firefighter36

Thanks again for the reply Charlie. But I honestly don't see this as an argument, rather just a discussion. BNechis's response above is a good one, that gets to the root of the topic.
I've added what I could in suggesting bringing in a consultant, because that fresh set of eyes on operations many times is very helpful for people like the village board members you mentioned.
Having run solo on engines, trucks and a rescue earlier in my career, I know what that feels like to a firefighter (career or volunteer). It's overwhelming, stressful, dangerous. If there is a way to address not having that happen in Rye Brook, Port Chester, and the other places the Captain mentioned, it's worth exploring the options. A consultant could give the elected officials some options to consider maybe they hadn't heard before or thought of themselves, and maybe act upon.
I mean this sincerely when I say no firefighter, career or volunteer should have to run solo on a rig anymore in 2011, and there are ways to figure out how to solve that issue.

No it is not.
The issue is do you have enough responders to cover calls and meet the minimum standards. PCFD, RFD, and HFD's staffing has always been some career ff's (to drive) and a majority of the response being volunteers. RBFD is in a similar situation, because its relying on PCFD to respond with enough personnel. If enough volunteers are showing up, then no issue, if not, you are putting the career member, the public and the few volunteers who are onscene at extreme risk.
How few Firefighters can you get away with? What is the minimum number that should be on every response?

The primary reason I voiced an opinion in this thread is because the conditions that the career firefighters face, alone or with one other in both departments, can be extremely dangerous to their health and safety. It never ceases to amaze me that so many people nowadays will use the terms "consolidation and regionalization" as politically correct terminology. Yet, try and talk specifics, offer ideas, and the conversation dies.
This has never been a thread about career vs. volunteer in my eyes. It's a thread to advocate for safer working conditions for my Brother firefighters, and that is an issue I will never be silent about.
I understand what you want, and I hope everyone who reads this thread understands what career firefighters who raised an opinion here want; safer conditions for our Brother firefighters. It is that simple.

Look at any operation and you can find "problems" or areas of improvement period. I always worry about home base first..and then my profession 2nd as we all represent each other. That's just a fact of life. If you or anyone else doesn't notice any...your not looking or don't know what to look for. Your training should be based off those issues but big and small to make operations more efficient, safer and professional.
As far as the if you don't have anything but negative things to say....and I saw no insults....enough already. If you want nothing but positives and want to keep eating cake go to the kids section of a book store. Things happens, things occur and things are occurring that are not efficient, nice, dangerous, ridiculous etc. You can not read them if if makes you upset. I say discuss them and tackle them head on..until we get over this stigma about insulting, badmouthing, monday morning quarterbacking..the fire service is going to have a lot of problems. And not for nothing you did invite anyone with your first sentence to point things out as they see them. I don't operate in Portchester so its not my battle but I could point out several that would blanket just about every department in this county....but as I said...I fight that battle on my own front.
Chuck...nice post but no one was attacking anyone nor saying you aren't or never were providing good service to your area. All departments have their issues. Its not personal...remember that. If it is..then the person posting should be or be able to say to anyone's face what they post. period.

Read, digest, comprehend and then respond. If you do these things you'll realize that I have a lot more than negativity to bring to this topic. It's called constructive commentary. As for your writing; I'm not trying to insult you. I'm simply pointing out that if you want your point to be taken seriously, you should be able to string a properly constructed sentence together. No one is looking for perfection, but I have to read your post about 4 times to make sense of it. Part of a respectful argument is to address everyone here like well read adults.
As for PCFD/RBFD operation; why should be not discuss that here? Isn't that the point of this forum? What should be do, buff out to apparatus and incident photos all day? Or perhaps we should only give big pats on the back for a job well done after every incident. No, that's not what this is for. We have this forum and it allows us to do many things. We get to share photos, report incidents and most importantly, discuss operations in the hopes of improving them. If all of those things can't be done, than why are Seth and the rest of the staff killing themselves and spending money keeping this site open?
As for the RBFD issue, lets cut to the chase. Everything is not fine. Those guys are in a position of having to do too much with not enough. Sorry, but waiting for PCFD to show up is also not appropriate as a first due means of providing emergency service. How about night time? Do you REALLY think that the lone chauffeur of engine 59 thinks showing up in front of a building fire at 2 A.M. is fine? I DOUBT it. What do you think residents see? They see a big red truck and a guy killing himself to hook up to a hydrant or whatever, but then they have to wait a few LONG minutes waiting for people to arrive to actually fight the fire. That's B.S. for that fireman to be in that position and B.S. for the residents.
There are many ways to skin this cat, but the system as it exists now is in fact NOT working. It is not sufficient and it puts a lot of firemen and civilians in danger, let along property. This is not about the dedication of those who work or volunteer in this two department system. This is about not being provided with the tools or manpower to do the job. Why are you defending this system? Is it because, "this is the way we've been doing it for 175 years", as someone said? Well, I guess we should dust off the hold hand drawn pumpers because they worked fine a century ago, right? Why examine a system to look to improve it?
If this doesn't get through....nothing will. I'm going to put the soap box away for now....

Worried? No, not at all. However, if you'd like to make a credible argument, spelling and grammar are great building blocks.
Disrespectful would be saying, "Rye Brook FD and PD should be dissolved and all their members should be fired". I don't believe I saw anyone approaching that level of crass suggestion. The root of what is being discussed here is fire department operations of the RBFD. What the politicians have created here is the illusion of fire protection. Residents call 911 and big red trucks show up and no one knows that there are only two firemen who are going to have to put themselves through the ringer to accomplish a fraction of what needs to be done at a fire. First and foremost, this is detrimental to the safety of the members while working, as well as to any other emergency personal who may be called to work at the same scene. I mean, seriously, how much burden can you lay on the shoulders of two guys?! It's crazy! No, actually it's criminal.
Public safety isn't hard to justify. We know it and we all know that no one, not one single department, has the staffing that we should always have. The issue here is not what all of US think, but what can be accomplished in reality. All of us, along with the people we serve, deserve top quality emergency services provided by properly structured agencies. That means commanders (chiefs and line officers), support staff and last, but of greatest importance, the number of firefighters to get the job done. The sad reality is that RBFD probably won't suddenly hire a chief, enough officers and firemen to properly staff (at least) 1 engine and 1 truck, 24 hours a day. Could they afford it? Probably. Is that a wealthy community who's residents can take a tax hike? Yup! But, as the saying goes, "the rich don't get rich by giving their money away". They're wrong and they think that they'll never need the fire department, but things get awful ugly when you start looking at numbers.
The bottom line is this, that firehouse is very necessary, so lets talk about how to get those guys the proper tools (i.e. manpower) to do the job they're forced to do without proper manning. I believe, IMHO, that the only way for this to occur is (get ready, here's the buzzword again) CONSOLIDATION!!

I've never seen so much written in, what, 4 sentences? I agree with you that the elimination of the RBFD , allowing for PCFD to cover is not a good idea. However, bulking up the staffing of the dept. might not be the answer either. It's a community that is remotely located, as far as fire coverage goes, but it's in a tough area to justify the costs associated with all that's necessary to run a fire department properly. All this comes full circle to the consolidation issue. There are so many possibilities when we get into that sandbox. Perhaps RBFD would come to house a fully staffed engine and wait for one of the ladders from what is currently a PCFD firehouse, ect (because it wouldn't be RBFD or PCFD in that case)
As for your last comment, sir, I don't understand. We should not address an issue or offer ideas because someone from that agency is reading this thread? That's silly. I hope that someone from the RBFD is here to offer the inside scoop and some additional perspective. Not all opinions are going to be liked or popular, but we can't make nice all the time. As long as it's constructive and respectful, we can lay it out there honestly and continue the discussion.

Sorry guys...I promise it will look better once I get the reflective stripes and chevrons on it.
I also have a deal pending with Seth to logo it up as an official EMTBravo Incident Alert fly car.

HI EVERYONE! Just an update for all of you who responded to my post about if I could pursue EMT and paramedic since I was facing an issue with my dream of becoming an airline pilot. (See thread in EMS Forum: An unfortunate situation) I took the final part of my medical test today and my examiner passed me!!! Thanks for all of your help in my other thread in helping me look at options. I can now continue to pursue my lifelong dream. I look forward to seeing you all at the gate!

In my opinion your Mom is right. Get not only your Bachelors but an advanced degree now before family and work obligations get in the way. Most importantly do not expect that your experiences in firefighting and / or emergency services will be very similar to your predecessors. The one thing you can be sure of is that during your working life, the fire service, and in fact the world, will undergo enormous, and oftentimes, rapid change. A well rounded undergraduate and graduate degree will make you much more capable of anticipating and positioning yourself for the changes you will see. Don't limit yourself to a fire science degree either- you will be studying that stuff for promotion anyway- get the most well rounded education that you are able to- researching and writing, public speaking,government, history, psychology, technology, etc. are just basic skills which are necessary to function as an effective, progressive, fair leader in almost any field of endeavour. Consider a bachelor's in management, organizational leadership or some such with a minor in fire science or emergency management. After that you will have a better idea as to what to study for your Master's Degree.
Don't believe everyhting any of us in the Fire Service tell you (it's very hard to be objective about yourself)- seek out contrasting opinions, as you have done here. Spend time (such as in college) with people who have no connection to the fire service or emergency services. Learn from them too.
Realize that as a Firefighter you will be working with many dedicated, hard working people, but you will also be spending your life working alongside many who just want a decent civil service job and who do not have the same pride and work ethic that you do. This can prove to be a big shock and an enormous sense of dissapointment to a "gung-ho" young guy such as yourself. If you think you will be able to motivated these types and change their attitude, I would suggest that you first find a brick wall and bang your head against it as hard as you can a few times and make sure you enjoy that.

For the young members of this fourm considering becoming career firefighters it is worth considering military service and especially firefighting. An air force active duty firefighter would have the qualifications for these jobs. Veterans points are a part of civil service and military service will always look good on a resume. It can also help pay for college. There are plenty of former military firefighters in the career fire service. I'm sure there are some on this board that can provide further information.

I make good $$$$...but it isn't enough..LOL ...hence the need for overtime.
I couldnt imagine surviving on my old EMS salary!

2-Years, Miss ya' Bud!

So which is it the IAFF or the Department that wants it? They are not one and the same and often they are on opposite side of many issues. NYS has 100 depts that are career or combo and only about 6 provide ALS. I dont think you have studied this enough.
Who are you to determine what a community should think is valuable and is willing to pay for?
All of Florida "forces" everyone to be FL. firefighters to get hired or promoted, does that make for a down grade in firefighters?
So you've inteview all these ff's and determined this? I've been a paramedic and an instructor for over 25 years (firefighter & officer for similar), but my agency is BLS. I became a medic because I wanted to. My medic training makes me a better fire officer and my fire training makes me a better medic.
I know many depts that its highly competative to even get into medic programs.
I also know a number of non fire based medics, that are burned out, or want to be an RN, Cop, FF and the medic will be dropped when they get there. The medic is just to pay the bills for now (some are good and some are not....and many are forced by Mommy & Daddy because they need a job).
Then how can you make claims about the entire fire service? Since the majority of EMS in the US is fire based and has been that way for 40 or more years when is this padding going to have any effect?
Yes you are clearly a newbie and reading a bunch of articles maybe only has given you a small view of whats really out there.
So its better to provide it for profit like the big commercial services?
BTW, I'm not pissed off, Its common to see inexperienced people try to prove a point here.

I can only do so much !!!!! The 1 3/4" was all I could advance by myself. K.O. had to make sure Merc-O-Matic and Big Sal were OK.

Very well said. It made me think
You are correct in stating no one is risking their life to save some furniture and a flat panel TV and Bill may not expect the FD to save his home, but their are some other factors at work, which your post made me consider.
As a probie, I responded to a house fire at about 5am on a Sunday, it had been called in by a dog walker. I was on the 2nd due engine and upon our arrival we had a split level ranch with fire thru the roof and out many windows on the mid floor (kitchen,diniing/living room). Conditions were boarderline for an interior attack. The truck company forced the front door and then the garage. 2 cars were inside. That made everone think that the family might still be in there bedrooms. My LT. had us stretch a 2 1/2 to the front door and we made a push to the top of the stairs. We could not get down the hall to the bedrooms as conditions were bad and I kept feeling something hitting me (I found out later that it was roof slate, falling thru the attic. We were then ordered out and a ladder pipe knocked it down before we went back in. Once outside every window & the roof now had fire venting. I was not very hopeful for the family, when we pushed back down the hallway. It turned out that they were away.
What did we save? A bedroom and the family room in the basement. I remember gatthering some critical family items and putting them under a tarp. The letter from the family said we saved the 2 things they could not replace; The family photo albums and their family history files.
Fast forward to this summer, we had a house fire in the middle of the afternoon. Family was on the lawn as we arrived. Heavy fire on multiple floors. Our firefighters made an agressive search and attack which saved much of the home. I was at the CP when a FF came out with the families dog, unconsious and looking like a giant mop. EMS was able to revive the dog and the family made it pretty clear that what we did was the most important thing to them. They were insured and can rebuild, but you cant insure those things.
While insurance may help you rebuild, it will not make you whole.

Firefighters, career or volunteer, are not a commodity that you "buy." Would you phrase your wording similarly if you were talking about firefighters who happened to be black? Would you still consider saying "buy a dozen?"
I find your comment to be demeaning and degrading. No matter what our color; firefighters are not bought. We are human beings that perform in one of the few noble professions left in this country, along with police officers and other public servants.
Contrary to your opinion, most people when asked still consider firefighters and cops to be well worth the cost of their salaries. The majority of our citizens know there are only a certain few professionals, who when called upon are ready to risk everything to help, to undertake the function of protecting life and property that we swore an oath to perform.
You want to buy something, go to the grocery store.

I've seen home owners insurance discussed as well as not wanting anyone to risk their lives to save what you can rebuilt. That's a little short sighted, don't you think? What about when you wake up in the middle of the night and your exit is blocked by fire and smoke? No one is risking their life to save some furniture and a flat panel TV. We're here to save lives and to do that, you need to get in there and search and extinguish the fire. You might live in a single story ranch, but what about the guy who lives in the attic apartment who's windows are 30' off the ground? How about the person who is overcome by CO in their sleep and could still be rescued and resuscitated?
We're a tool box. Hopefully we're a bottomless one, and can mitigate whatever issue it is tasked with. If managed correctly (career or volunteer) we can be the best insurance policy money can buy. However, to do that we must respond quickly and with adequate staffing.

The way our economy is going, coupled with the fragile state of the world economy and geopolitical pressures, wars, famine, terrorism, natural disasters, wildfires.....tied in with the Mayan calendar and the supposed significance of the year 2012; a gig in Antarctica might be a great place to ride out the coming year.....

Yes most have 1 full timer (who also work for the district) your list was 4 or 5 part timers and later you mentioned how little they each did. Also they often get paid much less than a firefighter and get a 401k not a pension,
Every career FD I know has to do this, at least till they get promoted (one reason to study).
Vary's from dept to dept. but, many of the items listed are done by career members. I know our guys have completely renovated kitchens, tiled, built BBQ's, painted, electrical work etc. And the few items listed can be contracted for (cheaper than hiring).
Brilliant
I pay about 45% less for home insurance, I cant compare fire vs. liability to yours, but I suspect the liability & theft should be abouth the same, and I do know that the difference in ISO ratings (2 vs 9) happens to be approximatly 56%.
Everyone in NYS who's fire insurance company is not in NYS also pays the 2%
Good question, its very hard to answer if that would do it or not. However, in the country the best rated dept. without hydrants and 100% volunteer (but with very solid manning)is an ISO 4 which would be a 40% savings.
Its clear that a department with a 9 (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being no fire dept.) can do better. Will career personnel solve the problem? I don't know, because there are many other factors, but it is clear that change is needed.
60 Control's call volume is over 95,000 and SFD's is a little over 2% of 60's. If SFD's volume is too high/complex then how can they manage New Rochelle's which is 4.5 times more or Eastchester's which is about 2 times more. I guess the other depts don't have protocols, many of which were established and adjusted over the years.
I am not surprised by this attitude, 20 years ago the SFD Board stated that they did not want free paramedic service (paid for by IBM & Pepsi) and they stated that the reason was: "the residence of Somers don't want paramedics when they are having a heart attack, they want people they know to hold their hands as they are transported". Most of us at that hearing never expected that.

Since LAPD has a fighter Jet, its possable for NYPD to have one also.
Joe Friday: Ah, sure, but just like every other foaming, rabid psycho in this city with a foolproof plan, you've forgotten you're facing the single finest fighting force ever assembled.

He will use the same smoke and mirrors used on crime stats to confuse the pilots into landing their aircraft. This is the same job that refuses to give Tazers to front line patrol officers, resisted 9mm handguns, dragged its feet with extendable batons, and took flash bang grenades away from ESU. I fully expect his plan to be the 600 cops asigned to the WTC command to stand on each others shoulders until they reach the height of the aircraft were upon the top officer will politely ask the pilot of said plane to land at the earliest convenience, or else said officer will loose 10 vacation days.

Go get a 4 year college degree - not just a paramedic certification of AAS with a paramedic certification. I went to 4 years of college and have a degree completely unrelated to EMT/emergency services/paramedic, etc. Get work experience OUTSIDE of EMS. As much as I love being a paramedic (part time/per diem) in a bunch of places, I thank God every day that I have a bunch of other work options other than EMS. This definitely helps with burnout and fills my pockets quite nicely with $$ at my other non-EMS job. My husband is currently seeking a 4 year degree after more than 20 years in EMS, and he would say whole heartedly, Go to College first and get a degree I would add - focus on a solid education, get a solid degree in science, management or something like that, etc and don't let EMS create short-sightedness. No one care if you have a degree in EMS management or emergency services. So why limit yourself with such a specific degree? Get something you can go any where with - med school, nursing, education, etc! Good luck!

Happy Birthday Bro........

To everyone going up there, be safe and good luck. Do your departments providing their members with vaccinations? cholera, hep A, and tetanus are the big three off the top of my head. Sewage and septic systems are among the first things to fail and last to be restored in flooding and thanks to our modern sanitation systems we have little exposure and even less vaccination for cholera and hep A.