helicopper

How many atrocities in our history have been carried out in the name of religion?
Not being religious or playing violent video games isn't what caused this massacre.
I'm reasonably confident that warning signs may have been missed but they weren't the "goth lifestyle" or choice of video games.
With regard to liberal "anything goes" lifestyles as compared with some others, I'll still pick ours hands down any day of the week. When's the last time someone was stoned to death for adultery in the US?

Or because we are in denial that EMS is a big, if not bigger part of our scope of operations.

Maybe because no one is worryied about getting hit by a box of gloves
I still see firefighters without seatbelts, SCBA's in open brackets, helmets unsecured, tools and other equipment on the floor, etc.

Many interesting and valid points here. I'd agree we'll never know the root cause of this or similar tragedies, but like so many other problems we must seek to identify commonalities and determine if there are factors that can lead to identification or prevention. Here's few things that have come to stick with me over the last two days:
1. How much does the media contribute to these heinous acts. I'm not blaming them, but it seems that in many (Most?) cases the perpetrators are most often described as withdrawn, quiet, "nobody's", or otherwise lacking a significant number of peer friends? Very often these people are also described as bright; genius; brilliant; etc. So we have smart kids going unknown or unrecognized. Add in some level of depression, and yes the "goth" style seems to typify the dark, quiet depressed nature of many kids. Do these kids starve the spotlight? Does the media making these tragic events so front and center provide the venue for them to be noticed?
2. While I'm an advocate for the 2nd Amendment and responsible firearms owner, I can't think of a scenario where my having to register my firearms would adversely affect me. I say this because I think that forcing some gun owners to be more responsible about how their firearms are kept would reduce unwanted use and stolen guns. Eliminating gun show loopholes to ensure all transfers were recorded and checked through NCIC (or whatever DB they use) again can't really be a huge inconvenience to legal gun owners are compared to the all out bans that are becoming more palatable every day as these tragedies mount. I fear not the U.S. government taking my legally owned firearms, I'm confident that if used against another human it'll be completely justified, but far more likely they'll never have a human in their sights. Those who fear the government will use LEO's to grab their guns fail to realize that cops, military personnel and federal agents are American citizens too, come from all walks of life in various sizes, shapes and colors and even political affiliations.
3. I too played violent video games, loved war movies and played army as a kid, none of which has made me a violent human being. That being said, there may be some merit to the point that the amount of violence seen by kids today contributes to their desensitization? We must remember that not all have the same capacity to handle what they're exposed to, hence Road Rage and seemingly these mass killings of innocent victims. Sadly, we can somewhat understand mass murder for a cause, but these total acts of senseless violence seem to prove a growing disregard for human life. Should kids be playing games that reward them for injuring and killing innocent people?
4. Lastly, maybe it's time to start meeting in the middle on some things. Our country gets weaker by the day as we deepen the great divide. Today it may be gun control, next week we'll be back to fiscal responsibility, national healthcare, religion, same sex marriage, you name it, we are so far from agreement on so many things we are a nation divided. Instead of seeing any middle ground every issue have become a larger fight. We rarely see any merit or listen long enough to hear the other point of view. It seems we all can agree that senseless tragedies need to stop, maybe we could stop the name calling long enough to see that even a few little steps toward the middle might help stem just one tragedy from ever happening. Problem is we can't see something that never happens thus we can't prove it'll work.
Wow, this soapbox is pretty high, guess I'll climb down.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

I have addressed this with drivers and officers. You would be amazed at some of the justifications I hear as to why they went "Code 3". I won't go into specifics.
It is hard to remove driving privileges or take disciplinary action when there is no set policy.
I tried to lead by example. It is well known in my department that I very rarely use lights/siren on my Chief vehicle. Yes I have been driving down the road with no lights or siren on and in my rear view mirror I see the engine in the distance lights a blazing.

Locked doors may slow someone down or limit their access to large numbers of people. Instead of having everyone running around in the halls creating a (excuse the term) shooting gallery environment, the locked doors and limited numbers in each room reduce the exposure of innocent people and make it easier for the police to secure the environment too. I wouldn't call that cowering in the corner. Unarmed, untrained civilians should seek shelter during something like this. What else would you have them do?
In this case, the suspect seems to have been targeting a very specific person and unfortunately the kids that were with her.
Overall, I think lockdowns work but this guy was intent on completing his mission so the locked door didn't stop him. Unfortunately.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

Locked doors may slow someone down or limit their access to large numbers of people. Instead of having everyone running around in the halls creating a (excuse the term) shooting gallery environment, the locked doors and limited numbers in each room reduce the exposure of innocent people and make it easier for the police to secure the environment too. I wouldn't call that cowering in the corner. Unarmed, untrained civilians should seek shelter during something like this. What else would you have them do?
In this case, the suspect seems to have been targeting a very specific person and unfortunately the kids that were with her.
Overall, I think lockdowns work but this guy was intent on completing his mission so the locked door didn't stop him. Unfortunately.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

No need for that kind of reaction. We can agree to disagree and still have a discussion about it.
I'm just not prepared to blame video games or poor taste in clothes on what happened yesterday.

How many atrocities in our history have been carried out in the name of religion?
Not being religious or playing violent video games isn't what caused this massacre.
I'm reasonably confident that warning signs may have been missed but they weren't the "goth lifestyle" or choice of video games.
With regard to liberal "anything goes" lifestyles as compared with some others, I'll still pick ours hands down any day of the week. When's the last time someone was stoned to death for adultery in the US?

How many atrocities in our history have been carried out in the name of religion?
Not being religious or playing violent video games isn't what caused this massacre.
I'm reasonably confident that warning signs may have been missed but they weren't the "goth lifestyle" or choice of video games.
With regard to liberal "anything goes" lifestyles as compared with some others, I'll still pick ours hands down any day of the week. When's the last time someone was stoned to death for adultery in the US?

Exactly. So to blame it on a lack of religious conviction as Mike Hukabee did (and you endorsed) is pointless. Guess what. This is America. Not everyone believes in the same God or in some cases any God at all. So to imply you must do so to be free from bodily harm, is to me, insane.
Everyone should be safe in school, whether you believe in God or not!

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

It COULD BE considered discrimination.... Always and never are both rarely applicable conditions. I would get an opinion from the department/company/district attorney rather than rely on the instructors at the fire academy (or police academy) in matters such as this.
In reviewing the above, the following was also found (Article 23-A NYS Corrections Law):
So, you could refuse to allow someone to join if the above conditions exist.
This leads me to other questions on the topic... Do you hire everyone who applies for membership? Do you ask for and interview references? Do you review employment/educational history to make sure the person is a good candidate for membership/employment? A criminal history is only one reason to disqualify someone for membership.

It COULD BE considered discrimination.... Always and never are both rarely applicable conditions. I would get an opinion from the department/company/district attorney rather than rely on the instructors at the fire academy (or police academy) in matters such as this.
In reviewing the above, the following was also found (Article 23-A NYS Corrections Law):
So, you could refuse to allow someone to join if the above conditions exist.
This leads me to other questions on the topic... Do you hire everyone who applies for membership? Do you ask for and interview references? Do you review employment/educational history to make sure the person is a good candidate for membership/employment? A criminal history is only one reason to disqualify someone for membership.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

From the same article about the incidents in China...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k
The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.
If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?
We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.
Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

I would agree to all of that
Also, I would probably say that locking down is effective in most circumstances, but we should try to plan for all circumstances, not just most of them. Even if it is as simple as keeping an object near the door that could be used as a prop or barricade, or if you have interconnecting rooms, moving between them if someone tries to go into one of them.

I couldn't agree with you more but before you attack the issue with policy have you tried revising the driver training and/or providing some supervision to those revving up the Q at 3 AM? While the notion of disciplinary action is often lost in the volunteer sector, it can still work. Tell a driver and/or officer that they're going to lose their driving privileges for a month for such infractions (or something to that effect).

At last, some GOOD news today....

Nice job Trooper/RN!

At last, some GOOD news today....

Nice job Trooper/RN!