CFI609D

To answer your final question, Chief: absolutely!
Excellent points/questions here. Sadly, I see very few FDs approach FAST training in a realistic or honest way. And when I say honest, I mean tackling a scenario with resources akin to what they will actually be responding with.
Thank you for sharing this!

Here's a question that fits this thread.
When you do live fire training, do you
1. Train new or up and coming IC's along with your Chiefs?
2. Plan a surprise simulated Mayday to which the IC must react? (e.g. an inside officer at a given time calls a Mayday-collapse- members trapped)
3. Do you do this simulated Mayday before a FAST team arrives? (so that the 2-OUT and the on-scene personnel must be utilized)
4. Do you critique the events?
Do you think you should?

Personally, I don't think they are ready to be interior firefighters after only FF I, forget being assigned to a high-intensity rapid intervention unit. IMHO: FF I, FF II, and Survival should be successfully completed prior to taking FAST. And it is not just an issue of courses and formal training as FAST skills need to be practiced as a unit on an ongoing basis.

I agree with most of what you are saying. My point, however, is that before even starting to worry about special operations, etc. we need to get our line firefighters better trained, better drilled, and better prepared. FAST training is very important but too many FDs are cutting corners and not spending enough time on the fundamentals.

I agree Syd and Andy, but with the inclusion of Firefighter II also.The bottom line is that FF I is not adequate on its own for combat-ready interior firefighters. There should be no difference in training for career and volunteer, nor requirements to operate as interior or on a FAST unit. FF I, FF II, Survival, and FAST should all be minimum requirements here as they are in other jurisdictions.

I agree Syd and Andy, but with the inclusion of Firefighter II also.The bottom line is that FF I is not adequate on its own for combat-ready interior firefighters. There should be no difference in training for career and volunteer, nor requirements to operate as interior or on a FAST unit. FF I, FF II, Survival, and FAST should all be minimum requirements here as they are in other jurisdictions.

FAST / RIT is not supposed to be a special op's resource or a special team, county team, select group of folks who are trained differently or to a higher level than other firefighters, etc. FAST / RIT skills are necessary for EVERY firefighter every bit as much as any other firefighting essential functions are. When a MAYDAY is transmitted, IMMEDIATE action by knowledgeable, skilled firefighters is required. FAST / RIT operations are often required very early on during an incident, obviously we all need to be ready to perform appropriately and immediately when a firefighter requires assistance due to entrapment or medical condition while in a hazardous location. FAST / RIT training absolutely needs to be a requirement for new firefighters prior to certification. Currently certified firefighters who are not FAST / RIT certified should be required to attend the course and become certified. Firefighting is not a game, a passtime or a hobby, it's about life and death. Those who don't see it that way need to find a different calling.

I agree with most of what you are saying. My point, however, is that before even starting to worry about special operations, etc. we need to get our line firefighters better trained, better drilled, and better prepared. FAST training is very important but too many FDs are cutting corners and not spending enough time on the fundamentals.

Personally, I don't think they are ready to be interior firefighters after only FF I, forget being assigned to a high-intensity rapid intervention unit. IMHO: FF I, FF II, and Survival should be successfully completed prior to taking FAST. And it is not just an issue of courses and formal training as FAST skills need to be practiced as a unit on an ongoing basis.

I agree Andy.
FF I, survival and FAST all in one.

Until we see on a regular basis properly trained and appropriately equipped FAST Teams, this topic will remain relevant. Six guys with hand tools are not a proper FAST Team. Six firefighters properly trained (minimum FF1, FF2, Survival, FAST) and properly drilled (working as a team on an ongoing basis practicing the skill learned in the aforementioned classes) does make a FAST Team.
While for some FDs in Westchester this is the norm, sadly they are a minority. Only when this becomes standard practice at all fires will this topic be a dead horse worthy of dismissal.
Just my $0.02!!

I wish it was not the case. Sadly, too many FDs spend more time and energy on looking good vs. operating safely and training on these mission critical skills.

I wish it was not the case. Sadly, too many FDs spend more time and energy on looking good vs. operating safely and training on these mission critical skills.

CFI 609 - very accurate and truthful remark!

Dude, this has everything to do with him and his agenda, which is shared by many powerful folks in NYC and NYS. De Blasio's agenda takes PC to an entirely new level, and this is but a taste of what is likely to follow.
Mark my words: law enforcement and emergency services are going to suffer greatly in this new administration, especially given that their agenda is supported by the same judges behind this class at the Rock!

Welcome to Bill de Blasio's NYC. Just wait to see what comes next!

Dave Sanford (DC Westport FD, DC Wilton FD, Danbury FD & WRFD): he taught me the importance of training and that we never stop learning. A true gent, great leader, and mentor to so many of us who were fortunate to learn from him and call him a friend.
Bernie Bodner (Norwalk FD): a true fireman's fireman of the old school, Bernie understood fire behavior like no one else I have ever met. He was completely fearless, both on the job and when he fought his final battle with cancer, no doubt linked to so many years of inhaling toxic byproducts of combustion.
Andy "Father" Clarke (LT FDNY): Lt. Clarke shared much of his knowledge which he amassed throughout the War Years, serving on the South Bronx. He allowed me to ride with his engine company while I was a teen, and was kind enough to explain the principles of size-up and incident command before there were any of today's text books on the subject.
Ed Smith (PGCFD & DCFD): Ed took the time to help me, "the new guy", learn and adapt to the DC way of doing things, and watched my back as I learned the ropes on TL33. He will always be my brother from another mother. Stay safe, Cap, I will always have your back as you had mine!
And finally Ed Sere (FDNY): He took a young kid from the country and exposed him to urban firefighting and truck work in Harlem & the Bronx at L14 & R3. Every night buffing with Ed and his brothers was an education, with the lessons including not only life saving & survival techniques, but also an introduction to the brotherhood of the fire service and the importance of a good culture of esprit de corps in the firehouse.
Thank you to all of the aforementioned who so generously helped me start my fire service career. You are all with me every day on the line and in the kitchen. My feelings are best said by the old Irish blessing:
"May the roof above us never fall in, and may we friends gathered below never fall out."

My name is my screen name and my agency was listed in my profile. I have since updated it so feel free to view.

My username isn't my real name (obviously) but is a reminder of my late Uncle killed in the line of duty. However, my real name and location are posted underneath.
I like the thought process that if you can't say it to someone's face, don't post it behind an alias.

I had many mentors through the years, too many to mention individually. Therefore I will just lump them together in a group I shall call all the senior firefirghters in my department and some of my neighboring departments. Now that I am a "senior member" I sincerely hope that I am having an influence on some of our younger members and setting a good example for them!

Jim Taxter Joe Butler Dan Berry Frank Brannigan

Yes, those guys were definitely the ones when it came to Building Construction, Fire Prevention, and investigation.
I saw Ed Sere mentioned. I only knew him for one thing, but it was a big change in how we operate. Ed took us out of the ladder belt rappelling method, and taught us figure eights and beeners using kernmantle rope. He had a 2-part rescue harness for a victim that I am surprised hasn't sold millions. Made of webbing loops, it could easily and hastily be put on a conscious or unconscious victim.
Then there were the Westchester Community College classmates. Those guys, like me were there on the GI Bill. The Bronx Bunch, however, were older and worked though he Burn, baby, burn era. They did trial and error tactics at not less than one multi-alarm job every night. From them came the trench cut and much more. In my class were also great men like Silvio Burigo, Capt,NRFD and Asst Chief ED Dunn, YFD. My success in the FD stems from "I wanna be like them."
Then, a good friend, Tommy Brennan, Capt, FDNY, probably best known for his Random Thoughts on the last page of Fire Engineering. Most readers of Fire Engineering read the mag from the back page first. His thoughts were not random at all. Tommy was a very focused individual and when he first met you he would ask you a few questions before he decided to talk to you.
Finally, the guy in the mirror. He always knew if I was doing the right thing.

Dude, this has everything to do with him and his agenda, which is shared by many powerful folks in NYC and NYS. De Blasio's agenda takes PC to an entirely new level, and this is but a taste of what is likely to follow.
Mark my words: law enforcement and emergency services are going to suffer greatly in this new administration, especially given that their agenda is supported by the same judges behind this class at the Rock!

Welcome to Bill de Blasio's NYC. Just wait to see what comes next!

Dave Sanford (DC Westport FD, DC Wilton FD, Danbury FD & WRFD): he taught me the importance of training and that we never stop learning. A true gent, great leader, and mentor to so many of us who were fortunate to learn from him and call him a friend.
Bernie Bodner (Norwalk FD): a true fireman's fireman of the old school, Bernie understood fire behavior like no one else I have ever met. He was completely fearless, both on the job and when he fought his final battle with cancer, no doubt linked to so many years of inhaling toxic byproducts of combustion.
Andy "Father" Clarke (LT FDNY): Lt. Clarke shared much of his knowledge which he amassed throughout the War Years, serving on the South Bronx. He allowed me to ride with his engine company while I was a teen, and was kind enough to explain the principles of size-up and incident command before there were any of today's text books on the subject.
Ed Smith (PGCFD & DCFD): Ed took the time to help me, "the new guy", learn and adapt to the DC way of doing things, and watched my back as I learned the ropes on TL33. He will always be my brother from another mother. Stay safe, Cap, I will always have your back as you had mine!
And finally Ed Sere (FDNY): He took a young kid from the country and exposed him to urban firefighting and truck work in Harlem & the Bronx at L14 & R3. Every night buffing with Ed and his brothers was an education, with the lessons including not only life saving & survival techniques, but also an introduction to the brotherhood of the fire service and the importance of a good culture of esprit de corps in the firehouse.
Thank you to all of the aforementioned who so generously helped me start my fire service career. You are all with me every day on the line and in the kitchen. My feelings are best said by the old Irish blessing:
"May the roof above us never fall in, and may we friends gathered below never fall out."