firefighter36

And after massive lobbying efforts the volunteers convinced the state to make that illegal. Now how many volunteers did that generate? 10? 20? If the same effort was put into recruiting the results could have equalled or been even greater.
Lets consider how much impact we might be talking about. In NYS there are approximatly 1,800 fire depts. Approximatly 1,700 are 100% volunteer. The remaining 100 are career or combo and range in size from 4 career to 11,000 career (FDNY). There are approximatly 18,000 career firefighters. Since FDNY does not prevent it and other depts also do not, we are talking about 6,000 fireifghters state wide. My dept. at most about 10% volunteer in other depts. So lets say 20% of career FF's might volunteer if this rule is preventing them. Thats 1,500 firefighters or 0.8 firefighters per dept. If you think that 0.8 additional firefighters per dept will solve the massive volunteer shortage you have bigger issues.
The IAFf has an obligation to ensure it's members welfare and in most cases its not the IAFF but the municipality that does not want its employees to volunteer. Based on the previous numbers. the average volunteer community has fewer than 1 career firefighter as a resident. Its not the IAFF that may be forcing the community to hire firefighters its the other 5,000 - 20,000 residence that are not stepping up to the plate.
If the standards are not the same and the ratings are not the same and the response is not the same we do not do the same job. Inclusion in the IAFF will not solve the fact that volunteer groups like FASNY continue to lobby for reduced training standards and to reduce the requirements for minimum response standards (NFPA 1720).
We would have a unified voice if the volunteer lobbying effort would stop fighting against every standards the career fire service has fought for.

The superbowl is no where near the most important event of today. This is Ronald Reagan's 100th Birthday. I wouldn't post this for any president but Reagan wasn't just any president. He was our 40th and our BEST. Reagan is regarded by both sides of the aisle as one of the best presidents of all time.
His smile, his wit, his patriotism, his conservatism and his vision for American still endure to this day. For a man with such a gentle face, he was a pillar of strength and a profile in courage.
Happy Birthday Gipper, We Miss You.

While your argument seems valid on the front, many communities simply cannot afford to supply their taxpayers with a fully career staff 24 hours a day. Would I like to see every community staffed 24/7 by a fully paid department with 4 guys on every piece of equipment that they have, absolutely. Nothing would make me happier to know that when I am sleeping or away at work, that there would be an arsenal of personnel ready to respond to my home is something terrible would happen. But you and I know that this is an impossible task, and many communities would be in uproar over the raise in taxes. Fortunatly in my community, we have the not just the manpower, but the knowledge base and experience during the day and at night to ensure this protection. While the response may be a little slower since we are not living in the firehouse, it is something that our communtity has not voiced concern about, and actually embraces the idea of the volunteer firefighter. Many communities however do not have the volunteer base, and nothing makes me more upset as a volunteer, then to listen to certain departments get toned out 2, 3 times for an alarm. When you have a consistent problem, deal with it. It is time to put your big boy pants on and actually admit to the community you can no longer provide a response that will satisfy the needs of the community. If it requires hiring career staff, so be it. End rant.
As for a professional response, Career departments have their good apples and bad eggs that give everyone a bad name, as do all volunteer departments. The topic of "professionalism" is the fire service has been beaten to death on this forum, and honestly I could care less if you call me professional, a volly scab, or any other term you want to throw at me, good or bad. But I know when I get in the truck, and respond to someone's house or business, I do so, and expect everyone else in my department to do so in a manner that will not leave the homeowner with a bad taste of the fire service in their mouth, while maintaining that every individual is gear up, with proper assignments so that if we do turn the corner and their is a working fire, no one is acting like they're about to lose their virginity . To do any less would be a complete disservice to the community you are supposed to be serving. End Soapbox.
edit: I was completely unaware this thread hit 3 pages... I thought we were back on 2, whoops.

As I mentioned above, the IAFF's position on this matter is pretty simple IMO and is pretty much what you stated. Contrary to what some volunteers may think, in general the IAFF really doesn't care if its members volunteer as firefighters in all volunteer fire departments, particularly those in the less urban areas where the tax base and call volume usually doesn't support having career firefighters.
What the IAFF does care about and has a by-law forbidding is its members serving as volunteer firefighters in fire departments in which another IAFF Local exists.
I can't say how often this happens, but I do know it's very prevalent in the metro DC area - particularly in Prince George's County MD. Many of that county's volunteers are career firefighters in other departments in that region and I'd speculate that they come to PG County to run calls not out of the desire to serve their hometown community, but rather for their own personal gratification given the amount of fires they have there.

Yes, it works at the beach, but if George doesn't answer immediately, it's because he's waiting for the Jimmy Buffet song to finish playing.
I'm ordering him a turnout coat that says MENTOR on the back. That's better than the ones that say EX CHIEF.
Keep up the good work, George

If it says "EX Wife" on the check, do you have to pay them for life?
The 1st question is do they need any credentials to become chief in the 1st place? NYS has almost no requirements.
"In MOST CASES".......Not in NYS. You need to get voted in period.

You are correct. If you do not go home at the end of the shift, the other 9 general orders are meaningless.

A fire commissioner hired by the board will not last long if he fights the board.

Tuesday am. Bill, are you losing faith in me?
NFPA 1221 (and ISO uses NFPA 1221 for this)covers this and while in previous versions they looked at call volume &/or population the current version is performance based and looks at how long it takes to process a call. I believe the volume could easily be handled by 1 dispatcher.

I believe you have to take the 40 hour "how to manage your local fire dept" course to recieve that information.

Pull up, Check for "life safety " pull a line, hand a pretyped letter to the home owner with the Mayor's phone # on it and what they have done ,then start flowing water from the safety of the outside ! We did not do this, we are here for you but with cuts that out of our control MY LIFE is most important to me and my family. 2 IN 2 OUT IS A LIFE SAVER!

What the difference is between volunteer and career firefighter training standards. All firefighters salaried or on-call will be trained, equipped and held to the same standards.

Its not the fire thats so stressful, its dealing with personnel, managment, politicians, pension issues, give backs, etc.

Good for the County Exec. As more info is available to the public, the better we can justify our operation or request additional resources.
That discusion is critical to service improvment. The problem is the info released is not enough to make for good discusion.
What is need is the following times:
Processing time (time to answer 911, transfer & or dispatch) + Turnout Time (time from dispatch till apparatus is on the road) + Response time (drive time) = total response time.
In addition the response time needs to indicate how many trained responders arrived with the 1st unit (and its onscene time) plus the total number of responders and apparatus that arrived in the remaining initial response and there onscene time.
Examples of why this is needed:
Your 1st due engine arrives with 1 FF in 4 minutes, but the remaining 3ff's take 15 minutes.
2 eng and a ladder arrive in 7 minutes with 4FF's
30 trained members arrive in 10 minutes, with long drive distances.
With just a list of total times how can anyone figure out if the problem is not enough members, not enough who can get the rigs or long distances because of rural area.
If a VFD with a single station "in town" but 20-50 road miles to cover in the outlying area maintains an intown response under 6 minutes, but outlying takes 20 minutes. This depts doing very well, but it may not look it.
They should, maybe that would force some depts to get their heads out of the sand. Since most depts do not accuratly document the times (as listed above) most do not know. Also average times are not considered the standard, fractile times are. The problem with an average time is if your average is 4 minutes that sounds very good, but that could mean on your last 20 calls; 19 took 3 minutes and 1 took 25, now if all the 3 minute calls were for automatic alarms and the 25 minute one was for a child trapped, you see why averages dont tell the real picture.
Its a great start. If you are afraid of the public knowing this info, then you are no longer serving the public. They have a right to know.

Thanks all for your concern. I am ok, a little sore but still in one piece.
Nate, not fair you saw the picture before me.
Thank you Fairview & Mobile Life for your quick and professional service.
Jim Tompkins

I heard the family that owns that company are real idiots.

I want to add in these comments about my union participation in fire commissioner elections; I personally was very involved in the process for a few years. The ONLY motivation (and I'm speaking from the heart) that drove me to work on behalf of certain individuals running for and in some cases successfully winning election to the Board of Fire Commissioners was to try and get improvements made in the delivery of service that would benefit public safety and/or firefighter safety.
In my time of political activism in the fire politik, we never asked for promises, favorable contract treatment, or anything that would benefit the members financially. We/I felt an obligation to conduct ourselves in a manner consistent with the truest ideals of the democratic system. I personally believed it to be an honor and a privilege to be participating in the process.
That's where the disheartening disillusionment came into focus. The activists basically came out and said that exact thing; a commissioner elected with the help of union firefighters must certainly be in office for only one reason; to line their pocket$. Their accusations were disgusting.
People would entrust us to take an oath to protect and serve, yet they would jump to conclude that political activism in the process could only mean that we were "in it for our own gain."
Nothing could have been further from the truth, and it resulted that the union would be loathe to ever lend it's name or support to a candidate ever again. We'd been so degraded through the process by these vindictive individuals who claimed to speak for the electorate. Truth is, WE had the best interests of the electorate in our motivations, and were dumped on so severely by these people that most of us vowed never to participate again.
In my case, that's exactly what happened.

A couple of quick points:
I don't personally know of any Board of Commissioners who recklessly squanders the district funds. They each believe that they are responsible to the taxpayer to get the best FD at the best price. The meetings are public but are sparsely attended for the most part.
In many districts, the union has only a little influence in elections. The uniion members can't vote because they don't live in the district. Take me, for example. I was hired from out of town and never lived in town in my 34 years of service, but I feel I gave the taxpayers my best.

Watch out for online higher education. Seth, I sent a PM about my experiences. Meanwhile, take a look at this episode of Frontline from PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid

More generous than they may know..............Rye's ISO rating states they need a minimum of 3,500 gpm on their frontline engines and a spare. This will affectivly eliminate the points for a spare.

You've gotta think like a politician to understand the fractured logic. You see, keeping DCSO writing tickets on the river brings in revenue. In the eyes of a drooling pork addicted politico, the FID only ever costs money. The actual service rendered to the community is not important. What will be important is which county politician will include: "Secured essential funds for the purchase of a terroristwarfighting boat for to guarantee security of freedom for American Patriots" on his/her reelection mailings, which will be sent using your money as well. We are entering a new era in government; ask not what your country can do for you, but what fees you can pay a politician to facilitate the collection of other fees from you. Presently, the cart is racing up hill miles ahead of the horse pulling it. Luckily the horse is long dead yet still being beaten with great enthusiasm and at the highest possible cost to you and me by the most expensive talent a national candidate search could secure.
Remember: "It's for the children" "The taxpayers deserve nothing less!"

Hopefully they handle it by sending the City a bill to recover the cost of their services....

Suddenly it seems like nobody wants to have their own fire chief anymore. They all want to share one.

I did a power point training with another member of my Dept. a few weeks back for one of the companies in my Dept. that lost a lot of senior members the past 5 years or so. They do not have that senior leadership to "crack the whip" so to speak and most of the company is younger and do not "get" the fire service as a whole to this point.
Some of the topics we brought up were if you associate yourself with an organization, like a FD, Paid or Volunteer, all of your actions, right or wrong, reflect back to the organization. From responding to the firehouse with your blue light and driving like an idiot, to wearing FD t-shirts, jackets in public and having your actions embarrass yourself and the FD. ( I once heard it said that firefighters should have a good set of party/drinking clothes...nothing that says FD anywhere on it!)
We discussed a new topic that we never had to worry about 10 years ago, the ramifications of posting on social networks like face book, and how far is to far. Fair or not all the negative stuff you do comes back to the Department, including posting certain things and being part of certain "groups". I would say most Departments do not have a policy in regards to face book or others of this sort, and it is your right to say what you want, but a line must be drawn at some point when your face book page has a large logo of your Department patch, but you are also posting negative statements about the Dept. or fire service in general. And this does not have to be about your own Dept., it can be comments about your neighboring dept.s. Even harmless jokes or an "inside joke" to a friend from another Dept.may be taken the wrong way by others of that same Dept. Stuff like this travels fast, and it's not just the young guys who are taking part in this social network. I have experienced this first hand, and stress to our new members to be very careful what you post.
News people are not stupid, if they get word of something negative about your Dept. they may search out a Dept. roster, most websites list all active members, and search individual members who may have a face book page. If you post the "dirty laundry" for all to see, you have just helped towards more negative publicity towards your dept. Not to mention if what you say is not the truth or "stretch the truth a bit", the news people will run with this and write about it.
It's very hard to enforce the "what goes on in the firehouse, stays in the firehouse" these days. These things could come back to haunt you later in your career as well. firefighters have good memories, a controversy you were part of when you were a rookie and could care less can come back and sabotage you as you try and rise through the ranks one day, both paid and Volunteer. To the young guys out there your proud to show and tell the world who you are and what organization you are part of, but think twice before you hit the "send", "join" or "accept" buttons!

We are the Fire Department. We are above the law, we never have to follow the law........
Maybe if we did there would be fewer losses. Currently at least 3 departments in Westchester have at least 5 or more outstanding written violations from PESH (NYS OSHA) for failing to meet the law. Maybe the Tarrytown incident (which has yet to be given violations) will convince the chiefs and municipal administrators that yes the Fire Department must follow the law.