antiquefirelt

It would appear the real question, instead of hammering one FD here, would be could your own FD handle this incident? Likely, few could have done it alone without seriously compromising efficiency, limbs or lives. It's great that FDNY can and does handle incidents of greater magnitude than the rest of on their own, so well.
So, ask yourself: how would my FD handle tis? Who would we call? Can we all speak on common frequencies? What's the command structure going to look like? Will everyone play nice? We can take all the NIMS mandated course they'll throw at us and go to hundreds of one and two car wrecks, but in the end once it's outside your own resources control and coordination becomes much more difficult, those that do it regularly and train will be far ahead of the rest. And BTW, the public expects the same response FDNY gave anywhere that tour bus goes. Can your FD even come close?

You can save your thanks...but lets get a few things straight here. First...I don't bleed the taxpayers...in fact most firefighters today are underpaid for the amount of services we provide and the majority of us are short staffed. So sorry you feel that that emergency services providers are the ones causing all the woes on the backs of the taxpayers. Oh wait..that's right I forgot...I pay taxes as well...the same taxes as everyone else and I'm willing to bet where I live..I'm paying a little more. What ever happened to you get what you pay for? And since you and I are similar in some ways as I totally appreciate your candor and pointed response (far too little of that on here anymore) I will kindly ablige you with the same and here it is: Get off our backs. I don't know what you do...but most in private corporations had the same options to be on this side. And I don't know too many of you who miss holidays with your families, nor wear 55 lbs of equipment or a ballistic vest while at work. High percentage disability payments? What exactly are you smoking? I don't worry about getting struck by a car while crossing the street sucking down a latte and crossant when at work. Every time the buzzer hits it could be something that I might not go home or be able to provide for my family at the same level I was if I didn't get hurt. And oh, that's right I do it because I serve to do a job that most would wet their pants, vomit or end up on medication if they tried. I'm sure you do have a decent package and I'm happy for you...but don't forget you work to make your corporation money...and more gets filtered to the top then you...look deeper into where your tax money goes on the local level and then you tell me about disability, overtime "padding" etc. I don't get off of work at 1 or 2 to get paid till 4. I don't get double or triple overtime pay and I certainly haven't sat at home with my family on several thanksgivings and christmas.
For all you others that whine and talk about corporations in the same breath as public sector employees...here's a little story for you.
There are 3 cookies on a table in the front of a room. There is a CEO, a mayor and the crowd is taxpayers on one side, municipal employee unions on the other. The taxpayers are screaming they want all 3 cookies...each union is saying they want a larger piece of a cookie. The CEO stands up...calms the crowd and says "guys relax I got it...picks up 2 cookies...walks down the aisle and turns towards the taxpayers and yells..."those guys on my right are trying to take your cookie." Go figure.
And whoever said that federal employees do well...look at the salaries again...I was one and I couldn't maintain my style of life for me or my kids based on that salary as an officer. And many of those salaries were increased because of the loss of talented and critically needed employees to the private sector.
Keep sipping the kool aid...and getting your info from Fox news and the papers. Fox news is officially off my list with their anti labor rhetoric and particularly the attack on emergency services providers by wakco's like Glenn Beck (never watched him when I was a Fox News fan) and O'Reilly (who was a teacher no less). Oh by the way their millionaires from their shows and books...but I bet if their a** caught on fire or clutched their chest they wouldn't give a s*** about what local taxes their paying on their large houses.

Show me an American made TV. I'll buy it.

Posts such as this one lead me to believe we should be paying teachers even more !

People are forgetting who built this country, and who help contribute to these politicians campaigns....UNIONS. All this talk about the taxpayer the taxpayer, we are all taxpayers and Im so sick and tired of all these financial district guys bashing our Unions. Our economy isn't in this financial burden due to the unions, or the Pensions. Do i think that some things need to be revamped, yes i do. The reality of it is that in these municipalities a lot of it is due to poor budgeting, corruption, bad spending and the list goes on. We bomb other countries, spend trillions of dollars to do it, then we send them over food, but yet how many people are homeless and starving in NYC alone. I do think a lot of people who work in or used to work in the financial district, same people who got their half million dollar bonuses at xmas time, are sitting home, unemployed, pissed off that their taxes are going to some cop, firemen, or DPW guy and to boot he's pissed that these guys are getting Pensions. They also forget the work we do and the things we risk everyday when we go to work. I go to work everyday not knowing if Im coming home at the end of the day, even if I am at cushie job, its still the nature of the job. . Do I think its worth some kind of Pension when I retire along with making up to 100K, absolutely. Should collective bargaining be stripped from Union workers, absolutely not, its unconstitutional, the biggest criminals here are the politicians.

While I respect your opinion and appreciate that your previous comment wasn't directed at emergency services, I agree with some and disagree with some. While its true that some negotiated items aren't available for the private sector, there are some things in the private sector that aren't available to public employees. You don't see a public employee getting any monetary bonuses, company limo's, or things of that nature. Everything we have, we negotiated for and the unions have fought for. I know a guy employed in the private sector for some aeronautics company, you know what an average bonus is for him? At least $80k! When was the last time a public employee was given a cash bonus(not saying they're entitled to, just making a point). No one is saying to a cop, "hey nice job with that drug bust, here's a check for $50k, good going!" As far as teachers and tenure, that's kinda the only place that they can hold any administration over a barrel. Not for nothing but they are handed a pretty monumental task, educating and in some cases babysitting our youth. I know where I live a good percentage of the kids are complete animals, and anyone that can keep some kind of order in a classroom gets a ton of respect from me. For the most part teachers are responsible for these kids 6-8 hours a day, and not to mention, overcrowding of schools, parents who take no responsibility for their children, and dealing with some of the problems that children take from their home. I know a bunch of teachers, and not only is it stressful for them to maintain order in their classroom, it also takes a toll on them psychologically. Some of these kids that come from the dredges of the earth, parents who are addicts, don't get properly clothed and fed at home, and come to school looking for attention. Do they deserve everything, I'll agree and say no, but I will say that being a teacher isn't all glitz and glamour. They face a different kind of adversity in the schools than we see on the street as emergency service providers. I think I'd rather see a gunshot or stabbing victim rather than have to see a child that is physically or mentally abused at home day in and day out, but that's just me. I wouldn't want to stand in the shoes of an educator.

Now that the republican senators have used the so-called nuclear option, unless it is overturned in court, once passed by the House and signed it'll become law in Wisconsin. And it'll stay that way unless in the next election cycle, the people vote out the republicans who supported this bill and repeal it.
I think it will happen.
According to polls, the people of Wisconsin strongly oppose certain parts of the bill which they feel are an encroachment on civil rights of workers in the state. Governor Walker has done an admirable job of polarizing his state and for that he'll most likely become an icon for republicans and conservatives for years to come.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...117472988.html
While the public workers may be down, they are definitely not out. I suspect it'll become the 1930's again in Wisconsin labor-wise; in some aspects I think it'll be good since many unionists know very little or nothing about unions in general and the sacrifices made back in the day when they fought street battles with management and company hired security hacks.Tthis is a wake up call to not only public employees but also those in the private sector who think they are immune from what took place in Wisconsin. Furthermore, fire and police will not be immune from future attacks on their unions; indeed Ohio, Indiana and New Jersey are contemplating changes in labor regarding the public sector in their respective states.
Make no bones about it, the public and private sector unions in other states are next on the republican's hit list. After all, the Republican Party owes its soul to the US Chamber of Commerce and Tea Party, so hopefully it'll galvanize everyone from both the private and public sectors to band together as brothers and sisters with a common bond to work to vote out the governor and every republican of either house who supported this bill.
Tonight, after it was announced that the republican senate in Wisconsin had passed the bill by 18-1, five of my co-workers, all staunch republicans revealed to us that they are so embarrassed by what their party did in Wisconsin, they plan on leaving the party and registering as independents.
I look forward with extreme enthusiasm to the next two years. I honestly believe that the Republicans have awakened a sleeping bear.

Great joke seen here on the web that's so appropriate for this discussion and others surrounding collective bargaining:
"A CEO, a tea party member, and a union worker are all sitting at a table when a plate with a dozen cookies arrives. Before anyone else can make a move, the CEO reaches out to rake in eleven of the cookies. When the other two look at him in surprise, the CEO locks eyes with the tea party member. "You better watch him," the executive says with a nod toward the union worker. "He wants a piece of your cookie."
As has been noted, sadly there's more truth than humor in the above. :angry:

Without a doubt the only people laughing all the way to the bank are the very rich. We basically have middle class citizens pitted against each other while the very rich continue to get tax breaks and federally subsidies for corporations making record profits. It's easy to turn private citizens against public employees as we're paid by their dime. Of course it's also easy to forget we too pay taxes and suffer from inflation, rising fuel costs and insurance premiums. Nevermind that some pension systems like the State one I'm in save the taxpayers .7% of each employees gross wages over social security and in the end our retirees are going to be less likely to need or even qualify for any government programs/subsidies saving the taxpayer even more money in the long run. The public only sees what they want someone to share their burden and save them money. Sadly the current path will only cause more people to be in misery and worsen the tax burden going forward.

Yes, the lights are blue and they make the rig able to carry more equipment and help the firemen on-board to be better at their jobs.

What I find interesting is we can cut to the bone American services in the interest of "balancing the budget" but out of that same bank account comes the "foreign aid" which remains uncut. We as a people should demand that the FIRST cut be foreign aid then domestic aid not the other way around. We have people going to sleep hungry and homeless within our own boarders for the sake of providing food and shelter to those in foreign lands. We as a people need to get our priorities in order and take care of our own first or at lease equally to those that we rush to. Watch late night TV and you are guaranteed to to see some actor or actress collecting for kids in some far away land. You don't see them collecting for the homeless kids in LA, the South Bronx, Miami, Detroit, Chicago, etc.
Just my two cents.

How much US money is being sent overseas in foreign aid every year? BILLIONS.
I'm not suggesting we eliminate it but if we reduced it by half and applied that toward programs that are sorely needed within our borders and to reduce the national debt. While I wholeheartedly support our country's support of developing nations, we must protect our own first and that simply isn't happening any more.
The tax code should also be simplified so everyone pays their fair share including the poorest right up to the richest corporations. Tax breaks for special interests are out of control.
Consolidation of duplicate or redundant government agencies needs to become a law. There's a federal and state Education Department but there're also local school districts. Why all three? Why are there so many independent school districts? Almost every one has a superintendent making around 200,000 per year. Why?
America's not broke but the government thinks it can just continue spending without a care in the world.
A balanced budget bill has been introduced in the US Senate. We should all lobby for its passage. How many of us are allowed to run up big deficits without any repercussions?

I'm pretty close to a bleeding hart liberal, and even I can't deal with Moore any further. I saw this story a day or two ago and I just can't get up the desire to read it. That being said, if American's spent an additional 2% on household items to buy American made products we'd create 200,000 more jobs. Republican and Democratic economic theory du jour all agree that creating jobs and spending money is good. 200,000 more people at work paying taxes and not receiving handouts has a much broader impact beyond the initial 200,000 jobs. How about people start there?? But then again the sale at WallMart saves me 50 cents on my milk and only costs me $12 in gas.

Matt,
I am sorry for your health issue and wish you the best.
As far as the Cancer "Presumption", that is a very tangled web. I am a career firefighter in a state with a Cancer Presumption Act and have seen first hand what a hassle it is to have cancer considered work related even in a presumption state. Despite the title that this act has it is certainly not "presumed" to be job related, it is still up the individual and the lawyer(s) to prove it was directly related to the job. All the State lawyers need to do is find out you smoked or used tobacco at some point in your life (we are prohibited from tobacco products in this state once we are hired) and all bets are off. The other tricky part is that the Cancer Presumption Act really doesn't take "effect" until you are on the job for 12 years. Just food for thought, I am not sure if this is the same case in other Presumption States.

Matt, I'm very sorry to hear of your health issue. Please accept my sincerest hopes that your future finds no further issues.
As far as the career vs. volunteer coverage, I'm not seeing a direct line or corollary to your issue. Does your diagnosis indicate the problem was as a result as your duties as a firefighter? I'm pretty certain none of my "career firefighter specific benefits" would include an illness or injury that was not job-related. My healthcare benefits as an employee would. The difference is that my healthcare benefit as a career firefighter is the same as our police officers, public works crews, and clerical staff. I would assume that your healthcare plan provided by your primary employer would be key. Of course I know many do not have health insurance which is a huge issue we all struggle to answer. My point being my healthcare benefits as a career firefighter are really just healthcare benefits as an employee on a job where healthcare is offered and constantly renegotiated and adjusted. I must give you that I'm not a career firefighter in NY, but I know of no specific benefits that are only extended to career firefighters in my state.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

Matt, I'm very sorry to hear of your health issue. Please accept my sincerest hopes that your future finds no further issues.
As far as the career vs. volunteer coverage, I'm not seeing a direct line or corollary to your issue. Does your diagnosis indicate the problem was as a result as your duties as a firefighter? I'm pretty certain none of my "career firefighter specific benefits" would include an illness or injury that was not job-related. My healthcare benefits as an employee would. The difference is that my healthcare benefit as a career firefighter is the same as our police officers, public works crews, and clerical staff. I would assume that your healthcare plan provided by your primary employer would be key. Of course I know many do not have health insurance which is a huge issue we all struggle to answer. My point being my healthcare benefits as a career firefighter are really just healthcare benefits as an employee on a job where healthcare is offered and constantly renegotiated and adjusted. I must give you that I'm not a career firefighter in NY, but I know of no specific benefits that are only extended to career firefighters in my state.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

Brotherhood isn't gone. I see the same brotherhood that I had (and still have as a retiree) in my sons and the brothers in their FD. It's thhe same brotherhood I saw when my father was on the job. Sometimes you have to look a little harder than you would like, but the brothers are still here today.
It's not in drinkin' with the guys or playing softball, or the union or the vols association. Our brotherhood is an attitude, a code of conduct,if you will. It's helping a brother move to a new home; it's covering his shift because he is out of sick time; it's giving him a hand when you see him struggling with a task.
Brotherhood was in full speed on 9/11. The world saw them respond. What I saw also were guys reporting for work without being recalled to duty. In their hands were their own private colection of sawzalls, sledges, prybars, etc. They were going to look for their brothers.
How do you find one of these true brothers? You might have to wait until the circumstances are just right. For example, you might be advancing a line down a hallway. It starts getting hot, smoke is banking down lowering your visibility. You don't want to admit it, but you are getting a little scared, and now the heat and smoke have got you as low to the floor as you can get. Look over your shoulder. You should just be able to make out a dim flashlight, just about a foot behind you.
THAT is your brother. Take care of eachother.

With all respect Brother "Men Of Fire" I have to disagree with you. As far back as firefighting goes, there have been hairbags that come into the service either by volunteering, or somehow scoring well enough and bluffing their way onto a career job.
But we cannot take a broad stroke of the brush and paint all junior men/women into one complete group of people in the service who do not care about keeping the traditions, the nobility and the comrade-re of the Brotherhood alive. As an example, just look at how many of our members here on Bravo in the younger age group have become such active members here, and show so much interest in those traditions, and learning "the ways" of the fire service.
I remember hearing senior men, when I was a junior man, extolling their observations that the Brotherhood wasn't what it used to be; that the Brotherhood was doomed to extinction.
Those that do believe in the virtues of our Brotherhood need to be reassured by senior men such as yourself, that the traditions you speak of are indeed still alive, and need to develop the belief in themselves that they are part of something larger than just a job, and need to be taught that they will in the near future be the ones responsible for carrying on the Brotherhood, when they move into positions of seniority, promotion, and leadership.
If we truly care enough in our fraternity to want it to survive and thrive well into the future, then senior men today need to redouble their efforts in seeing to it that these junior men are properly taught about the sacrifices our fore bearers gave to this noblest of professions. All members in senior positions, and leadership today need to be asking themselves a very personal question; are my judgments about the future being clouded by my personal disappointments about things that have happened to me through the years of my career?
It becomes very difficult at times as the years pass, to maintain the motivation to want to pass on our finest traditions. To want to help our junior members succeed in gaining the true understanding of how the Brotherhood continues to evolve, through generations of sacrifice, members being killed in the performance of their duty, members fighting to gain workplace improvements through the collective bargaining process, and members becoming sick through a lack of workplace safety.
I always believed the best way to educate our younger members about these things was to show them examples of what conditions were like before improvements were made. To tell them the stories of what our members went through to gain the improvements we have in place today.
Some things obviously cannot be easily taught. Some things members are just going to have to learn for themselves; generosity and caring for each other, being able to forgive each other for mistakes and not hold grudges.
But I truly understand how you feel. Sometimes it feels like paddling upstream against an overwhelming current. Sometimes we just want to throw it all down, and simply walk away. But the past generations of Brothers who fought so hard for all of the improvements we enjoy today; the firefighers who never got the chance to enjoy some of those improvements, because they got sick or were killed from the very things they were fighting so hard to improve; for the memory of these Brothers passed, we owe it to their memory to continue the fight. To continue to impress upon on our newer generation of firefighters that some things are worth fighting for, some things are worth giving our all for; and the Brotherhood is the greatest of attributes we share in the fire service.
It may not feel like you are making much headway in passing these lessons on, but I guarantee you when the time comes and you have moved on from the job; if you have put in the effort to share with your newer members all of the greatest things about the Brotherhood, your efforts shall not have been in vain.

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...

Dear Governor,
Remember that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike."
- Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933

If you exclude wild rigs like Bronto Skylifts and such, I believe that Sutphen is the only other make of a true TOWER LADDER. I'd bet that the spec all but excludes anyone else simply based on the fact that Seagrave owns Aerialscope and that's all the city really wants. Truth be told, while the Aerialscope platform is fantastic, I'm sure that many who work in companys with a a TL and in the shops would rather see another rig under that boom. The 2006ish order of 75' TLs and 95' TLs was terrible. A lot of those rigs have spent more time O.O.S. than in. Many gremlins effected their operation.

Your point of view is honorable with regard to the fire truck. I disagree with it however as do I object to your notion that we think of our selves more than others. The taxpayers of this nation (and lets face it the 80/20 rule applies to those I'm referring to as taxpayers) have funded the rest of the world's problems for years. We need to be taking a better look at what is going on right here at home as we have done more than our part across the globe. In 2008 (the most recent data a could quickly come up with) the USA gave $49,057,000,000 in foreign aid to the rest of the world... Forty-nine billion.... That's $158.24 for each individual populating the USA (let alone citizens... or people who actually pay taxes for that matter.)
I'm not advocating never giving a dime overseas again, but rather that we take a better look at where our money can be put to use right here at home. If that rig was needed in the USA then here it should stay.

A few shots from the exposure.... exposure.... which side would you call this?
These shots don't do the LDH lays justice. There's a LOT of hose out there to be picked up. Glad everyone is OK!

Once again, as a volunteer, I completely disagree with this statement, and don't want to be grouped into this separated mentality that we can never get along. All the career guys want, and believe it or not some of us vollies too, are equal standards across the board. How hard is that to contest? Wouldn't you want someone who was equal to you in all aspects, working along side what ever job you're doing, regardless of how dangerous it was? Wouldn't that make for a smoother operation, smother transition of information, smoother everything?
Every department has the "The A-team," "The-B squad," and the "Man I would hate to go into a hot yob with that guy," firemen. What separates the A's, the B's and the wtf is he doing in this service, is the amount of training and the quality of training that each individual undergo's. I don't think the worlds best archery shooter only trains for 100 hrs a year. He does it day in and day out year round, and always attempts to get better, because there is no such thing as perfect.... unless you're Jessica Alba, because she is perfect.

What a bunch of baloney. You've got some nerve grouping all career firefighters' opinions, and all volunteer firefighters' opinions into two polarized positions.
Grow some skin huh...and while you're at it, read Izzy's post about Brotherhood. You might learn something.