16fire5

I think Bnechis makes a good point when he asks how fast you can get the additional water on scene. If your mutual aid tankers are not on the initial dispatch the reflex time to get them on the road and the shuttle set up may be too long. I have been on the scene when the initial attack was great but it ran out of water and waiting for mutual aid doomed the building.

There are plenty of fire protection districts in NYS that contract for fire protection i.e. anytown(town) has a contract with anytown fire company (not for profit independent fire company) to provide fire protection and/ems coverage to said fire protection district(s). If the fire company is failing to respond on any type of regular basis I'm sure a case could be made for breach of contract.

And most of those places don't have 6 & 7 Story NFP "H" Type MD's with no standpipes like Yonkers. I love when i hear someone say Yonkers has great staffing. 2 men on the back step of the engines stretching to the top floor of these buildings doesn't cut it. And truck companies with that same staffing can't adequetly perform the proper inside and outside functions. As for the rig I think the chasis is a good choice because you get a short wheelbase on a rig that carries a lot of equipemnt. Key is keeping the first due companies from blocking these rigs out. Good luck with the rig and more importantly hopefully the powers that be come to their senses an leave your staffing alone.

Carefull who you make fun of. Look at the new rigs driving around the city. I count 4 legnts of 3 different kinds of suction hose. They look like rural vollie rigs. Have to ask some engine guys why they have the 2 lengths of see through suction hose in addition to the 1 length of hard suction and the 1 lenght of semi rigid used for hydrant hook up.

The jobs internal report is much better than the NIOSH report. More in our language and done by experienced chiefs of the safety command. NIOSH reports are good don't get me wrong but if you read both you'll have a lot better idea of what happened from the FDNY report. That being said spend more time training on recognizing situations that you should leave instead of bailing out. As a volunteer dept. you have few training nights so I would make the most of them. Bailing out is good training but not bailing out is better. Going to the floor above without a line is risky as we learned on "back sunday". Maybe you should have in your SOP not to do that except for a KNOWN life hazard not for standard primary search. Keep the risk in line with the benifit.

I think a lot of that definition of best comes from what makes a good ISO tanker. I think most tankers that perform well in a shuttle are 2000 gpm and under. A lot of departments have made the decision that bringing a lot of water to the fire and putting it our before a shuttle is the only realistic way to save a structure. Few would argue much property is saved once the incident transitions to a shuttle operations. I wouldn't discount ISO totally becuase a better rating saves people money but the reality of low manpower rural departmens is that a initial attack backed by 4000 gallons is there best chance. The tanker safety issue is a whole different story and I tend agree with FDSOA and NFPA 1901. Anyone that gets LODD notifications and reads the NIOSH reports knows that tanker rollovers are still killing to many firefighters.

It's never been easy to be a Met fan, or a Jet Fan for that matter. But you can only keep your head up and pray that Omar cleans house in the Bull Pen. If they had half the blown saves they would have clinched 2 weeks ago.

The number is derived from the old bell system. 8=Squad 5=Engine 7=Truck The reserve engines are 500 series and trucks 700 series. So when you hear 5-7 signal on the dept. radio you know that response is for an engine and truck. If you need more I'm sure JBE could indulge.

Pride and agressiveness don't equal professionalism and I think that's my biggest issue with Kentland. As a fire officer my number one job is making sure myself and my crew goes home. Driving like lunitics to turn yourself from 3rd due to 1st and stretching your own line instead of filling out the stretch are not professional. Sure I want to go to fires and do my job as much as the next guy but I enjoy working where firefighters are professionals above buffs and if they are not the culture of the job and the senior men straighten things out. It's not about how your helmet looks or some flashly phrase on your rig.

Their apparatus was lime and then they went white? Are they going to red?

Yeah all kidding aside it's good to hear the officer is doing well and able to joke about it.

Maybe he was trying to live up to his last name.

How does the age in your profile show 21-24 and you probably have far more experience? These days I'm just a CFR but I can read and understand the protocol and know when the Helicopter is warranted. I have called for the helicopter and believe that this enhances patient care and helps get the patient to definitive care in the appropriate facility as quick as possible. Isn't that the goal? I don't see how waiting for a paid bus to arrive and have a committe decide benifits the patient. I know cases where the NYSP has called for the helicopter and I'm not sure if the on scene trooper was an EMT but these cases were warranted. I understand the point your getting at and there is some merrit to the fact that helicopters are probably over used but remember 20 years ago they were almost non existant in this area and now we've come full circle. Education is the key. Do a class at your local FD. But being proactive and calling for help early is something good that has evolved in the emergency services. It wasn't that long ago that many chiefs waited far too long to call for Mutual Aid, and EMTs only requested ALS (if it was available then) for only the most critical patients.

I find it to be a tremendous tool at working fires. 1. Fireproof multiple dwellings with a banked down hallway it is very useful in finding the fire apartment. 2. Finding extension on the floor above is much easier with the TIC especially if you have the new generation that changes color under high heat gradients. 3. Investigating smoke conditions-The use of the cross hairs to measure temperature allow you to find motors, ballasts hotter than the ones around them usually things over 110 degrees arise my suspicion from experience. 4. Size up from outside the building especially in colder weather will show a window/apartment hotter than the rest. More and more with thermal pane windows they are intact on arrival and determining the fire apartment is not always straight forward. I will admit I have to remind myself to do this when getting off the rig as the temptation is to run in the front door. But A. it's the professional thing and proper size up way to go and B. It allows your inside team to grab their tools so you enter as a team. I find it less useful during overhaul because everything seems to show heat and I would say I probably do overhaul the old fashion way (opening up until you reach a clean bay and then one more, any surface you can't put the back of a ungloved hand on should be opened, ect.) A very important thing to stress when training with the tools is not to become TIC dependent it is a computer operating on batteries that you are taking into a fire-be ready for failure at any moment. So keep your search oriented stay down low as if you didn't have a camera and don't get drawn like a deer in the headlights to the fire. I once passed the bathroom that had the burning mattress in the tub because the camera was leading me to the fire in the living room. Lastly I have done the TIC class at FDIC and been trained by Safe IR in FLSTP and highly recommend their training. There instructors have a tremendous amount of experience with the camera and their class has a good balance of classroom and live fire training.

Concept has been in use for a while in Onondaga County, NY. Here's some info on it. http://www.mcfd.org/About/pages.php?page=e91

Actually the problem with buildings like these is you do not feel the heat until it is too late do to the high ceilings. The one thing that we do have nowadays is the TIC and it gives us to see those piping hot I beams sagging. Remember unprotected steel bar joists are even more dangerous because they are effected by the heat even faster and can potentially fail in 5-10 minutes. That's just about the time an overly agressive company might be making a push. Sounds like the New Canaan brothers used perfect tactics under the conditions big lines and big water to cool things down and then entered to finish things off.

Well you we not listening then because when the PD got the shaft the FD was pretty much forced to accept the same deal FDNY probies salary was equally reduced and give backs were required to make equal concessions to the PD deal. We lost 15 hours of vacation (not the adjusted tour as some think). Additionally new FDNY lieutenants were stretched to 4 years to top pay and start at a pay slightly higher than Firefighters. In essence when the PD recieved the previously bad arbritration award it effected all unions. As for parity it remains to be seen if it was broken. The value of the concessions made by the PBA are pretty extreme and something not easy for the FD to match unless you want to go to Medicals and Education Day on your day off and get tours rescheduled like they conceeded to. The 12% was a little mysterious but in many opinions was meant as a precedent for the PBA who had a beef with the to pay ESU. I do believe ESU members are detective specailists and earn 14% more the same amount originally proposed by Hanley to Cassidy but was lowered to 12% because Fire Marshal's a promotion already only make 12% more. Haz-Mat Co. 1 gets the 12% as it was originally proposed by the city for them but through negotations extended to others.

I have found that the 12 tip blade works best on the 950 while the 24 is good for the 1200. Tested two 950s head to head with the different blades the 12 tip is best. There's new cut everything blades out now but I haven't had a chance to test them.

I think what he's getting at is get the fork in between the door and the jam and spread it open. Then you can hit the panic bar with what ever including your hand. Worked for me once and the door was heavily warped from forcing. Also remember when you run into these types of doors there are a couple ways they will be locked when the space is not occupied. Top and bottom are common and don't discount a chain running through the panic hardware. If two doors lock to each other and the space is open forcing the door near the panic hardware will probably not do the trick as you will have to force the locks at the top of the door.

NYS does not certify FAST teams. I think its great to have high standards for FAST but I think the volunteer sector has gone overboard. A FAST is no good unless it is on scene so if you have a mix of youth and experience on your team and it responds quick that is good. All municipal career departments that I know of use probies in there first days in the field as part of their company that provides the FAST function.

We try to give the job to a qualified officer Capt. or above. At this time we are lucky to have 4 nationally certified FI 1's including all three chiefs. I think its a must to have instructor training becuase it enhances your delivery. And having more than one is really helpful to keep it fresh and keep the members interested. Also we bring in outside experts to do specialized topics Haz-Mat, Tech Rescue, ect.

RIP Brother.

I think a lot depends on the building that is being operated in and your size up. I know a lot of you don't know this info going in but it's something to think about. The basics have already been said Stokes (easy to carry eveything up to the scene) Both search rope and Life Saving Ropes Can (This is an FDNY procedure can be used on burns) Grease Board (If you team is big enough you can have two guys do a 360 and then can do a quick drawing on the board and try to preplan ops) Saws (based on the building) A cordless rebar cutter if you have one may be the fastest way to remove window bars And along with this you should size up the scene and find an available hoseline if needed to cover a rescue operation. Size up the ground ladders and aerial devices present to know what you can do if someone appears at a window. I also like to know where there is a Hurst Tools and Air Bags that can be accessed if a heavy entrapment calls for them. I could go on forever but I'm sure some other posters will take over where I left off.

Unfortunatly the NFPA standards are made by way too many people who don't fight fires. Many of their standards may be well intentioned but not well thought out. In my opinion many of there well intentioned standards create their own problems. The committes are made up of many manufacturers and equipment distributers. Realize our gear is heavier and our rigs are too big because of the NFPA and the same amount of firefighters die each year going to less fires. NFPA standards benifit the manufactures more than the firefighter.

That might be a bit arrogant. The point is if your that good you should be available for Maydays. Many departments only call a FAST for mutual aid so when they run out of resources they put the fast to work this is a failure of command and illegal. You should have resources on scene available to put to work besides the FAST before the fire is under control. I would not rotate FASTs just because members get bored because the FAST has seen the the scene evolve and knows where members are operating and has done a size up. If the FAST you call can't deal with this they are not professionals find one that is. One poster thought that for each member who enters the IDLH requires a standby. This is not true. By exact letter of the law technically only 2 members are required to standby outside. Even OSHA admitts in opinions that this is probably not adequete in real life situations. The NFPA requires 4 so I would use this as a minimum because you could see this applied by OSHA under the general duty clause and because it's a good idea.