to understand that FASNY and the attitude they represent do nothing to increasing firefighter safety. And it is unrealistic for the volunteer fire service in NY to get the respect that so many want as long as we have training "apartheid"!

I thought the only difference in trucks were tower ladders and straight sticks. The fat lazy Truckies ride the TL to the roof and the real Truckies climb to the top!!!

RIT and FAST are two different terms for the same thing.

Amen, Barry!
Sadly, FASNY's misguided priorities (blue lights, dumbing-down training standards, etc.) only hold us back. The volunteer fire service needs to understand that FASNY and the attitude they represent do nothing to increasing firefighter safety. And it is unrealistic for the volunteer fire service in NY to get the respect that so many want as long as we have training "apartheid"!

While I agree # 2 is correct we need to start convincing at the local level first....without that you have nothing. #1 goes without saying,

1) Nobody in NYS believed it, it was claimed by many in the fire service it would not be used against us, but at the same time the judges & lawyers were saying it would.
2) The volunteer fire service needs to convince FASNY. They have lobbied against it on your behalf for decades.

FAST should be part of FF1

Legally the only requirement is for "2 out" not FAST, but since FAST is in NFPA standards, a dept &/or IC could get sued if something went wrong and they did not have FAST.

Wow, we have way too many lawyers.
1st off, local governments including fire depts. dispose of equipment without value all of the time. if I have 20 year old turnouts, never used & in the original bag...what is it worth? Some would say $100's or more. We would say its worth millions in liability if used.
Ok lets say this 17 year old truck is worth $15,000, The chassis manufacturer went belly up 15 years ago, so parts are hard to come by and the cost to keep it "road worthy" might be more than its worth (so in 1 year it could be worthless), what are our options:
1) we can trade it in on a new rig, but wont get $15,000 for it.
2) action it. But in the past we find the high bidders run around $3,000 - 5,000 (usually for scrap)
3) we can donate it to another governmental agency, and our probies & other ff's get to use it for a few years and saves us from having to send another truck, depriving our citizens of that coverage. Well worth the $3,000 - $5,000 we usually get at this point.
4) to keep it longer violates NFPA 1901 (mostly for vehicle safety issues, like stability control & anti-lock breaks). So again liability & can't be don't because the manufacture is out of the game.
btw: this vehicle is perfectly safe for training center use. past its ladder & pump tests within the year, but is no longer safe to be responding in traffic.

Dave is an outstanding fire instructor, perhaps one of the best & most knowledgeable in our area (which is a big statement given how much talent we have in this region).

Dave is an outstanding fire instructor, perhaps one of the best & most knowledgeable in our area (which is a big statement given how much talent we have in this region).

Interesting issues.
1) The case proved that the Village of Tarrytown clearly has no defense again its willful violation of the law. I suspect the next and final step in this story will be the litigation against it by the families of those who died. I suspect the payout will be very large.
2) The Village has "NO CONTROL" over the actions & operation of the fire department is no defense. If you have an FD, you are responsible for its actions.
3) If your Fire dept. does not have a written policy that clearly instructs all members that they must understand what a confined space is (confined space awareness) and they are never permitted to enter or if they are permitted, they must have the original & annual training, equipment, and the written procedures or you are violating the law.
For 18 years before this incident, OSHA has used this exact scenario to describe how workers and rescuers die in confined spaces. Hopefully the many depts. that do not comply with the law have taken notice and corrected the situation. This incident should never have happened, but I am sure it will again in some community that fails to learn from this.

This is another interesting development in the never-ending saga of "you can't tell me what to do" because we're an independent fire company. Not true in the eyes of the law and all those citations prove it.

For the discussion about whether FF are employees are not, this highlights the point again, volunteer FF's are employees and you can't ignore OSHA, PESH or other regulations.
RIP!

#1. Thank God this fad is over. It was fun and entertaining for like 30 seconds.
#2. I don't see anything wrong with having any fun doing something like this. It builds camradarie.
#3. The only thing I saw that I don't like was the video of the black over red Truck where what appears to be two teenage girls on top of it dancing. Who is to blame if they fall off and get hurt?
Have fun, do it tastefully and be safe.