INIT915

Dont Orange County property owners benifit from having all the properties that are undisirable in one place? Dont most home buyers look to avoid having places like this on their block?
This is one reason why most of the country has county wide services, everyone benifits.

From a legal standpoint, the issue being addressed by the District Court Judge is one of "disparate impact." He (or the plaintiffs) don't have to show how or why the pass rates for minorities/non-minorities are so different (hell, they don't even have to understand why there is a disparity), rather, the plaintiff only has to show there is a statistical anomaly, and in the end the protected class can meet the minimum practical responsibilities of the job. The concept was developed (or more appropriately honed) in Griggs v. Duke Power, in the 1970's.
As unfair as it seems (and I am one who does believe it is unfair), this Judge is unfortunately just following precedent. What needs to done is a ruling from a Court of Record (COR) essentially modifying existing precedent. Some of the SCOTUS argument in Ricci v. NH did that, so in this case NYC will have a leg to stand on that it didn't only a few years ago. The ironic thing is if he ruled for NYC, we would be calling him an "activist judge."
While I disagree with this ruling, I don't envy the rock and the hard place this Judge is in, ruling between precedent and what is, in my personal opinion, the right thing to do. NYC's best avenue of regress here is an appellant argument, relying heavily on the Ricci decision.

First, one of the things I love about sites like this is that anyone of any age or background can get us up and talking about stuff. I think this is great and this is not a bad question. We should all be able to answer it. To rephrase it a bit, why put them on in the first place ?
Any call for aid probably trumps what the majority of citizens are out doing in their cars on a given morning. The ability to cross the yellow line, to use the oncoming lane, to not wait for 6 cars waiting for a light to change and then turn left,.....well, lights or sirens help us do that. Abiding by every traffic control device and waiting for every driver in front of us is using a lot of time that most drivers will gladly give us if they know we have someplace to go. Lights and sirens let other drivers know a vehicle may not be where they expect it to be and that that vehicle would like a little courtesy.
Lights and sirens are like any other tool, useful if used wisely and for an intended purpose. Light functions in a straight line. It is very useful for signaling oncoming traffic and moderately useful for signaling same direction traffic ahead [if the driver is using his rear view mirror for more than hanging fuzzy dice]. Lights have no effect on traffic that is not direct line of sight.
Sound MAY--and that's a huge 'may'--- signal drivers not in line of sight. Physics here is key and I will skip the details unless people really want me to dig it up, but given sight lines in intersections, sound proofing in cars, reaction time of sober adults, and speed through intersections------- 10 to 15 miles an hour is as fast as a vehicle RLS can enter an intersection against a stop sign or red light. And that is if no one is texting.
So for me, lights [and much less often, sirens] is a way to say, "Excuse me." and move to the head of the line , but it doesn't mean one has to significantly increase speed. And if one does increase speed to the point that one outruns the usefulness of the lights and sirens, then that person is begging to have a collision for which that person will be responsible,and which will significantly increase response time for that call.
So, yes light and sirens are an essential part of the conversation that emergency vehicles have with other vehicles out on the road. But that conversation is a dialogue, not a monologue. Lights and sirens in no way give us the right to be aggressive with or disrespectful to other drivers.

Date: 9/12/10
Time: 16:25 hours
Location: 59-24 67 ave x Forest Ave
Frequency: FDNY Queens
Weather Conditions: light rain
Description Of Incident: fully involved 2nd floor on arrival
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Ridgewood, Queens, NY, 9/12/10
Address: 59-24 67 ave between 60 st and Forest Ave
16:26 hours
Phone Box 4121 - Report of a structural fire
Engs. 291, 286, 277
L140, TL135
Battalion 28
16:27 hours
Now receiving multiple calls
E271
Squad 288
Rescue 4
10-75-4121 - 16:30 hours
L112 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 37
Division 14
2-2-4121 - 16:30 hours
E291: 2nd Alarm, we have a fully involved roof and 2nd floor!
Engs. 218, 319, 233, 206
E324 w/ Satellite 4
TL124, L176
Battalion 44 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 46 (Resource Unit Leader)
Safety, Rescue Battalions
Tactical Support 1
FieldCom 1, Command Tactical Unit
RAC2
16:33 hours - Duration 9 minutes
Battalion 28: 4121, we've got a fire on the 2nd floor of a 2 story frame. Fire's Doubtful, trucks are opening up, k. Approximately 25x50, k.
Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - 1 story garage
3 - unknown
4 - similar
16:34 hours
BC28: Have ConEd respond forthwith, we have electrical wires sparking, k.
16:36 hours - Duration 11 minutes
BC28: Fire is darkening down, trucks are opening up, fire remains Doubtful.
16:39 hours
The staging area is Forest Ave and Woodbine St
16:44 hours
FieldCom: 2nd Alarm Box 4121, can you put a notification to ConEd electric, we have overhead power lines that are affecting the operation, k.
16:45 hours
ConEd reports a 1 hour ETA
16:48 hours
FieldCom is 10-8, Division 14 is radio contact
16:49 hours - Duration 24 minutes
Division 14: Primaries are negative, all fire is knocked down, Probably Will Hold.
16:59 hours - Duration 35 minutes
DC14: Fire's Under Control.
Relocations:
E298/291, L154/140

Date: 9/10/10
Time: 00:30 hours
Location: E39 st x 3rd Ave
Frequency: FDNY Manhattan
Weather Conditions: cool and windy
Description Of Incident: fire through the roof on arrival
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
East Midtown, Manhattan, NY, 9/10/10
Address: 593 3rd Ave @ E39 st
Also affected: 200 E 39 st @ 3rd Ave
00:33 hours
Phone Box 753 - Report of fire from the roof of a restaurant
Engs 65, 8, 1
TL7, L24
Battalion 9

00:33 hours
E21, Battalion 8 re-directed in
10-75-753 - 00:34 hours
E21: 10-75, we have fire in a 1 story taxpayer, fire showing through the roof!
E16
L4 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 9 designated the "10-75 Chief"
Division 3
Rescue 1
Squad 18
7-5-753 - 00:37 hours
Battalion 8: We've got fire through the roof, can you send us another truck, k, All-Hands, send us a tower ladder, k.
TL21 S/C
RAC1
00:41 hours - Duration 9 minutes
Fire Building Height/Size-up:
Commercial 1 story 100x75 Taxpayer
Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - street
3 - 3 story MD
4 - 5 story MD
2-2-753 - 00:45 hours
Engs. 26, 14, 54
E207 w/ Satellite 6
L2
Battalion 6 re-directed in as the "Safety Officer"
Battalion 7 (Resource Unit Leader)
Rescue, Safety Battalion
Tactical Support 1
FieldCom 1

00:48 hours
Division 3: Command Post is set up on the corner of 3rd Ave and 39th st, have all units report in to the Command Post.
00:54 hours
TL12, L3, Battalion 10 S/C
00:55 hours - Duration 23 minutes
DC3: Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st, we have a taxpayer, 1 story, dimensions 100x75, fire's located on the 1st floor, possible extension through the roof and into the cockloft. We have 2 lines stretched in operation, 1st line to the 1st floor, 2nd to the roof. Primary searches are in progress. At this time the fire is Doubtful, k.
01:10 hours
The staging area is E41 st and 3rd Ave
3-3-753 - 01:12 hours
FC: As per the 3rd division, transmit the 3rd Alarm. We have a smoke condition in the basement, main body of fire has been knocked down, checking for extension, checking the integrity of the building. Also can we get an extra Battalion Chief on the 3rd.
Engs. 34, 3, 263 acting 5, 39
Battalions 35 acting 6, 1
Battalion 45 (Staging Manager)
Mask Service Unit
Car 1E (Commissioner's Liaison)
Car 13A (AC Richard Tobin, Assistant Chief of Fire Prevention)
01:21 hours
FC: I have a correction on the address: the address is 593 3rd, and that's a 100x25 on the dimensions. That's connected to 200 E39, and that's 50x100.
01:34 hours - Duration 1 hour 2 minutes
FC: Progress report on 3rd Alarm Box 753, AC Tobin, Car 13A, reports: he has heavy fire in the cockloft of 200 East 39. He's removed all members from the fire building. They are going to an exterior operation. Moving tower ladders around to put them into operation. Request 2 trucks to respond to the staging area.
TL9, L11 S/C
01:37 hours
FC: Also notify the utilities, gas and electric, to respond, to shut down supply to the building.
01:39 hours
Fuel Tender Unit is 10-84
01:42 hours - Duration 1 hour 10 minutes
FC: Progress report on 3rd Alarm Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st at 3rd Ave, AC Tobin, Car 13A, reports: All members have been removed from the building and the roof area. Tower Ladders are set up and in operation. Fire is still being caried as Doubtful. Roll call has been conducted and all members are accounted for.
01:52 hours
FC: At this time exposure 3 and exposure 4 have been evacuated.
01:53 hours
Battalion 39-Air Recon is airborne and has a 5 minute ETA.
01:55 hours
ConEd Gas reports on-scene
ConEd Electric reports an ETA of under 1 hour
02:22 hours
FC: Progress report for your 3rd Alarm Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st at 3rd Ave, 1 story 50x100. AC Tobin, Car 13A reports: 2 tower ladders in operation, 1 mult-versatile in operation, 1 hand line in operation. It's an.exterior operation All occupants have been accounted for. This is going to be a long term exterior operation. Still Doubtful.
02:24 hours
Receiving the address 235 E 39 st reporting smoke in apartment 3R
4-4-753 - 02:24 hours
Engs. 33, 28, 40, 22
E262 w/ IMT Unit
Battalion 4 (Planning Sections Chief)
02:28 hours
FC: Have 1 engine from the 4th Alarm respond to the southwest corner of 39 st and 2nd Ave to pick up a hydrant at that location
02:31 hours
Receiving the address 235 E 40 st reporting smoke in apartment 5B
02:33 hours
FC: Please special call 3 trucks to the 4th Alarm, have them respond to the staging area. Also you can turn around E262, the Planning Chief, and the Planning Vehicle.
T20, T5, L16 S/C
02:40 hours
Receiving the address 240 E39 st, apartment 8H, caller reports her apartment is "getting hot."
02:43 hours
FC: Units checked out 235 E40, 5B, it was odor of smoke from the 4th alarm.
02:45 hours
Car 12 (DAC Stephen Raynis, Chief of Safety and Inspectional Services) is responding

02:52 hours
Car 36B (Department Chaplain) is responding

02:56 hours
FC: Units checked 235 East 39, 3R, that was an odor from the 4th alarm. They also checked out 240 East 39, 8H, that was also an odor of smoke.
03:27 hours - Duration 2 hours 55 minutes
FC: At your 4th Alarm Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st, 2nd to 3rd Aves, Car 13A, AC Tobin reports: This is going to be an extended exterior operation. He's got 3 multi-versatiles in operation, 2 tower ladders in operation, 2 handlines in operation. Still trying to put out pockets of fire within the cockloft area, still Doubtful Will Hold.
5-5-753 - 04:18 hours
FC: At 4th Alarm Box 753, Car 13A, AC Tobin, would like to transmit a 5th Alarm for relief purposes, have them respond to the staging area. Also places this fire Probably Will Hold, this will be an extensive exterior operation. On the 5th Alarm can you give us the two trucks please.
Engs. 23, 44, 40?, 258
TL13, TL35?

04:51 hours
FC: Special call 1 Battalion Chief to the scene, he's going to replace the Safety Battalion. Also special call another RAC unit to the scene to replace the one we have.
Battalion 32 (Safety Officer), RAC3 S/C
04:59 hours
L30 (FAST Truck) S/C
05:18 hours
FC: we're going to need PD for security at the addresses 589 and 591 3rd Ave
05:56 hours
FC: Progress report for 5th Alarm Box 753, address 200 East 39 st, at 3rd Ave, AC Tobin, Car 13A reports: They are swapping out tower ladders. Still extinguishing pockets of fire. They're operating outside the collapse area. Conditions remain unchanged, this will be a prolonged operation. It will be Probably Will Hold still, and we will need 3 engines, 2 trucks, and 3 Battalion Chiefs for relief purposes.
Engs. 35, 4 15 S/C
TL1, TL22 S/C
Battalions 16, 3, 17 S/C
06:13 hours
FC: If you have one of those engines, have it come down 3rd Ave from above 40th st, and they will take the hydrant on 39th st and supply the Tower Ladder.
06:25 hours
FC: If you could raise the chiefs coming in on the 5th Alarm, just have them come into the Command Post.
06:59 hours
Tactical Support 2 is responding to relieve Tactical Support 1
07:05 hours - Duration 6 hours 35 minutes
FC: 5th Alarm Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st, AC Tobin, Car 13A, reports: still operating with 2 tower ladders, 2 handlines, and 2 multi-versatiles. There's a complete collapse of the roof area. Still trying to get to pockets of fire with some difficulty due to the complete roof collapse. Still an exterior operation, conditions remain unchanged, still Probably Will Hold.
07:20 hours
E23 reports a verbal for a manhole pushing black smoke at E 41 st and 3rd Ave
07:50 hours - Duration 7 hours 18 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 5th Alarm Box 753, the address 200 East 39 st off of 3rd Ave, at this time AC Tobin, Car 13A places this fire Under Control. Also reports this is an extensive hydraulic overhaul, he's going to need the use of an All-Hands assignment. We will look for that assignment for relief at 0900 hours.
Relocations:
Engines: 239/3, 292/14, 91/16, 47/21, 291/23, 237/26, 224/28, 73/44, 221/65
Ladders: 8/4, 110/5, 101/3, 31/13, 28/20, 26/24
Battalions: 57/1, 35/6, 46/7, 12/8

Date: 9/8/10
Time: 14:48 hours
Location: Great Kills Park
Frequency: FDNY Staten Island
Weather Conditions: clear and windy
Description Of Incident: 2 large areas of brush going, reports of firefighters surrounded by fire
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Great Kills Park, Staten Island, NY, 9/8/10
Location: Great Kills Blvd and Buffalo St and Hylan Blvd
14:48 hours
Phone Box 3069 - Report of a brush fire
Engs. 243, 224 acting 154, 157, 241
TL161 acting 85
Battalion 48 acting 21
14:48 hours
Battalion 21: We're passing Great Kills Park, looks like we've got a brush fire going. Advise units, 1 at the airplanes field, one off of Hylan Blvd.
Battalion 21 directed to continue to 3-3-3613.
14:56 hours
Battalion 48 acting 21 will be delayed responding from Brooklyn
2-2-3069 - 15:01 hours
L161 acting, URGENT. We've got two large areas, 2nd alarm.
7-5-3069 - 15:01 hours
L161/85: Cancel the 2nd Alarm, make it All-Hands on Arrival
E247
L78
Battalion 4 acting 8
Division 1
*no FAST truck, RAC unit, Rescue, Squad, or Satellite immediately available
15:07 hours
L161/85: We and 243 stopped on the street right off Gateway, right off the entrance, and there's a separate fire going by the model airplane field.
15:11 hours
TL149 (FAST Truck)
15:15 hours
Richmond Engine Co. 1, T147 S/C
15:23 hours
E205 w/ BFU1 available assigned
15:26 hours
E219 acting 201 assigned
3-3-3069 - 15:31 hours
Engs. 201 acting 166, 151, 4 acting 242, 28 acting 160
TL105 acting 172, TL153 acting 87, L109, TL172
Battalion 38 acting 40
Rescue 2
Squad 18
15:34 hours
BC48/21: Have the units respond to the sewage treatment plant on the other side of the park. That's the 2nd area of fire, it's jumped the road.
15:36 hours
Car 7 (DAC James Leonard, Brooklyn Borough Commander) is responding, recommends switching Bronx frequency to Citywide due to frequent interference
15:38 hours
E241 to Staten Island, URGENT! Have an engine head towards the park road, towards the Park Ranger Houses, we've got fire on both sides of us here!
15:39 hours
Rescue Battalion is re-directing in
15:39 hours
Rescue Battalion, Tactical Support 2 is re-directing in
15:45 hours
Squad 1 available replacing Squad 18
15:46 hours
Car 1D (Commissioner's Liaison) is responding
4-4-3069 - 15:48 hours
Car 7: The Urgent has been resolved, the unit has been found. What I need you to do is transmit the 4th Alarm. Send the 4th Alarm into the Fox Beach area, we have a large area of brush both sides of the park, heavy winds blowing towards the north.
Engs. 330, 210 acting 202, 211 acting 240
E284 w/ Satellite 3
L148 acting ??
Battalion 31
Battalion 28 (Staging Manager)
Battalion 43 (Air Recon)
FieldCom 1
15:51 hours - Duration 1 hour 8 minutes
Car 7: Division 1 is on scene and we have a staging area at Buffalo St and Wetland Rd which is the airplane road. We've set up the command channel. WE still have a large area of brush, heavy fire conditions, and that's the end of the progress report. Fire jumped the road and it's headed into Fox Beach.
15:51 hours
Car 13 (AC Thomas Jensen, Chief of Fire Prevention) is responding
15:55 hours
Car 7: Get the Air-Recon Chief, I need him to do a survey of the Fox Beach area quick, tell us if there's fire heading towards the houses there, we have heavy fire heading that way.
15:59 hours
NYPD Aviation reports they are preparing Bambi bucket drops.
Car 7: Do not have them drop! We have companies heavily engaged, advised them do NOT drop!
16:01 hours
A staging area has been established at the quarters of E160
E207 w/ Satellite 6 is relocating to E159/Satellite 5
16:01 hours
Car 7: Have Air Recon come up on channel 2, primary command.
16:05 hours
Car 7: Have NYPD Aviation come up on our frequency, do we have any units in Fox Beach yet? We need a report from any units in Fox Beach!
16:07 hours
E282 is operating*
Note: E282 was originally assigned to investigate reports of fire at another Box and advised they were operating at the 4th. When SI advised them to respond to their previous Box, they replied "We have our deck gun and 2 lines stretched off our engine!"
16:09 hours
Car 7: Have DEP respond to the scene, we're having some water problems.
16:14 hours
HazMat 1, HazMat Battalion S/C to respond to the Sewage Treatment Plant
Car 12 (DAC Stephen Raynis, Chief of Safety and Inspectional Services) is responding.

16:14 hours
Box changed to 8480
16:17 hours
Bronx frequency is now operating on Citywide.
16:33 hours
FieldCom: Have E239 w/ BFU5 report to Hylan Blvd to Keegans Ln, have them report in to the Rescue Battalion
16:37 hours - Duration 1 hours 54 minutes
FC: 4th Alarm Box 8480, AC Jensen reports: in the Great Kills Section we have 5 handlines stretched in operation, 4 tower ladders operating. Still have heavy fire with high wind conditions. In the Fox Beach sector, the houses are protected at this time, the fire seems to be moving towards the water. Still Doubtful.
16:41 hours
FC: The chief would like the Polaris Unit dispatched to the scene.
16:53 hours
Marines 8 and 3 are 10-84 and operating by the DEP building
16:59 hours - Duration 2 hours 16 minutes
FC: At this time members are being removed from the wooded areas and back to the road, and Air-Recon and PD Aviation will be dropping with the Bambi Buckets.
17:16 hours
FC: The Helicopter with Battalion 43, he's going to head back to the base for fuel. There is a NYPD Helicopter on the scene, is there anyway to get that Helicopter onto Tac U.
17:32 hours
RAC4 available assigned
17:33 hours
FC: Have the RAC unit come in through the entrance off Buffalo, have them come as close to the Command Post as they can.
17:58 hours - Duration 3 hours 15 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 4th Alarm Box 8480, at Gateway National Park, AC Jensen reports: numerous handlines and tls in operations. PD Bambi Bucket operation has commenced and is continuing. All exposures have been protected at this time and still Doubtful.
5-5-8480 - 18:17 hours
FC: By orders of AC Jenson, transmit a 5th Alarm, all units to report to the staging area (Buffalo St and Wetland Rd)
Engs. 231 acting 254, 228, 34 acting 161, 310 acting 243
T147, L174 acting 168
Safety Battalion
*5th alarm engines and trucks responding from Staging Box 400 @ quarters of E160
18:18 hours
FC: Have the units responding on the 5th Alarm respond to Buffalo and Hylan, the 58 Battalion is there.
6-6-8480 - 18:49 hours
Engs. 23, 248, 323, 21 acting 154 S/C
L126 acting 174, TL1 acting 114 S/C
*6th Alarm companies responding from Staging Box 400
18:53 hours
FC: We need a Battalion Chief to respond to Fox Lane, he will operate with E34, E231, and L147
Battalion 26 acting 45 S/C
18:59 hours
E207 acting 159 w/ Satellite 6 acting 5 S/C
19:05 hours
L10 is at the tolls for the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, assigned to the 6th. L126 acting 174 re-directed to Staging Box 400
19:08 hours
SI requests the locations of E254 acting 167 and L118 acting ??; companies were assigned to another Box in Fox Lane prior, and may now be operating at the 6th.
19:09 hours
FC: 118 is operating here, and we're checking on 254 now.
19:23 hours - Duration 4 hours 40 minutes
FC requests a mixer-off message
19:27 hours
TL105: We're operating at Bulkhead Rd, can you get in contact with the Command Post, have them send a RAC unit down Hylan Blvd past Keegan Blvd, we have a lot of companies down here that are going to need hydrating.
RAC2 S/C
19:31 hours
Marine 6 S/C
19:40 hours
FieldCom confirms that Command Tactical Unit is operating
19:42 hours - Duration 5 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 6th Alarm Box 8480, at Gateway National Park, Chief Jensen reports the fire is darkening down. Still extinguishing pockets of fire. Having flare ups in various locations. This will be an extended operation, fire is Doubtful.
20:00 hours - Duration 5 hours 17 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 6th Alarm Box 8480, at Gateway National Park Recreational Area, Chief Jensen reports the main, still knocked down pockets of fire, places this fire Probably Will Hold.
20:07 hours
FC: By orders of Chief Jensen, special call 1 Deputy Chief, 2 Battalion Chiefs, and 4 Engine companies. Can you make sure those companies have the night tour.
Engs. 162, 156, 240, 152
Battalion 10, 33 acting 23 S/C
Division 6 S/C
22:00 hours - Duration 7 hours 19 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 6th Alarm Box 8480, Gateway National Park, at this time AC Jensen places the fire Under Control. Special call 3 engine companies.
Engs. 245, 224, 276 acting 162 S/C

Date: 9/9/10
Time: 09:45 hours (continuation of operations from previous 6th Alarm)
Location: Great Kills Park
Frequency: FDNY Staten Island
Weather Conditions: overcast, windy
Description Of Incident: rekindle of brush driven by high winds
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Great Kills, Staten Island, NY, 9/9/10
Location: Great Kills Park @ Buffalo St and Hylan Blvd
Engs. 161, 162, L83, Battalion 21 operating watchline
09:43 hours
Battalion 21: At the scene of the 6th Alarm Box 8480, can you special call 2 engines, 2 trucks, and BFU, we have an area of smoldering that's being taken up with the wind. E162 is stretching a line out to attack it.
Engs. 165, 155 acting 167 S/C
E164 w/ BFU1
L82, TL85 S/C
7-5-8480 - 09:48 hours
BC21: We have a small area of smoldering going. We'll go with All-Hands. We don't need any special units, we'll operate with what we have on arrival, k.
10:38 hours
Battalion 21 requests the Division 8 messenger vehicle to rotate night and day tour members for E161, L83.
10:43 hours
Division 8 is responding
10:53 hours
DC8: Box 8480 we're continuing to use All-Hands, Division 8 is on-scene.
11:06 hours
DC8: By orders of Division 8, special call 2 engine companies due to the wind picking up and starting up pockets. They can drive down into the park and we'll direct them where to go.
Engs. 160, 163 S/C
11:18 hours
DC8: Box 8480, FD's going to be here for an extended operation. We're in contact with Parks, and they're in the process of getting additional resources in to clear the park.
11:27 hours
DC8: At the continuing operations at Gateway Park, we will need RAC unit and a FAST Truck, k.
L84 (FAST Truck)
RAC 5
11:34 hours
Receiving a call for Tarlton St and Cedar Grove Ave reporting fire approaching the sewage treatment plant.
E201 acting 165 S/C to Tarlton St and Cedar Grove Ave to investigate
11:35 hours
DC8: Just be advised we have multiple fires that are springing up as the wind gusts through this area, k.
2-2-8480 -11:36 hours
E154 w/ BFU 4
E152 w/ Satellite 5
L81
Battalion 42 (All-Hands Chief)
Battalion 22 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 43 (Resource Unit Leader)
Rescue, Safety Battalions
Rescue 5
Tactical Support 2
Squad 252
FieldCom 1

11:37 hours
DC8: Re-direct E201, have him come right into me, I have visible fire in the area heading towards the houses.
E201 acting 165 re-directed
11:40 hours
DC8: Advise those units on the 2nd alarm to come to Hylan Blvd and come down Chesterton, that's the block before Buffalo. I need them to meet me at Grayson and Chesterson. We have some homes that are exposed, k.
11:42 hours
E159 available replacing E152

11:45 hours
DC8: Have all 2nd Alarm units respond to Chesterton and Grayson.
11:48 hours
DC8: Have FieldCom and the Satellite respond to the park off Buffalo.
11:48 hours
Receiving a call for Dugdale and Riga Sts
11:50 hours
E159 will respond to Hylan Blvd and Buffalo St and set up on the water main to supply companies.
11:52 hours
Now receiving the addresses 518 Merkle Pl and 48 Fox Beach Ave
11:57 hours
DC8: Special call a tower ladder, have them respond to Chesterton and Grayson.
TL86 S/C
11:59 hours
Marine 8 S/C to respond to Fox Beach
3-3-8480 - 12:04 hours
DC8: Transmit a 3rd Alarm, have the companies respond to the sewage treatment plant
Engs. 152, 168, 156, 153
TL79, TL76
Battalion 57
Batatlion 40 (Staging Manager)
Battalion 39 (Air-Recon Chief)
Car 8 (DAC Michael Marrone, Staten Island Borough Commander)

12:05 hours
TL149 acting ?? is available in the area replacing TL76
12:07 hours
Rescue 5: We're at Riga and Dugdale, we need a couple of engines here right away, it's approaching the houses.
12:08 hours
Battalion 40 re-directed to Riga and Dugdale
Battalion 43 re-directed to the sewage plant.
12:09 hours
DC8: All third alarm units, have them come to Riga and Dugdale. Have them turn down to Guyon Ave, head down Riga, then turn right at Dugdale, we need those engines here right away
12:13 hours
Receiving a call for Delwitt Ave reporting fire 100 feet from the houses
12:14 hours
Fallback Step III has been implemented in Staten Island.
4-4-8480 - 12:26 hours
DC8: Transmit a 4th Alarm, and have those units respond to the sewage treatment plant. Have Battalion 39 go in the air.
Engs. 157, 253, 241, 282
E262 w/ IMT Unit
L168, L148
Battalion 4 (Planning Sections Chief)
Marine 6
12:28 hours - Clarification for FieldCom
2nd Alarm are operating inside the park w/ Division 8
3rd Alarm companies are operating at Riga St and Delwitt Ave w/ Battalion 40
4th Alarm companies are responding to the Sewage Treatment Plant
12:31 hours - Clarification of the Command Post location
FieldCom: We are with Division 8 at Mill Rd and Delwiit
12:35 hours
DC8: I have E153 at Delwit and Mill Rd, and I need the next available, the next closest engine available.
E241 re-directed
12:36 hours
FC: Switch their handy talkies to the command channel.
12:37 hours
Battalion 57 is re-directed to the Sewage Treatment Plant
12:44 hours - Duration 2 hours
Marine 8: We're just south of the sewage treatment plant, from our viewpoint we've got some smoldering going on, possibly in the vicinity of Great Kills Lane, it's out of our reach. Just a suggestion, if you can get some units down there and set up a tower ladder, the embers are starting to kick up. They had companies there yesterday, maybe special call an extra engine and truck to prevent this large area from going up again.
12:44 hours
Bronx frequency is now operating on Citywide to avoid interference.
12:48 hours - Duration 2 hours 3 minutes
FC: Progress report for Box 8480, Car 8, DAC Marrone reports: 3 tower ladders set up in operation, 5 deck guns in operation, numerous handlines in operation. All exposed houses are protected. At this time we have 4 sectors operating: Chesterson and Grayson, Riga and Dugdale, Delwitt and Mill, and the sewage treatment plant Mill Rd. Fire is Doubtful. Special call 1 tower ladder to respond to the sewage treatment plant.
TL76
13:04 hours - Duration 2 hours 20 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 4th Alarm Box 8480, Gateway National Park, In the Great Kills Zon, Car 8, DAC Marrone reports heavy fire conditions in the brush. At this time conditions remain the same. Still operating with 3 tower ladders, 5 deck guns, numerous handlines, all exposed homes are still protected and the fire is sitll Doubtful Will Hold, k.
13:23 hours - Duration 2 hours 37 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 4th Alarm Box 8480, Gateway National Park, in the Great Kills Zone, for a large brush fire, at this time Car 8, DAC Marrone reports: continuing to operate with the previous set up of 3 tower ladders, 5 deck guns, numerous handlines, all exposed houses are still protected. In addition to FD units we are operating with 2 Parks Dept brush fire units. Areas of fire have been knocked down, units are maintaining their positions, still have a large fire in the center of the park. Still Doubtful Will Hold.
14:00 hours - Duration 3 hours 16 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 4th Alarm Box 8480, Gateway National Park, in the Great Kills Zone, Car 8, DAC Marrone reports: all visible fire has been knocked down. Units continuing to wet down the area, fire Probably Will Hold.
5-5-8480 - 14:20 hours - Duration 3 hours 30 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 4th Alarm Box 8480, Gateway National Park, in the Great Kills Zone, Car 8, DAC Marrone places the fire Under Control. With that Under Control he would like to transmit the 5th Alarm for relief. That 5th alarm is to be as follows: 6 engines, 4 tower ladders, and 2 Battalion Chiefs. They are to be assigned as follows: 4 engines, 2 tower ladders, and Battalion Chief to Buffalo into the park. 1 engine, 1 tower ladder, 1 Battalion Chief to Delwitt and Mill. 1 engine, 1 tower ladder to Chesterton and Grayson.
Engs 281, 228, 202, 205, TL114, TL105, Battalion 23 to the park via Buffalo St entrance
E158, TL153, Battalion 58 to Delwitt Ave and Mill Rd
E321, TL131 to Chesterton Ave and Grayson St

Westchester aside, I'll tell you, once you fly out of Stewart, you'll never want to travel into LGA/JFK/Newark again! It is, in my opinion, the best hidden secret. From parking your car, to sitting at your gate in 10 minutes, every time!

Wow. I don't know what is worse, old-fashioned pyromaniacs or these greedy losers?

If they are not using RLS under the authority vested in them under the DOH ruling (as Chris has provided a link indicating they do), what authority do they use them?
And since the accident happened on a Town Road (Warren St), and not wholly inside the confines of Heritage Hills, they weren't really on "private property" as you say, no?

Date: 8/29/10
Time: 01:00 hours
Location: Flatbush Ave x Flatlands Ave
Frequency: FDNY Brooklyn
Weather Conditions: clear
Description Of Incident: heavy fire in a commercial taxpayer
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Flatlands, Brooklyn, NY, 8/29/10
Address: 1969 Flatbush Ave between Flatlands Ave and Lott Pl
01:01 hours
Phone Box 3086 - Report of fire in a Chinese restaurant
Engs. 309, 255, 323
TL159, TL157
Battalion 33
10-75-3086 - 01:03 hours
E276
L156 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 41
Division 15
Rescue 2
Squad 1
7-5-3086 - 01:07 hours
Battalion 33: Box 3086, we need an extra engine, extra truck, we have good smoke condition in the adjoining stores.
E321, T147 S/C
RAC5
CIDS for 1967 Flatbush Ave:
Taxpayer 90x100. Large dumbwaiter shaft in the rear.
01:10 hours
BC33: 1 story commercial, 2 lines stretched, 1 in operation, trucks are opening up. Fire is Doubtful.
Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - street
3 - private dwelling separated by a yard
4 - similar attached
2-2-3086 - 01:11 hours
Engs. 248, 281, 310
E284 w/ Satellite 3
L174
Battalion 58 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 48 (Resource Unit Leader)
Safety, Rescue Battalions
Tactical Support 2
FieldCom 1, Command Tactical Unit
01:13 hours - Duration 14 minutes
BC33: Can you assign an additional tower ladder, 1 tower ladder is stuck in the up position.
TL153 S/C
01:17 hours
The staging area is Flatbush Ave and Hubbard Pl
01:29 hours - Duration 29 minutes
Car 4G (DAC Edward Baggott, Deputy Assistant Chief of Operations - Administration)is responding
13:39 hours
Division 15: Can we have a Department Mechanic respond for 159 truck, it's stuck in the up position.
01:43 hours - Duration 43 minutes
FieldCom: 2nd Alarm Box 3086, the address 1969 Flatbush Ave,between Lott Pl and Flatlands Ave, it's a 1 story taxpayer 90x100. At this time Division 15 reports: fire in the cockloft, heavy fire in 2 stores, gone to exterior operations, roll call was conducted, and fire remains Doubtful. Also can you have the Department Mechanic respond, 159's bucket is stuck in the area. Also have gas and electric companies here to check it out.
01:46 hours
Staging area has been changed to Flatbush Ave between Ave L and Kings Highway.
01:48 hours
ConEd reports a crew enroute
National Grid reports a 20 minute ETA
Shops Mechanic is responding
01:50 hours
FC: Special call 2 additional trucks, 1 to be a tower ladder, and I'm awaiting any special instructions.
TL170, TL172 S/C
01:51 hours
FC: We need 1 of the tower ladders to respond to the exposure 3 side which is Flatlands Ave, and rendezvous with Battalion 41.
01:56 hours - Duration 56 minutes
FC: Have the other truck report into the Command Post. I'll get you a report but I don't think much has changed.
3-3-3086 - 01:58 hours
Engs. 250, 254, 330, 249
Battalion 38
Battalion 44 (Staging Manager)
Battalion 32 acting 33 (Air Recon Chief)
Mask Service Unit
Car 36B (Department Chaplain)
Car 1E (Commissioner's Liaison)
02:04 hours
FC: Be advised we have a command channel set up. Advise the 32 when he gets in the air to contact the command post.
02:05 hours
Battalions 35, 37 S/C
02:07 hours
Department Mechanic has a 15 minute ETA
02:07 hours - Duration 1 hour 8 minutes
Battalion 39 assigned replacing Battalion 32 acting 33 as the "Air Recon Chief"
02:11 hours - Duration 1 hour 11 minutes
FC: 2nd Alarm Box 3086, 1969 Flatbush Ave, Lott Pl to Flatlands Ave, 1 story taxpayer approximately 90x100, at this time Car 4G, DAC Baggott, reports: heavy fire in the cockloft of 4 stores. Have 3 tower ladders set up in operation, 1 multi-versatile set up in operation, 2nd one being set up. 4 hand lines in operation, fire remains Doubtful, k.
02:15 hours
FDOC requests a confirmation on the address
02:16 hours
FC: It's a whole row of taxpayer, it's the taxpayer from block to block, it's the last 4 buildings on the 3-4 side. we have heavy fire and collapse zone set up, I don't know if I'll be able to get you that soon.
02:25 hours
FC: Special call 2 trucks, doesn't matter what kind they are. Have them report to the Command Post. Also make a note: one of the buildings is Chase Bank. We forced entry, we have smoke but no fire at this time.
02:26 hours
FC: Send 1 to the Command Post, and 1 to staging.
L169 S/C to the Command Post
L113 S/C to Staging
02:32 hours - Duration 1 hour 32 minutes
02:38 hours - Duration 1 hour 38 minutes
FC: The address of the original fire building is 1977 Flatbush Ave. Progress report for 3rd alarm Box 3086, it's a 1 story taxpayer on Flatbush Ave between Lott Pl and Flatlands Ave, dimensions 90x100. Car 4 George, DAC Baggott, reports: 5 tower ladders set up in operation. 3 multi-versatiles set up in operation. 4 hand lines operating from the exterior. Heavy fire in the cockloft of 4 stores, fire remains Doubtful.
02:50 hours
FC: Special call 2 additional trucks, make 1 a Tower Ladder, have them go to staging.
L132, TL120 S/C
02:55 hours
FC: Have 120 set up on Flatlands, hook up with the 41 Battalion.
03:03 hours - Duration 2 hours 3 minutes
FC: 3rd Alarm Box 3086, 1969 Flatbush Ave, Lott Pl to Flatlands Ave, it's a 1 story taxpayer, 90x100, fire in numerous stores, 4 stores, DAC Baggott reports: 6 tower ladders in operation, 4 hand lines in operation from the exterior, 3 multi-versatiles in operation, fire is darkening down, still Doubtful.
03:17 hours - Duration 2 hhours 17 minutes
FC: Notify Department of Health, we have 2 food establishments. 1 is a bagel store, and the other is a Chinese store.
03:41 hours - Duration 2 hours 41 minutes
FC: Progress Report for 3rd Alarm Box 3086, 1969 Flatbush Ave between Lott Pl and Flatlands Ave, it's a 1 story taxpayer 90x100, runs the entire block, at this time Car 4 George, DAC Baggott reports: continuing to operate with 6 tower ladders, 4 handlines from the exterior, 3 multi-versatiles. Main body of fire has been knocked down in the original fire building. Now have extension to the 2 story bank which is the far store on the 1-4 side. Have 1 handline, 1 tower ladder operating in the Chase Bank. Still Doubtful.
Relocations:
Engines: 216/241, 205/250, 282/255, 222/283, 246/309, 332/310, 283/321
Ladders: 10/132, 20/147, 114/153, 161/159, 176/170, 131/172
Battalions: 32/33, 4/38, 57/41, 1/48
[END OF REPORT]

I think this was a great use of time. When all your doing is sitting there with your hands in you pockets and new members, thats always a great time to learn.

Incident Alerts are usually posted from one side - Scannerland....the posters are typically not on scene...that is why...they rely on info recieved via a scanner, from dispatchers and units in the field...
The name of the site is misleading......HOLY COW!!!!!!! Quick - call the EMS Police! maybe DOH will shut it down!
The name is derived from the founder's email addy which is far older than the site!
Really.....get over it K.

There's a wide range of people posting IA's so I really don't know what you mean by them being "one point of view".
You really haven't gotten your point across so maybe you can try again wehn you aren't so twisted.
As for the name of this site, what does that have to do with IA's that are one sided and if they are one-sided have you ever contacted the author with additional information and requested an update? Failing that you can always contact the staff with additional info and we'll try to facilitate the update.
Either way, I'm not really sure what your point is.

Well, my suggestion was to follow the link to thesunnews.com, but I should add search that paper for "Barefoot Resort Fire". This is my eyewitness account. I first noticed the fire in the mid-afternoon. I thought from my vantage point in Myrtle Beach it was a structure in Carolina Forest, so I took a ride over the waterway and Rte 31 into the development there. Kids were walking home from school, so it was about 3:30PM. It was a very windy day. Seeing the fire was way beyond CF, I returned home.

Now in the early evening, the fire here is pushing toward the coast. Note the timeframe. At this point I was alarmed the wind would shift and MBFD wasn't staging at the city line which is right across the street from here. These shots are from my lady's camera, off of my porch.


Looking at the timeframe once again, this view is from Kings Highway, Rte 17 NMB, across from Barefoot Resort as 75 homes burned, and this is where the controversy begins. The investigation into why NMB wasn't better prepared for the fire that they knew was coming for hours, the actions of the PSO and his whereabouts, the pre-planning for a major incident in a luxury resort or lack thereof, the pre-placement of apparatus, strike forces in the Barefoot Resort, these types of issues were the center of the discussion of why a fire that indeed was headstrong, eventually jumped the intra-costal and a six lane highway was not met with a better response by City of NMB Fire Department.

There is a Horry County Brother that checks in here occassionally. He can add from his better perspective as I'm sure he fought this fire. I can only say Horry County Fire Rescue is undermanned, underpaid, and needs more help.

You know I bit the other night when somebody said something about "my perfect world" or words to that effect, and that blossomed into something uglier. Just because I got a lot of rep points here; some people build you up so they can tear you down; I understand that,(Edit: some people just can't stand you anyway) but I wish people wouldn't make derogatory comments about me personally. I paid my dues, and more so. I only post here to try and help. But I bit, and it made me unload nasty ugly. I'm sure that guy is laughing, he knows I took the bait. Ha ha, jokes on me. No worries. Ironically it wasn't a cop.

I do appreciate the calm responses and moderation, and will try harder in the future to watch my mouth and not reactively offend when offended, or be the first offender.

So the rest of us can get caught up on the incident in question, can you direct us to a good source? Not an opinion editorial, but rather some official report or something along those lines.
I found this Link, from residents in that community, and they seem to indicate that:
A quick google search for actual reports doesn't lead to anything too useful.

Having been involved in a department which was comprised of Public Safety officers, as well as volunteer members there
were pro's and con's to the operation. All career personnel were trained and certified as required under the state for both LE & Firefighter and in several cases officers also were certified as EMT or Paramedic as we also in the at that time as first responder, in conjunction with contracted EMS provider. The PSO's were compensated above their base pay for being cross trained, as well as for enhanced state certifications in both LE or Fire and in their EMT/EMT-P certifications. SOP's were vital in our operations, i.e. PPE for all incidents (patrol officers carried all their PPE in trunk). In addition what we implemented to ensure consistency and to foster better operations was a testing program for volunteer personnel and officers equal to that of the career staff (physical agility, officer testing and candidate review board comprised of career and volunteer staff). The PSO concept was put in place in this community, due to limited budget and tax base at the time and remained in place for 18 years. The biggest concerns that were raised by the PSO's was their ability to maintain proficiency in multiple disciplines. Although all ongoing annual training requirements were met in both LE & Fire. Many of the officers had a preference of which area they liked and when the city's tax base and revenue grew to a point that the city council working with the Public Safety Director and rank and file, made a decision to split the dept back to separate PD & FD. All pay scales were maintained, PSO's were happy and they got to choose which dept they remained in. Additional benefit with the split was that budget wise with both capital and expense in that they could now identify needs for their particular disciplines and not be fighting internally under one budget.
The PSO concept I believe has its place within communities with limited tax revenue, but requires a person or persons at the top who are familiar and trained in both LE & FD in order to make it work, as wll as implementing strong SOP's and ensuring they are complied with.
Just my 2 cents

With all due respect to those "grieving", how are you making the connection between that incident and this thread? And, a little bit disingenuously I might add, as you posted several posts before invoking this.
And on an entirely different note, is it really that arduous to envision a "public safety concept" with cross-trained members. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't really think firefighting or law enforcement are of such an academic or unique nature that with motivated and determined employees, both positions could not be mastered. To assume otherwise really discredits members of both professions, in my personal opinion.

Captain, we all grieve for the loss of the brothers fallen in CT, VA and elsewhere but we can not forget that life goes on. We must constantly learn from the events, tragedy and lessons of actions both past and present. We can not stop learning just because it hurts too much, or it is too soon.
I choose not to "chill on this thread" because we too must learn from this video as if it were a NIOSH report. We must take the lessons learned and apply them to actions both present and future.
The individuals in the video this thread is based on risked their safety to extinguish what, a tractor-trailer truck cab with limited life-safety except those individuals who choose to unnecessarily risk their own safety. That sir contains a lesson if you ask me. That lesson is risk a little to save a little, risk a lot to save a lot. Those pictured in this video risked a lot to save something that was going to the dump the second that fire started.
I am sorry if this offended you, but we can not let the lessons of this video escape us.

With all due respect to those "grieving", how are you making the connection between that incident and this thread? And, a little bit disingenuously I might add, as you posted several posts before invoking this.
And on an entirely different note, is it really that arduous to envision a "public safety concept" with cross-trained members. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't really think firefighting or law enforcement are of such an academic or unique nature that with motivated and determined employees, both positions could not be mastered. To assume otherwise really discredits members of both professions, in my personal opinion.

With all due respect to those "grieving", how are you making the connection between that incident and this thread? And, a little bit disingenuously I might add, as you posted several posts before invoking this.
And on an entirely different note, is it really that arduous to envision a "public safety concept" with cross-trained members. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't really think firefighting or law enforcement are of such an academic or unique nature that with motivated and determined employees, both positions could not be mastered. To assume otherwise really discredits members of both professions, in my personal opinion.

With all due respect to those "grieving", how are you making the connection between that incident and this thread? And, a little bit disingenuously I might add, as you posted several posts before invoking this.
And on an entirely different note, is it really that arduous to envision a "public safety concept" with cross-trained members. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't really think firefighting or law enforcement are of such an academic or unique nature that with motivated and determined employees, both positions could not be mastered. To assume otherwise really discredits members of both professions, in my personal opinion.

With all due respect to those "grieving", how are you making the connection between that incident and this thread? And, a little bit disingenuously I might add, as you posted several posts before invoking this.
And on an entirely different note, is it really that arduous to envision a "public safety concept" with cross-trained members. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't really think firefighting or law enforcement are of such an academic or unique nature that with motivated and determined employees, both positions could not be mastered. To assume otherwise really discredits members of both professions, in my personal opinion.

No, that's not "Obstruction."
Let's face a few facts. This law hasn't changed anything significantly. Paramedics have been allowed to draw blood for DWI arrests for quite sometime, but until now, a Physician had to be present. This law only takes away that requirement.
Very few agencies down this way would really need it, as we don't have a lack of hospitals with physicians on-site. I can speak from both sides of this, having played both roles, paramedic and law enforcement. There are lots of "what ifs", none of which are that realistic. Worried about the defendant recognizing you later? Let me tell you, they don't even recognize the arresting officers, think they'll recognize an EMS provider who they interacted with for three minutes? And worried about liability for a "bad stick"? If that's the case, you probably don't take a very aggressive approach in general, as lots of "liability" issues can arise.
The only time this type of scenario would really come into play is, as a result of some extraordinary circumstances, the defendant could not be transported to a facility where a doctor is present. In reality, you can look at it from the perspective of taking an active role in strengthening the case against a drunk driver, which is something anyone in emergency services should be on board with. And lets face it, it would rank right up there with actions that may not be mandated, but are part of the greater good. Even law enforcement takes actions that benefit EMS, although they are under no requirement to do so, it's just everybody working together towards a common goal.

I love it! Yet again, members with only a passing knowledge of the events, and in this case based completely on misinformation, hijack the thread, and, as we now see, cannot even gather the basic confirmation before posting. Thanks fireguy43 for the correct version of events. I dare to say, I recently recall a roughly 24-hour period on this site where I literally only saw a handful of new topics or comments, and I and others, believe its antics like this. Feel free to post anything you want. Want a topic on manpower, start one! But to hijack threads, and in retrospect, using unreliable data, is really getting old.